question about wait on call

bostonrpgmania · Post by **bostonrpgmania** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:39 am

The wait on call command has nothing to do with the board game. It merely tells the currently active mode to wait until the player manually "calls" it from the other mode or F3.
The interface is explained in detail in both the tutorial and the manual.

---> something that I dont understand is that

for example, when I issue an order to a titan, it never respond. When I push wait and then on call, it suddendly execute the order that I odered previously.

I thought that wait and then on call ---> if I give him an oder titan activated

But it seems what happens is that

issue order--wait --on call then something happens...

This is what makes me totally confused

Pleasee hlp

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:41 am

You did read the turn system guide ?

There are two command modes for each unit, attack and move. If you order RUN in move mode your titan will move as soon as the game time advances to the second his RUN will complete. If your unit has no valid attack command in the queue the attack menu will pop up. If you order WAIT ON CALL or any other valid WAIT command in attack mode the game time will increase and your titan will move. If you press CALL MOVE in attack mode you will cancel your move order and your titan will not move. Instead the move mode menu will pop up. So if you want to see a moving titan give a move order and set attack to WAIT ON MOVE or WAIT ON CALL. WAIT ON MOVE will set the attack mode to be inactive (wait) until the move completes. WAIT ON CALL will make it inactive until you either press CALL ATTACK in move mode menu or with F3.

Try to grasp that the game is managing a time queue were each unit has two entries, one for move and one for attack. Each entry does stand for the second the corresponding mode will be executed. There is only one active unit at a time and this active unit will have to give either an attack or move command.

Expl. Its game second 150

150 Unit A MOVE
151
152
153
154 Unit B MOVE
155 Unit B ATTACK
156
157 Unit A ATTACK

In 150 Unit A will get its move mode menu. The player does order a RUN (15 secs to finish). Next game time will increase until the next valid action pending which is in 154.

In 154 the queue looks like this :

154 Unit B MOVE (AI)
155 Unit B ATTACK (AI)
156
157 Unit A ATTACK
.
.
165 Unit A MOVE (run ordered in 150)

Lets ignore unit B as it will get its orders from the computer.
In 157 the attack mode menu will pop up for unit A. If it does press CALL MOVE it will cancel the run which is not completed !!!! So it should order WAIT ON MOVE to set the attack mode to happen in the same second the move will finish (165).

I can't explain it better, sorry. Its so simple yet completely different from the standard turn systems.

bostonrpgmania · Post by **bostonrpgmania** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:17 pm

Ah!!
Now it makes perfect sense!
This should have been included in the manual.
(and tutorial as well. Tutorial is not good at all in explaining this concept)
I am really thank you for you to help me about the issue.
As I have said in another thread, I am honored to have the developer himself to answer my silly question so kindly.
Thank you very much.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:12 am

In a way, it is explained in the manual (just like how to load a campaign map is). Check for example pages 19, 26, 30, 31, and the move mode section. It is not exactly "in your face", but it helps.
The tutorial *does* explain this quite well, so does the turn system guide.
Maybe you just didn't understand them?

bostonrpgmania · Post by **bostonrpgmania** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:06 am

No I dindnt understand them well as is written in the manual
Due to the conventional TB game system, I thought I can switch between move and combat mode as I needed at my discretion
This caused a lot of problem in understanding this new mechasnism.
Now it makes perfect sense to me.
But it is quite apparent that some of seasoned gamers like Desk top general and a reviewer ( gamerankings.com--> you will find a reviewer who gave this game very low rating of 42%) got the same frustration as I did.
I know that this game has a lot of followers and that was the reason I purchased this game but that does not necessarily means that this game is very user friendly for those who never played share ware version

I really do appreciate all the help that I received from this forum, especially developer himself

Maybe I will return with more silly questions in the future

NefariousKoel · Post by **NefariousKoel** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:52 am

That's the prime part of the game system is the two modes at the same time. I didn't think it was explained well in the manual either, but figured it out during the tutorial.

IMO - it would be most user friendly if you just stated - 'there are two modes you can do at once. You need some kind of order on each one in order for the game to continue.'

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:08 am

Modes are explained on page 26 under Action Modes in the manual. section 05

bostonrpgmania · Post by **bostonrpgmania** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:14 am

Whoops
I am not saying that they are not explained in the manual
but they were very difficult to understand
especially those who were quite accustomed to conventional turn based system.....

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:46 pm

Well, if that means all games that have a new approach to it will have low ratings, what does that tell you about reviewers - especially if they are so convinced they'll tackle it anyway and don't RTFM? I think it was well advertised that the system was completely different from anything out there... That's why there's a sticky thread with the turn system guide in it, to complement the tutorial and the manual (which, in turn, kinda complement themselves).
The # of followers, the user-friendliness and the turn system aren't necessarily dependent on each other, are they?
Anyways, in convencional TBs you can't always switch between move and attack at will.

NK, check page 26 (like I and rosary told already), 1st and 2nd lines of the 1st paragraph, and 3rd~5th lines of the 2nd paragraph. Sounds pretty clear to me. The "demonstration" is then given in the tutorial.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:22 pm

I guess that having played 300+ games isn't an advantage to grasp the turn concept of TOS. The brain is fixed on conventional RTS and TB. We at Vicious Byte weren't completely aware of this problem as we played the system since Mechforce. Therefore I wish we had put even more effort in explaining the system. Seems some potential customers with less patience are confused to the point were they do return the game.

bostonrpgmania · Post by **bostonrpgmania** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:37 pm

Larkin, Thanks for understanding my situation.

It would have been much helpful if this new system was explained in the manual as you did in the post.
I learned a lot from this forum but if they were in the manual, my initial learning cost could have been reduced a lot.

Also some tips (some are found in this forum) for the first combat for the newbie would be a welcome thing as well.
For example, for my first battle, my titans just tried to stand up after falling several times and got destroyed. Thus some warnings about this situation would be a very useful thing even though it is obvious for some.

---Before issuing orders when you have multiple titan, there is a popup saying who will received the order. Will there be any way to know who will actually move after I issue orders to that titan?

Thank you!!

Peter Why · Post by **Peter Why** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:02 am

I don't think I understand that last line: could you expand it a little, please? The Move/Attack pattern does become completely natural after a while .. your previous experience with other systems is probably getting in your way.

bostonrpgmania · Post by **bostonrpgmania** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:26 am

Hi
My question is that we know which titan is receiving orders but we do not know which titan will move next. Is there any way to check the sequence of move (turn) for each titain in my group (or enemy included?)

Ducados · Post by **Ducados** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:47 am

bostonrpgmania wrote:
---Before issuing orders when you have multiple titan, there is a popup saying who will received the order. Will there be any way to know who will actually move after I issue orders to that titan?

Thank you!!

Yes, intuition

You can easily calculate which of your titans is moving/attacking next, cause you know when did it start an action, and for how long will it last.
With enemies is more difficult, as you don´t know which action are they performing, but experience will help you to ALMOST guess it:
Move is easier, as you know what are they doing, the speed of the titan (mostly depends on his weight/chassis) and the terrain.
Attack is harder, cause you must guess which action are they doing: scan, toggle shield, moving torso, launch flares, repairing, ecm or simply wait on something, and many times it depends on the efficiency of the jock on a certain skill; but as I told you, experience in battlefield will help you a lot.

Keep asking if you don´t understand anything, if reviewers did it, maybe they would become good reviewers, but it´s very easy to test a game in 5 minutes, don´t undertand it, and throw many people´s job throught the window, and even more in this game, that as you said, the developer himself is always there to help anyone.

Thanks Larkin

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:55 am

The patch will have a new list of what your team is doing available with the '9' key. You can check the status of each single teammate with '1' - to '8' already. At the button of the first page actions are listed.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:16 am

With 300 titles under one's belt, I'd guess one would be much more "adept" at any type of game...

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:28 pm

Would a pdf of all the 'stickies' on the forum be helpful?

bostonrpgmania · Post by **bostonrpgmania** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:49 am

Thanks again!

Suggestions from total newb.
It would have been great if you put in one or two small campaign for inexperienced squad to gain XP point
I think it would be much more fun than playing unrelated battles to gain XP to tackle some campaigns.
I thought Deep Core may be a good starting point but I found (despite the rookie level it suggests) it is relatively a difficult mission for the ready made squad that came with the game.

As my nick name suggests, I have quite an experience with traditional fantasy roleplaying but this modern warfare is quite new to me so figuring out what ability is need at the start may be a overwelming experience. In that case it would have been great if I could use well balanced inital squad to understand the game better....

BTW, now I am gradually enjoying this new system. It reminds me of
'jagged alliance" which I really enjoyed

cheers
bostonrpgmania

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:55 am

There is a balanced initital squad which should be able to master Deep Core. Not perfect but ok.

I attached as I heard you did loose yours in combat

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:18 pm

Deep Core is already for tottally noobs. It's made to be as easy as it gets. My advice, use it only to get a feel for the game, not as the starting point for your custom squad.
The 1st campaign should be played in the initial stages of a squad. That's what its difficulty level says. Small campaigns to tackle the campaigns?! Huh, right. Why don't you try random maps, with your team set to Champion and the AI set to Rookie? You *can't* lose that way. I think.
The squad that came with the game is fine. Nice skill development, nice choice of titans. It may not be what you'd choose according to your play style, but it seems you're still trying to find your play style - so it's not really important.