Fun with newbs

[Taiko]

ok, just got the game, looks promising. Started by playing the tutorial. Get to the part about killing the biulding. did that no sweat. Game says go to hex 11,11 using either manual or automove. Being the lazy sod that I am I use automove. That takes me right through yon building I just destroyed. Of course I fail the pilot roll and fall down. I spend the next 500 seconds or so trying to get up and failing each time. and of course I damage myself every time. SoI finally kill myself.

What did I do wrong or was I missing something? This is kinda annoying. I'm gonna try the tutorial again while waiting on an answer.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

hmm... can you give me a little more info. Are you getting a pop-up screen when you make a skill check then you are failing the roll OR are you perhaps hitting the call move button from the attack menu (alot of people seem to try 'calling move' as a result of not fully grasping the call function and the unique duel attack/move modes)

[Taiko]

Not sure what I was doing, probably the second thing you were saying. I just retried the tutroial and did much better. gotta get used to the On Call feature. Man that was frustrating. Thanks for the reply.

[LarkinVB]

Doing stand up in move mode and call move in attack mode is a good way to slowly commit suicide. Don't get it why newbs like it this way instead of fighting the enemy [&:] ?

[Thorgrim]

I'm wondering why you had to take the piloting skill check... going through a destroyed building doesn't require a check. Did you break automove or something?

[Taiko]

I think the deal is that I fell down in the building and then tried to move forward without getting up. That would be a bug in the programming if so. I did it in Deep Core once or twice. Sigh. It has to do when you are down and trying something. Not sure what yet.

[Rei Kiryu]

Usually when you're down all the move buttons (run, walk, dodge etc.) are locked out until you stand up again.

If you're having trouble standing up normally, try rising to a crouch first, then stand up.
You have to make 2 skill checks then, but they're easier to pass.

[LarkinVB]

ORIGINAL: Taiko

I think the deal is that I fell down in the building and then tried to move forward without getting up. That would be a bug in the programming if so.

I REALLY doubt that.

[Peter Why]

If it happens again, save it, then put a note here on the forum. Before the hacker trouble we were able to post saved games as zip files, but this isn't possible at the moment, but one of us will give you an email address to send the save game to, so we can have a look at what's happening.

[Mordred]

TOS is not an easy game to get accustomed to. Part of that comes from its timebased move/attack mode selection. A new is quite pushed to the limits when presented by 5+ ways to switch to movemode/attackmode whilst under fire (at this point i started reading the handbook ^^). The squad generation with no way to undo spent poinst isn't much better either. If you know what you are doing, its ok, but if you don't your screwed.

However it offers quite some neat tactical finnesses to have move/attack modes that get worked trough simultaneously. But i wonder if not much of this mode switching could be automated... naturally you want attack mode when enemy units show up (there are exceptions, i know). I am not really deep into this game, but to me it seems, based on the given situation there are only a few possibilities where a choice actually is useful (for an example: when walking into a repair bay, yo can wait for repairs or continue, a message window with the choice would be just as good).

Also its quite annoying to have to wait during a fight for weapon/heat, and everytime to have select the wait for xxx, and bringing up the weapons window up each time (yeah i know hotkey 'x'). Also a 'fire all weapons that are in range' button would be good i guess.

Whilst TOS is a very good game and has depth most games lack these days i belive there can be a lot done to enhance gameplay GUI-wise (making interactions shorter and gameplay faster).


About my experiences with the tutorial mission... first i wondered how i lock on that building (timer, right, i had no idea it takes 4 seconds and wondered why i couldn't fire my guns in attack mode). Naturally i tried to destroy it by jumping into it ^^
Of course by that time i could use my weapons again, even if i was not sure why.

Ok... so far so good... the next thing was jumping into the water to destroy that unarmed training-mech. Of course i fell. Ok, i need to get up ? How do i get up ? By this time i payed more attention to the text windows, so i tried to get up into a crouching position. Of course nothing happened instantly. I think this was where i actually grasped how mode-switching and timed commands work. Took me five tries to get up nevertheless (damaging my mech). So i though to end this quickly and decided to engage with melee weapons. Another jump. I came down on the adjacent field (of course not quite in range for melee weapons, hey i am a noob^^). However a second mech spotted mine, and it was ARMED ^^ I failed the skill check - crashed on my butt again, this time under ak-fire. Loosing a good deal of armor again i got up. I ignored the first mech, and took out the second from my current position (more dammage). After that i finished the training dummy, and walked up to the repair bay. I rearmed and repaired. Then i made my way to the exit zone... of course i met the enemy mech... quite a tough for a newb. I think the killing blow came as i was totally overheated and out of ballistic ammo - i decided to ram it. It however did the same. I dont know how the program handles this special case, but it wasn't me who was lying on the ground this time. I decided this was the prefect time to test if DVA works in this game similar to battletech...

Its a good game all in all. Work a little on the user interface however, and see if this mode-switching cant be handled by the cpu somehow.

Well i have to practice a little and build a somewhat decend squad but i hope to meet some of you on the battlefield soon^^

[Thorgrim]

The tutorial has been tweaked for the 1.2 patch, for clarity.

As soon as you get the hang of the interface, you'll see it works very well. There are reasons it works the way it does, not all apparent.

[Mordred]

Yes, surely there are many things i don't know, but if i (to grasp one of the various examples) pilot a dammaged mech (titan, whatever ^^) which has only one operational weapon left, i wonder why i am presented with a sub-menu which enables me to select to wait for recycling 'any', ballistic, all, etc... i mean, come on - i only have one operational weapon, so the choice should be not too hard (and maybe thats one or two additional lines of code to check for this special case). But that are minor glitches at best, i guess a little finetuning should fix those things.

[happybjorn]

I believe the recycle option being questioned is actually wait for 'next' available weapon of any type. Granted I can't see the code from where I'm sitting, but I do see how it functions in the game and can't imagine it being implimented any more elegantly.

Also, the example seems to indicate a functional weapon system of some kind, which tends to mean other weapons (e.g. punch, kick, charge) are still functioning, even if they aren't currently in range. Recycle time doesn't apply to the few situations I can think of where you have *only* one operational weapon, such as self-destructing a titan that has been stipped bare (no limbs or weapon systems left) or, if the pilot isn't skilled enough to self-destruct, a charge attack with a one legged titan w/out jump jets.

[Mordred]

Hmm, ok when kicking and charging are refered as weapon systems... i guess there are a lot of things i don't know ^^

[Kovax]

I was somewhat disappointed not to be able to display both the attack and move menus at the same time. It really ought to show both the current attack and move settings at the very least. The interface is far from intuitive, and I can see why some people have been put off by the steep learning curve and poor documentation, but at least it seems fully functional and relatively bug-free.

I managed to get through the tutorial with only mild damage from a few falls, plus a couple of weapons hits which never breached the armor, but had to call up the text on several occasions to find out how to do really simple things which should have been self-explanatory. My first attempt to create and run a squad turned into sheer slaughter, so I obviously need to learn a little more first. Meanwhile, a lot of the little dots and symbols on the screen are beginning to half make sense, but there is nothing in the manual or tutorial which tells me what they represent, so I have to figure them out by trail and error. This program needs a book, not the little pamphlet that comes with it, and a major rework of the interface. The main meat and potatoes of the program seems to have been well worked out, but the user controls and documentation appear to be tacked on as an afterthought.

I hope their next release is polished a bit more than this, but it looks like this game will have a home on my hard drive until then.

[LarkinVB]

ORIGINAL: Kovax

I hope their next release is polished a bit more than this, but it looks like this game will have a home on my hard drive until then.

Then it will stay for a very long time [;)]

[LarkinVB]

ORIGINAL: Kovax

I was somewhat disappointed not to be able to display both the attack and move menus at the same time. It really ought to show both the current attack and move settings at the very least.

It is displayed at the bottom right.

[Thorgrim]

Which in turn is explained in the little pamphlet [:D] And the little dots and symbols.
'9' displays the full squad's actions.