Ships too Fragile in AE???

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Charles_22
No, he presented a scenario that puts the entirity of the English, or the entirity of the USA against them, when it just wasn't possible for so long. IJ was a gross underdog still, against what it ended up facing, but not even approaching the underdog status of the numbers he presented. If it didn't get to the front, it's worthless for the purposes of this game. Now if you want to make a fictitious game where somehow IJ beats all the odds and is attacking where those allied extra forces are, okay, but not if we're talking IJ being on the historic defensive as she so often was during WITP, which means those forces had to move to IJ territories or they were worthless in fighting IJ.

I think the numbers presented were to prove a point, that Japan was outclassed. Japan had an initially advantageous strategic position and benefited from the diversion of resources by the US and the UK to Europe. The outcome however couldn't really be in question, especially once the focus on Europe was no longer necessary. This doesn't change the fact that while Japan had to end up on the defensive, it was extremely fanatical about playing defense and exacted a very significant toll that called into question whether defeating her would be something the US could afford casualty-wise.

either IJ or germany. Why if Britain and the USA were all so strong against them, then why did the USA throw the USSR into the scene when things were very bad for IJ? I mean it's not like they couldn't throw their entire weight into that theatre then, and yet they're still worried about IJ Chinese forces? If you can get everything you have, into that theatre, and expect multiplied success, then why have need of the USSR? They just didn't want to throw their full weight into the Pacific, that's why, so if you can't or won't throw your full weight there, all that extra strength isn't being used and therefore is irrelevant and just makes more security for guarding against german partisans in europe, at least for the purposes of this game.

I think the USSR's involvement had more to do with politics and the attempt to make Japan's position so hopeless that she would surrender. The USSR also had its own interests against Japan and at that point in the war, Stalin could not be denied. The US was prepared to throw its full weight against Japan, but it was hoping for a surrender that would avoid the terrible cost of actually invading the Japanese home islands. US and Allied troops and ships were already moving to the Pacific and some had already moved when the surrender brought on by the atomic bombs made the final invasion unnecessary.

Regards,

- Erik

Good points. Even if the USA and GB made peace with IJ, IJ knew she was in trouble when she was going against a nation that a possible high rate of casualties would affect that enemy very little. I wonder how much of IJ's strategy played into the fact that the real war was in europe? They couldn't count too much on the USA concentrating over there though. I got the feeling, that even if Hitler didn't declare war on the USA, that the USA would had done it within 3 months on Germany. As badly as revenge was wanted against IJ, I think we knew better than to put everything against them and that they weren't too much of a threat to mainland europe or mainland USA.

[Hornblower]

The wiser folks in Japan should have, or perhaps did, realize they where in trouble when they weren’t approached with peace feelers by the time of mid-42.  Those requiring more of obvious sign would have looked to the SouthPac when in late ’43 the IJNAF and IJAAF in that region we’re pounded to dust by 2nd generation US planes and very good US pilots.
 
For those in Japan who were basically brain dead, the loss of the Gilbert and Marshall Islands in 4 Months and the appearance of a vast 5th fleet should have been the final “Ah, I think we’ve overestimated ourselves and bit off considerably more then we can chew.”
 
I think the greatest mistake was the unwillingness of Japan to back out of China and Indo-China.  That as we know caused the Oil embargo- and that need for the oil caused the dive into the DEI.  That and the assumption – which I must say seemed very good at the time – that Germany would knock out Russia then turn back on Britain.