GD1938 Game 23

[cpdeyoung]

The United States understands the Soviet concern. Since Germany will get a phase before the USSR in the month the Finnish Army is disbanded Stavka may decide to enter Finland as soon as possible. There is no time to waste.

FDR

[baloo7777]

The Italian Regia Marina has engaged the Franco-English Naval Forces blockading Italian Ports and hhas had some success, sinking 12 subs, a destroyer II, a light cruiser and a French Battlecruiser, while losing only 2 subs. However, the blockade continues as the enemy has an unmatched advantage in numbers.

[cpdeyoung]

As promised President Roosevelt advised the Finns to disband all their military. The USA has a liaison mission there to support trade with the Finns.

The Finns are in an uncomfortable position, however, so far, there has been no trespass on their borders.

[ironduke1955]

The Swedish and Norwegian fronts have loosened due to amphibious landings at Stockholm and further North near the Nickel and Tungsten mining area's, Oslo is within range of the guns of 4th and 7th Panzer armies.

The Germans have moved 3 Armies to Italy including the 1st SS Panzer one additional Infantry army is on standby if needed.

Again the US causes head scratching in Berlin telling the world that their has been no trespass on Finnish territory, why would there be any trespass Germany is delighted that the Finns are now protected by the US, Germany is currently not in a position to help them, and equally the Soviets must be delighted that the US now sits on their Northern Border.

[cpdeyoung]

The reason the United is concerned with trespass is that the entire Finnish armed forces are disbanded. The Finnish Border Guard posts have been turned into tourist literature stands. The only people in uniform in Finland are the municipal police.

The United States has zero concern with Finnish military affairs. The Soviet Union has but to look across the border to realize the US does not sit on their border. Only Finnish citizens on picnics.

The only deterrent to another nation entering Finland is that it would end American isolationism. The United States has stated that they will not defend Finland, and will make peace if any incident occurs.

It may well be that no one wants to enter Finland, but a few trucks and some infantry could take the country in a month. If the Italians wanted a northern vacation area they could ship some troops and borrow a vessel from Germany and have Finland. It is there for the taking. Perhaps Japan would be interested ... or maybe the USSR?

FDR

[cpdeyoung]

Oops, it has been pointed out that many Finnish musical bands wear uniforms also.

FDR

[LJBurstyn]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

The reason the United is concerned with trespass is that the entire Finnish armed forces are disbanded. The Finnish Border Guard posts have been turned into tourist literature stands. The only people in uniform in Finland are the municipal police.

The United States has zero concern with Finnish military affairs. The Soviet Union has but to look across the border to realize the US does not sit on their border. Only Finnish citizens on picnics.

The only deterrent to another nation entering Finland is that it would end American isolationism. The United States has stated that they will not defend Finland, and will make peace if any incident occurs.

It may well be that no one wants to enter Finland, but a few trucks and some infantry could take the country in a month. If the Italians wanted a northern vacation area they could ship some troops and borrow a vessel from Germany and have Finland. It is there for the taking. Perhaps Japan would be interested ... or maybe the USSR?

FDR

The USSR takes the USA at it's word. But we cannot take the chance that some "unfriendly" major power will take over land so close to our Leningrad. So we will be
sending in some troops to maintain the safety of our borders.

[cpdeyoung]

The United States understands the Soviet concerns.

We welcome an offer to establish normal relations with the Soviet Union after the friction of your operation.

FDR

[ironduke1955]

I am afraid there may be a little to do if the Neutrality of the US is broken in such a way, one the arguments are flawed all players will be aware that a attack on the USA will break neutrality, therefore it is highly unlikely that a "Unfriendly" Major Power will do the US this enormous favour, and if as it seems that this is being done between friendly powers, we have I would say a manipulation of the mods rules similar to the house rules on attacking minor nations friendly to a Major Powers allies. If the Soviet Union and the USA can guarantee to remain enemies for the remainder of the game then this Declaration of war may proceed, any quick peace agreements will smell fishy.

[Bombur]

It seems not fair to me too....but we didn´t implement this house rule in this game

[cpdeyoung]

These are not the old victory conditions.

Frankly I am surprised the Axis was formed at all. We know of no powers friendly to the United States, or any unfriendly either. The United States has no idea where we will go with isolation defeated.

The Soviet Union and the United States have no predisposition be allies. We may or may not.

The United States offered a prompt peace to anyone who would enter Finland, and this will be executed. Germany missed an incredible chance to gain a back door to British positions, and a front doorstep to Leningrad. The Soviets would be very foolish to allow an empty Finland to exist next door. Any Soviet action in Finland is driven by this imperative. There is no quid pro quo of an alliance to follow.

However the USA reserves the right to make any diplomatic arrangements it wishes, without consultation with the German Foreign Office. If the USSR, or any other power, enters Finland we will accept an offer of peace from them, or will offer peace if they do not. We would have done the same for Germany, Italy or Japan.

The USA engineered a situation in Finland where we believed isolationism would be breeched. This was our intention and the nation which entered Finland only a tool.

In another "world" FDR might have put incredible pressure on Japan with sanctions and embargoes, leading to an attack. In this world FDR decided to put the pressure point in Finland.

FDR

[ironduke1955]

So the precedent for future games is that US Isolationism can be ended by "Diplomatic Arrangements" something I would not have considered. Makes you wonder why it has not been used before[:D]

[cpdeyoung]

It was used by Roosevelt - no stinking 60 PP per turn for him!

FDR

[ironduke1955]

Can't say I blame him, however I doubt FDR will be winning any popularity races in Finland, a bullet proof vest may be in order if he visits Finland.

[ernieschwitz]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

It was used by Roosevelt - no stinking 60 PP per turn for him!

FDR

In truth, it can be construed that way. However there was an amount of lobbying too. However if the analog is to be made for FDR and Japan, I must mention that USA defended that piece of land with vigour, and that they might well have fought Japan alone, and never attacked Germany, had it not been for the fact that Hitler DOW'ed USA a few days later. ...

[cpdeyoung]

I just read a book "1941 : Fighting the Shadow War." by Marc Wortman which deals with this period. He makes clear how much Roosevelt wanted America to throw its weight upon the scales, but he knew it was going to be very difficult. The tide was turning against isolationism however. The disbanding of all Finnish forces was intended to force someone, anyone, to release us from isolationism. I have no idea who the "bad guys" are yet.

I really do not have a chance of defending Finland proper, and, frankly, the USA is still not strong enough to deter the three power Axis. I am not kidding when I say I have no plans for my future. The USSR has a very valid chance at victory, but the formation this early of an Axis surprises the USA. We thought Italy and Japan might join the USA in the wait and see camp. Just now we want to become strong enough to matter.

FDR

[baloo7777]

Italy detests the use of the poor people of Finland as pawns in a political game. We do however, understand why the Soviet Union would want to protect itself and make commerce and military agreements with Finland and offer its well respected armed forces as protection, As to the President of the United States surprise that Italy would join with its likeminded neighbors in trade and alliances, it is a good thing we did as the Franco-English surprise attack has brought our nation to the brink of disaster both economically and militarily. We thank our great ally, Germany, for rushing troops and air units to our borders without reservation, or we would no longer be a free people.

Musolini

[cpdeyoung]

The State Department wishes to clarify the US position regarding Finland.

The Finns approached the United States seeking a protector. The US Congress refused the Executive's request to engage in the defense of Finland. The existing Finnish troops could not be reinforced, as no permission could be obtained from a Great Power in Scandinavia or the Baltic area, to allow US troops to join the Finns. This was forbidden by the isolationist Congress anyway.

Not being able to defend the Finns the US advised the Finns to do away with their military and become a pacifist nation. It was widely predicted that the Finns would have a "protectorship" imposed upon them by Germany, Great Britain or the USSR, but such has not been the case. The Finns, far from being pawns are now out of the war, and her troops will not be in battle. If a power does enter Finland and seek volunteers they may enlist, but her current military will not have shed their blood.

----------

As Italy has joined this open forum on diplomacy the State Department wants to point out that the Franco-British declaration of war on Italy may have occurred because of their alliance with Germany. Perhaps if Italy had joined the USA in "wait and see" they would not be in the current conflict. On the other hand perhaps the Franco-British would have chosen war with Italy in either case. We respect all the nations in the current conflict and the multi-cultural USA has deep connections on both sides of this war. We would be pleased to act as brokers in a peace. If we are seen as biased perhaps direct negotiations could be initiated between the warring powers. If this war continues it may expand, and no one wants a Second World War.

FDR

[ironduke1955]

Germany cannot blame the Finns for seeking a protector, Germany also believes that the best power to offer some degree of neutrality to Finland would be the USA. So Germany appeals to the US Congress to reconsider the presidents request to make Finland a US protectorate, after all we are dealing with the democratic expression of a desire for freedom from the Finish people, a thing to cherish not leave to be crushed. And of course it is not for Germany to meddle with internal US politics but it feels as if the international nature of the Finnish request effects the the World and Europe as a whole.

In Norway and Sweden the British are gradually losing their foothold in Scandinavia, the German presence in Northern Italy has been increased.

Germany is heartened that peace in the far east holds, with China and Japan enjoying the fruits of the recent peace treaty, long may the treaty hold.

[baloo7777]

Italy wishes to point out to any country that will listen, that the Franco-British Empire initiated the present war with a surprise attack on the peace loving people of Italy. If a sovereign nation makes trade agreements and has a similar ideology with its neighbor nations, what then gives another nation that may not like that alliance of commerce and ideology the right to attack said nation?
It should be noted that other nations have seen the Franco-British Empires aggression and have decided to throw their lot in with the Italians...most notably the recent alliance of Spain and Italy, or even Portugal turning to the USA to become a protectorate. It is interesting that the US Congress had no problem with Portugal turning to the US for protection, but the same did not hold true for the Finns. Perhaps is time for the US to make good on whatever promises it gave to Finland, as it has in Portugal.