optional rules

[Froonp]

Can someone tell me what this actually means?

"You may save only 1 oil marker (of any value) in each city or port (cumulative) you control and double these limits in your major power's capital (e.g. The Commonwealth can save 16 oil (4 x 4) in London). "

Steve, this one is totaly outdated too, it changed completely in RAW7 August 04.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

[78][Unlimited Breakdown][MWIF addition]
(...)
Everyone agrees on this, right?

I like it the way it is written.
lomyrin query of post #58 will have to be solved though.

Lars' question was about reforming destroyed divisions and transferring the corps/army (that was broken down to make the divisions) from the "Broken Down" pool to the Force pool. Once in the latter, they could be rebuilt.

There are 2 ways to do this: (1) give the players the ability to select which corps is reformed (if any) once a couple of divisions have been destroyed, or (2) automate the process.

I dislike the former because it lends itself to "rules lawyer's abuse" - where the player tries to optimize which units remain in the Broken Down pool versus the Force pool. Instead I propose automating the process where the automation tries to be as equitable as possible. For instance, as soon as 2 divisions are destroyed, the program tries to reform a corps/army from those divisions and transfer it from BDP to FP. The strongest unit in the BDP will be reformed and transferred. If the divisions are too weak to rebuild any of the corps/armies in the BDP, then nothing happens and the program waits for a 3rd division to be destroyed. This all implies that the program will keep track of which divisions have been destroyed (a little destroyed divisions pool, if you will). I don't want to add that to the player interface however. It is something that goes on unseen by the player. Again, I dislike having the players trying to optimize at this micro level. If they want to go to the bother of keeping track of everything on paper and working it out that way, so be it. But building a new form for the interface to provide all the gruesome details of reforming divisions into corps/armies simply to transfer them from the BDP to the FP seems to only be of benefit to the seriously neurotic players.[;)]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Can someone tell me what this actually means?

"You may save only 1 oil marker (of any value) in each city or port (cumulative) you control and double these limits in your major power's capital (e.g. The Commonwealth can save 16 oil (4 x 4) in London). "

Steve, this one is totaly outdated too, it changed completely in RAW7 August 04.

Welcome back. How's the sunburn?

[lomyrin]

Patrice, the rules in your posts of today have been covered and have either already been corrected or are in the process of being corrected by Steve.
 
After  being on vacation there certainly is a lot to catch up with on this list though.
 
Lars

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Can someone tell me what this actually means?
"You may save only 1 oil marker (of any value) in each city or port (cumulative) you control and double these limits in your major power's capital (e.g. The Commonwealth can save 16 oil (4 x 4) in London). "

Steve, this one is totaly outdated too, it changed completely in RAW7 August 04.

Well, I guess I talked too quickly here, I am wrong. You were right in your guesses I think.

[Froonp]

Welcome back. How's the sunburn?

I was in hex 0818 (WiF FE), or 67,34 (MWiF) !
Nice mountains !!!
Great, and no sunburn, a nice suntan instead !!! [8D]
However, extra weight taken as those Corsica people make excellent pork butchery.

[Froonp]

There are 2 ways to do this: (1) give the players the ability to select which corps is reformed (if any) once a couple of divisions have been destroyed, or (2) automate the process.

The automated way is great IMO.

[Froonp]

Seems the easiest solution is to have Synth plants yes/no as one option, and the unrestricted oil savings in ports or cities with the bombing change as one option. If this last option is not in use, the standard oil savings rule would be in force, provide the general oil rule is in effect.

Why anyone would want to use an 'oil depot' option that restricts the use of saved oil and attaches a cost to it is beyond my understanding and this one ought not to be tied to synth plants on or off or even be included at all.

I completely and wholeheartly agree with Lars here.
I was about to write the same things.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I have examined the interaction between the optional rules for saving oil and build points, factory destruction and construction, and synthetic oil plants. This was a messy area in the RAW for WIF FE. Here are my conclusions.

(...)

In summary I propose to eliminate some of the special rules in RAW that deal with interactions between optional rules. I do not propose changing any of the optional rules in and of themselves, only when they are used in combinations. The changes to the interactions I propose are eliminations/simplifications:
(1) no oil depots,
(2) capacity constraints for saving oil and build points are always in effect, and
(3) limits on saving oil points for neutral major powers are always 1 per turn.

I'm ok.
We have decided pretty much the same at our gaming table.
Well, I've decided for the others in fact [:D].

[Froonp]

[34][Railway Movement][RAW 37 s. 11.11.2]
This optional rule reduces the movement cost for land units when they move along a railway. A land unit pays 1 less movement point (with a minimum of 1 movement point) to enter a hex when it moves, or advances after combat, along a railway (but not a road). This reduction occurs after the application of any weather effects.

It may be healthy for the MWiF game to state here that this optional rule was designed for AiF, and was then added to WiF FE. And to underline that AiF was based on a Pacific scaled map where movement was much reduced becase of the map scale. To help making the game less boring, and land movements a little more fluid, this rule was added.
People then sat and said : why not add this to Standard WiF FE ?
In my humble opinion this was a big mistake to do it, and I think that this optional rule is a potential game breaker (think of Russia) that novice people must be aware of.

[Froonp]

[29][Carpet Bombing][RAW 32 s. 11.8]
This optional rule simulates the use of heavy bombers in the role of close air support for front line troops. It is famous for being used to help the Allies break out from the Normandy bridgehead. In WIF, carpet bombing means using your strategic bombing factors to attack land and air units, with the prospect of eliminating them entirely.

I also like the definition of Carpet Bombing found at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing) :
*********************************************
The phrases area bombing and carpet bombing refer to the use of large numbers of unguided gravity bombs, often with a high proportion of incendiary bombs, to attempt the complete destruction of a target region, either to destroy personnel and materiel, or as a means to demoralize the enemy (see terror bombing). The phrase probably is intended to invoke the image of bombs completely covering an area, like a carpet.

Initially, carpet bombing was effected by multiple aircraft, often returning to the target in waves. Nowadays, a large bomber or missile can be used to create the same effect on a small area (an airfield, for example) by releasing a relatively large number of smaller bombs.
*********************************************

The first paragraph could be used in your writeup, removing the link to terror bombing, and the evokation of unguided gravity bombs as 99,99999% of WWII bombs were unguided gravity bombs. I like the way it convey the idea of the deadly carpet.

Also, even if not taking it, please remove the "close air support" notion from your sentence, as carpet bombing is more than that. It is more "high density area bombing".

[Froonp]

[30][Tank Busters][RAW 33 s. 11.9]
(...)
When a tank buster attacks a target unit that is a mechanized, armor, or HQ-A, and extra die is rolled. This is cumulative with surprise and using offensive chits during air actions. For example, during a surprise impulse (+1 die), a tank buster (+1 die) ground striking a mechanized unit with the benefit of an offensive chit (+1 die) during an air action would roll 4 dice.

Maybe also say that the best of the rolled dices is taken, they are not added or anything else between them.

[Froonp]

In sequence of things being included in RAW, the 2D10 tables option predated the 1D10 option 39 blitz bonus. I think the 1D10 bonus was included in the rules after the success of the 2D10 tables had been noticed. The standard RAW option 39 Blitz bonus is not applicable when using the 2D10 since the 2D10 tables has it's own list of bonuses and penalties.

The 2D10 Blitz Bonus is in my opinion a very important part of the 2D10 tables. I also believe that most, perhaps as many as 90% of the experienced players use the 2D10 tables with fractional odds and all bonuses and penalties available in that table.

Once again I agree wholeheartly with Lars here.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
There has been a lot of arguments posed in the WiF discussion list about  the bonuses for Arm and Mech Divisions attacking. When defending those Divs make for a -1 to the attacker versus a -2 for a defending corps, but when attacking there is no corresponding +1/2, the rules still say +1.

Certainly Divs have less power than corps and they ought to only get +1/2 when attacking.
Lars

There were talks at ADG after RAW7 August 04 was issued, and after the said discussions, of changing the rule to reflect this (as well as a few other issues that I would not talk about here).

Steve, if ADG released a new version of RAW while MWiF is still in design stages, with a handfull of identified rule changes (I would do that, as I did in the past for Chris), would you implement them in the MWiF game ?

I know you would be reluctant to do it, but if it is as simple as to change a bonus of the 2d10 CRT, I think it would be worthwhile to do (this Div bonus, while not being a game breaker, is still troublesome in the game).

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
There has been a lot of arguments posed in the WiF discussion list about  the bonuses for Arm and Mech Divisions attacking. When defending those Divs make for a -1 to the attacker versus a -2 for a defending corps, but when attacking there is no corresponding +1/2, the rules still say +1.

Certainly Divs have less power than corps and they ought to only get +1/2 when attacking.
Lars

There were talks at ADG after RAW7 August 04 was issued, and after the said discussions, of changing the rule to reflect this (as well as a few other issues that I would not talk about here).

Steve, if ADG released a new version of RAW while MWiF is still in design stages, with a handfull of identified rule changes (I would do that, as I did in the past for Chris), would you implement them in the MWiF game ?

I know you would be reluctant to do it, but if it is as simple as to change a bonus of the 2d10 CRT, I think it would be worthwhile to do (this Div bonus, while not being a game breaker, is still troublesome in the game).

-1 for movement on rail - I'll leave it as is. Maybe another document is needed that talks about play balance issues and this type of perspective. I do not want the optional rule writeups to include ancillary commentary about the making of the game.

Revise carpet bombing description - ok.

As for including recent changes to the rules - No. They are always changing. Writing code for a moving target is more trouble than benefit. Have you met this girl named Pandora?

[Froonp]

As for including recent changes to the rules - No. They are always changing. Writing code for a moving target is more trouble than benefit. Have you met this girl named Pandora?

You can't say that they are always changing.
They were always changing between 1996 and about 2000, but since then, there wasnearly no change, and RAW7 was not modified since august 2004.
Now we are 2 years more of experience in the gaming of this great game after this date, and I think that if some fiddling of the rule was happening on the ADG side, the MWiF game would be much more value added if it was in line with these.

It would be awkward to have a game sold in (say) 2007 with a 2004 set of rules, if a 2006 set of rules existed, wouldn't it ? But I an NOT saying that ADG will issue a new RAW, this I do absolutely not know.

Was this Pandora girl pretty and intelligent [8D] ? Because if she was, all the trouble would be worth the prize IMO. Nothing's more rewarding that a pretty & intelligent girl [;)].

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Pandora intelligent? No, she opened the box and let loose all the pestilence and troubles in the world. (Greek myth).

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is another splattering of optional rule writeups for you to critique.
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[50][Twin Engined Fighters][RAW 53 s. 14.3.2]
This optional rule reduces the air-to-air combat effectiveness of twin engine fighters when in air-to-air combat with single engine fighters.

In air-to-air combat during the day, all front fighters with an orange air-to-air rating achieve one result less than normal when the front enemy fighter in the combat does not have an orange air-to-air rating. In these cases an AX result becomes a DX, a DX becomes an AA, an AA becomes a DA and so on. A DC result is unaffected and remains a DC result.
=============================================================
[51][Fighter Bombers][RAW 54 s. 14.3.2]
This optional rule only affects the air-to-air rating of fighter-bombers that are flying as bombers. The extra weight of the bombs affected their ability to perform as fighters.

Reduce the air-to-air rating of the front bomber by 1 if it is a fighter-bomber.
=============================================================
[52][Outclassed Fighters][RAW 55 s. 14.3.2]
This optional rule diminishes the value of fighters with low air-to-air factors that act in a support role during air-to-air combat. Generally every fighter other than the lead fighter helps increase the effective air-to-air rating of the lead fighter. In reality, fighters that were markedly outclassed were not of much help.

Back-up fighters only increase your air-to-air strength if their modified air-to-air rating is at least half that of the modified rating of the front opposing fighter. This does not apply to back-up carrier planes.
=============================================================
[71][Cruisers In Flames][RAW 75 s. 22.4.6]
This optional rule adds a lot more cruisers to the game, all of which are light cruisers. The major effect of adding the light cruisers is that they provide ASW defense against submarines. Without them, carriers and battleships are assumed to have intrinsic light cruisers attached to them which provide ASW support. With this optional rule in use, the light cruisers are explicitly added to the counter mixed and the ASW defense of carriers and battleships by themselves is zero. When playing with the Light Cruisers option, every CL and CAA of WWII is depicted in the counter mix.

For game play purposes, the additional cruisers are treated the same as previous light cruisers. However, now each carrier and battleship has an ASW factor of 0 and, if playing with oil cruisers and light cruisers only count as a quarter of a unit during final reorganization.

Another change is that rough weather slows down the smaller ships. This is implemented during the naval movement step only, and each light cruiser, destroyer flotilla, naval transport, and convoy that moves into 1 or more sea areas in blizzard or storm has its movement allowance and range reduced by 1 for that step (note that this may prevent the unit from entering its final sea area).

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is another splattering of optional rule writeups for you to critique.
=============================================================
[50][Twin Engined Fighters][RAW 53 s. 14.3.2]
This optional rule reduces the air-to-air combat effectiveness of twin engine fighters when in air-to-air combat with single engine fighters.

In air-to-air combat during the day, all front fighters with an orange air-to-air rating achieve one result less than normal when the front enemy fighter in the combat does not have an orange air-to-air rating. In these cases an AX result becomes a DX, a DX becomes an AA, an AA becomes a DA and so on. A DC result is unaffected and remains a DC result.
=============================================================
[51][Fighter Bombers][RAW 54 s. 14.3.2]
This optional rule only affects the air-to-air rating of fighter-bombers that are flying as bombers. The extra weight of the bombs affected their ability to perform as fighters.

Reduce the air-to-air rating of the front bomber by 1 if it is a fighter-bomber.
=============================================================
[52][Outclassed Fighters][RAW 55 s. 14.3.2]
This optional rule diminishes the value of fighters with low air-to-air factors that act in a support role during air-to-air combat. Generally every fighter other than the lead fighter helps increase the effective air-to-air rating of the lead fighter. In reality, fighters that were markedly outclassed were not of much help.

Back-up fighters only increase your air-to-air strength if their modified air-to-air rating is at least half that of the modified rating of the front opposing fighter. This does not apply to back-up carrier planes.
=============================================================
[71][Cruisers In Flames][RAW 75 s. 22.4.6]
This optional rule adds a lot more cruisers to the game, all of which are light cruisers. The major effect of adding the light cruisers is that they provide ASW defense against submarines. Without them, carriers and battleships are assumed to have intrinsic light cruisers attached to them which provide ASW support. With this optional rule in use, the light cruisers are explicitly added to the counter mixed and the ASW defense of carriers and battleships by themselves is zero. When playing with the Light Cruisers option, every CL and CAA of WWII is depicted in the counter mix.

For game play purposes, the additional cruisers are treated the same as previous light cruisers. However, now each carrier and battleship has an ASW factor of 0 and, if playing with oil cruisers and light cruisers only count as a quarter of a unit during final reorganization.

Another change is that rough weather slows down the smaller ships. This is implemented during the naval movement step only, and each light cruiser, destroyer flotilla, naval transport, and convoy that moves into 1 or more sea areas in blizzard or storm has its movement allowance and range reduced by 1 for that step (note that this may prevent the unit from entering its final sea area).

Flawless.

The first three optional rules fall into a category which I mentally refer to as "why would anyone object to this?" There are a substantial number of rules that seem to add realism while adding only low or medium amounts of additional complexity. Should they be flagged in some way, maybe in the intro to options?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I forgot to list these two new writeups for the optional rules.
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[43][Partisans][RAW 46 s. 13.1]
This optional rule adds partisan units to the game. Partisans played a major role in WW II, threatening supply lines and other weak points behind the front lines and requiring the major powers to deploy troops on garrison duty in conquered countries. However, by selecting this optional rule, players add quite a bit of complexity to the sequence of play.

Partisans are units that appear in conquered countries, and, in some cases, where fighting continues. There are a few countries that have partisans no matter who controls them; they fight against both the Axis and the Allies. Partisans can attack, block movement, and occupy hexes.

Here are some good things about having partisans on your side:
∙ they cost nothing to build or maintain,
∙ they are always in supply,
∙ enemy major powers can't use any resources or factories in a hex a partisan occupies,
∙ enemy factories and resources can't enter or pass through a hex a partisan occupies,
∙ enemy units can't enter a hex a partisan occupies, except by overrunning it,
∙ enemy major powers can't trace supply into or through a hex a partisan occupies,
∙ units of the partisan's nationality (only) can debark, or paradrop, into the hex the partisan occupies without having to fight a notional unit,
∙ enemy aircraft and naval units are overrun if a partisan is placed in or moves into a hex,
∙ stored oil, oil resources, and blue factories may be destroyed (if the corresponding optional rules are in effect).

Here are some bad things about having partisans on your side:
∙ their arrival is random - you may or may not have partisans show up,
∙ they are weak units with limited mobility,
∙ you only get partisans if a country you control has been invaded or conquered by the enemy,
∙ only some countries get partisans,
∙ there is a maximum to the number of partisans that can be active in a country,
∙ partisans have no ZOC outside of the hex they occupy,
∙ their presence in a hex does not change who controls the hex,
∙ no partisans appear if the garrison level for the country is high enough.

Partisans arrive during the first step of the End of Turn Stage in the sequence of play. This can be especially devastating since at the end of a turn many units are passive and most vulnerable to partisans. The process for which partisans arrive and how many is determined by the program rolling dice (i.e., randomly) and cross referencing the partisan table. Even then no partisans appear unless the randomly selected countries meet the necessary preconditions for partisans. The preconditions are: the country has either been conquered or at least 1 of its hexes contains an enemy unit.

The probability of partisans arriving increases if partisans are already present (per partisan present) and decreases if there are enemy units present (on garrison duty). To be counted as being on garrison duty, the unit must be: (1) active, (2) not in an enemy ZOC, and (3) on the opposite side from the side that will control the partisan. The garrison value of a unit depends on its size and type:
∙ ½ for divisions,
∙ 0 for carrier air units and all naval units,
∙ 2 for armor, mechanized, mountain, SS, and HQ-A units (corps/army size), and
∙ 1 for all other land and air units.

The program calculates the garrison values for each country and uses that information when deciding whether partisans will arrive. Note that, unlike neutrality pact garrison values, anti-partisan garrison values are never doubled, halved, or modified by entry markers.

Partisans in Manchuria, Korea, Indo-China, India, Burma, Malaya, and NEI are controlled by the nearest major power currently at war with the major power that controls the country. The nearest is the major power whose capital city is closest to the minor's capital city. If no major powers are at war with the controlling major power, then the nearest major power on the other side runs the partisans. [The above list of countries are those where the partisans were fighting for independence and fought any occupying army, both Axis and Allied.]

Partisans in most countries (all except Manchuria, Korea, Indo-China, India, Burma, Malaya, and NEI) are controlled by the major power that controlled their country before it was conquered (or still control it if it isn't yet conquered). Partisans in China are always communist Chinese units. French partisans are controlled by the Free French unless it is completely conquered, after which they are controlled by the Soviets. [This paragraph reflects the more common situation where the partisans fought against whoever invaded the country. They had the expectation that the side they supported would eventually liberate their country from the invader. Indeed, if a player chooses to not liberate a country that could be liberated, the country’s partisans fight against the new ‘conqueror’ (the same as Manchuria, Korea, et al) until it is liberated.]

Partisans are drawn randomly from the partisan force pool. There is a maximum of 3 partisan units per country, and since they are corps sized units, the maximum number of partisan units in a hex is 2. The composition of the partisan force pool changes year to year which changes the probability of drawing weak, weaker, or very weak partisan units. The strength of the units you have drawn previously has no effect on the probability of what you will draw next. In particular, there is a limitless pool of partisans to draw from - subject to the 3 unit maximum per country. [This section of the partisan rule is quite different from WIF FE because there is no longer any restriction due to the counter mix.]

The sequence in which partisans are placed on the map is determined by the partisan table and the program enforces the order in accordance with that table. The controlling major power can place a partisan unit in any enemy controlled hex in the partisan’s country that is not in an enemy ZOC. If there are no such hex, the partisan does not arrive.

After being placed on the map partisans may be moved like other land units during each impulse. They may move anywhere within their home country; but they can never leave their home country. Partisans only co-operate with other units from their own country. 1 is added to each partisan unit's combat factors if it is defending in a forest or jungle hex. Shattered partisans are destroyed instead of being shattered. Partisans are always at war with the conquering major power (and it's aligned minors) even if the partisan's controlling major power is not at war with the conqueror.

Partisans are not removed from the map neither when their country nor their controlling major power has been conquered. Even if their controlling major power has been completely conquered, partisans can still move and fight every turn as if their controlling major power had chosen a land action.
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[44][Isolated Reorganization Limits][RAW 47 s. 13.5]
This optional rule denies reorganization to isolated units during the final reorganization step (part of the End of Turn Stage).

Units can be reorganized from passive to active during the final reorganization step of the End of Turn Stage, only if they can trace a basic supply path to a primary supply source for the unit. The path can include overseas supply paths and it can be of any length. Effectively, this denies the automatic reorganization to isolated units.