1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids)

[Ketza]

I have ran pretty much the whole game with artillery SUs set at 50%. I am clearly no expert but I have not really had an AP issue going into mid 43. I was hit by the 47mm bug as you were also. Not sure how much of an impact setting things at 50% has but in your case I do not think it will hurt.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I wonder what would happen to your manpower if you start disbanding Artillery Units.

I might disband the ones that use divisional artillery pieces; I bet your Manpower pool empties a bit if you do that

With "divisional artillery pieces" I assume you mean those that are also used by infantry divisions?

I might try some of that, though In general, I don't like having to fiddle with things like that, as I think the production system should be able to balance things without the player having to do odd things like starving the artillery of equipment. I think artillery should be more bang for the bucks than riflemen. Artillery after all is the cause of more than half of the casualties in WW2.

[karonagames]

I might try some of that, though In general, I don't like having to fiddle with things like that, as I think the production system should be able to balance things without the player having to do odd things like starving the artillery of equipment. I think artillery should be more bang for the bucks than riflemen. Artillery after all is the cause of more than half of the casualties in WW2.

There is a bit of a catch 22 here. Yes artillery should cause more casualties, but for the purposes of modified CVs, artillery has a value of 0 and infantry a value of 3. From 1943 onwards, Axis artillery is pretty much taken out of the game as far as combat casualties go because of the disruption from "jabos" and counter-battery fire. If you want a better chance of holding the ground you need all the boots and equipment on the ground that will contribute to the modified CV.

edit: Even support squads are worth more than artillery for modified CV purposes - see chart on pp 309-310.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

I might try some of that, though In general, I don't like having to fiddle with things like that, as I think the production system should be able to balance things without the player having to do odd things like starving the artillery of equipment. I think artillery should be more bang for the bucks than riflemen. Artillery after all is the cause of more than half of the casualties in WW2.

There is a bit of a catch 22 here. Yes artillery should cause more casualties, but for the purposes of modified CVs, artillery has a value of 0 and infantry a value of 3. From 1943 onwards, Axis artillery is pretty much taken out of the game as far as combat casualties go because of the disruption from "jabos" and counter-battery fire. If you want a better chance of holding the ground you need all the boots and equipment on the ground that will contribute to the modified CV.

edit: Even support squads are worth more than artillery for modified CV purposes - see chart on pp 309-310.

I understand the game mechanichs, but I think that is counter-intuitive when comparing with history. IIRC about 80% of allied casualties from D-Day onwards was from German artillery, so despite the jabos etc, they apparently were effective.

[karonagames]

As noted elsewhere, "shooting" casualties account for about a third of casualties, attrition and retreat losses cause the rest, and a "hold" result can generate significant "retreat" losses for the attacker, so the mechanics clearly favour getting the best non-shooting casualties that you can.

It is one of Gary's fundamental design choices.

[krupp_88mm]

forgive me but i dont really understand how sending more "armaments" to artillery stops you form deploying infantry.. the system seems overly liquid, in that you can change machine gun ammo to artillery ammo guns and supplies?

I could understand trucks / fuel limiting supply capabilities or battle multipliers in efficiency, but i thought germany always had a surplus of machine guns and rifles and especially small arms ammo, late in the war they had so many machine guns they wre fitting entire platoons full of nothing but machine guns and panzerfausts

what im saying is shouldnt the men fill out the units anyway, just maybe with less equipment than they needed. i dont think there is ever a reason you shouldn't get a rifle squad as long as you have the men to fill it.

also on the note of artillery.. yeah artillery was so effective i dont think the US would even try to fight most of the time, their main doctrine was just to sit back and shoot artillery willy nilly then roll up about 150 shermans and halftracks with heavy air support to spook out the remaining defenders.. really courageous warriors they were, if the US fought like the russians they would have been in berlin in november 1944

(except for patton that guy was a REAL russian)

[Baelfiin]

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

forgive me but i dont really understand how sending more "armaments" to artillery stops you form deploying infantry.. the system seems overly liquid, in that you can change machine gun ammo to artillery ammo guns and supplies?

I could understand trucks / fuel limiting supply capabilities or battle multipliers in efficiency, but i thought germany always had a surplus of machine guns and rifles and especially small arms ammo, late in the war they had so many machine guns they wre fitting entire platoons full of nothing but machine guns and panzerfausts

what im saying is shouldnt the men fill out the units anyway, just maybe with less equipment than they needed. i dont think there is ever a reason you shouldn't get a rifle squad as long as you have the men to fill it.

also on the note of artillery.. yeah artillery was so effective i dont think the US would even try to fight most of the time, their main doctrine was just to sit back and shoot artillery willy nilly then roll up about 150 shermans and halftracks with heavy air support to spook out the remaining defenders.. really courageous warriors they were, if the US fought like the russians they would have been in berlin in november 1944

(except for patton that guy was a REAL russian)

+1 rifle squad

[The SNAFU]

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

also on the note of artillery.. yeah artillery was so effective i dont think the US would even try to fight most of the time, their main doctrine was just to sit back and shoot artillery willy nilly then roll up about 150 shermans and halftracks with heavy air support to spook out the remaining defenders.. really courageous warriors they were, if the US fought like the russians they would have been in berlin in november 1944

(except for patton that guy was a REAL russian)

Certainly you're not suggesting the US troops were not courageous warriors. If the US fought like the Russians they would have been sending millions of people home in boxes. Yea, that would have been better...

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: The SNAFU
Certainly you're not suggesting the US troops were not courageous warriors.

Er, it sure seems like that is exactly what he is suggesting...I guess slightly ironic from a guy with a little pony avatar?

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: The SNAFU

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

also on the note of artillery.. yeah artillery was so effective i dont think the US would even try to fight most of the time, their main doctrine was just to sit back and shoot artillery willy nilly then roll up about 150 shermans and halftracks with heavy air support to spook out the remaining defenders.. really courageous warriors they were, if the US fought like the russians they would have been in berlin in november 1944

(except for patton that guy was a REAL russian)

Certainly you're not suggesting the US troops were not courageous warriors. If the US fought like the Russians they would have been sending millions of people home in boxes. Yea, that would have been better...

The Western powers tried to min the loses because they cared about the average trooper under their command. They had to answer to the general public. Stalin just did not care he had to answer to no one.

There is a reason the Red Empire fell apart, killing millions of your own poeple before and after WW2 just is not smart.

The Red Machine was spent by 1945.

Pelton

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 198. March 29 1945. Snow.

Soviet exploiting Mech and Tank Corps are making the front in the Carpathians untenable in their latest winter mountain-offensive.

[Tarhunnas]

A view of air losses so far.

[HvB]

I'm surprised to see Ar 234B losses at 100 already considering limited production and minimal susceptability to interception. I believe a little more than 200 were lost historically on both fronts in 44-45. Interesting to see that 50% of Soviet A/C losses were for operational reasons, and that more German A/C were destroyed on the ground than Soviet A/C.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: HvB

I'm surprised to see Ar 234B losses at 100 already considering limited production and minimal susceptability to interception. I believe a little more than 200 were lost historically on both fronts in 44-45. Interesting to see that 50% of Soviet A/C losses were for operational reasons, and that more German A/C were destroyed on the ground than Soviet A/C.

Yes, I was a bit surprised about that as well. The Ar 234 has only been in action for a couple of months, as the AI hadn't assiged them to units automatically, so I changed type manually a couple of months ago. There are only two units flying them.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 199. April 5 1945. Mud.

The Soviet Mountain Mech Winter offensive is continuing to cause trouble in the Carpathians. Map before Axis moves.

On the rest of the front mostly a steady grind with not much interesting happening. There has been no Soviet breakthroughs for many turns now, only a steady push forward of one hex every turn. I think this is due to my reserve tactics coupled with Soviet supply problems. The mud should put an even bigger damper on things now. After mud I plan on retreating 8 or 10 hexes or so, to hopefully put the Soviets in new supply difficulties.

[MechFO]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Turn 198. March 29 1945. Snow.

Soviet exploiting Mech and Tank Corps are making the front in the Carpathians untenable in their latest winter mountain-offensive.

A broad front push over mountain ranges in winter....just wrong on so many levels...

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 200! Treading where no man has gone before (AFAIK).



April 12 1945. Mud.

Not much happening due to the mud.

[IdahoNYer]

Congrats on 200!! Finish line in sight!

[Wuffer]

April and still no sight of sovjet tanks in eastern pruzzia - well done! [:'(]

Would only be fair if this ends as a minor victory for you at least.

Did you like to show the oob's of your surviving formations?

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Turn 200! Treading where no man has gone before (AFAIK).

Congrats! [:)]


But I would say where no man had publicly (i.e. general public AAR) gone before... [;)]


Leo "Apollo11"