Empire of the Sun - DesertWolf101 (J) vs Andy Mac (A)

[DesertWolf101]

Defending Burma

Now that I am pulling back my forces in India I am starting to think a lot more about how I will go about defending in Burma. I would love some advice on how I should go about it. Here are the main questions I have on the issue:

1) Where do I set my main defensive line? My inclination is to defend in the x3 terrain as much as possible, but where? Is the Imphal to Ledo line too risky?
2) I believe the Monsoon kicks off in May. Is this generally more disadvantageous for the attacking allies or the defending Japanese?
3) How easily does supply flow into the Mandalay plain from India?

What else should I be aware off?

[RangerJoe]

Just pull back to Thailand and you won't have to worry about it.[;)]

[PaxMondo]

Actually not bad advice. The issue with Burma is all about Amphib assault south of you (map view). Once the allies wrest control of the seas, Burma is a potential death trap. Thailand not much better. So, its not about the land defense, its prepping for loss of control of the sea and then where are your MLD's.

Hanoi/Haiphong area is a pretty safe place to defend from. Even if the allies land around HK, you should still be able to get your forces east before the RR lines are cut.

Not suggesting you cede everything, but you need an evac plan for everything west of Hanoi that you want to save ... and you should try to save most of your units. Having pulled all those resources out of India/Burma for so many months, the idea is not to lose your army in exchange. If you do, then the allies got the better of it. If you don't, you are in a good position for the late war: you got a lot of resources for your economy AND you have intact forces to defend with.

[Evoken]

Desertwolf has naval superiority for at least 1 more year , abandoning Burma without a fight would only help Andy Mac. So far in my game supply in NE Burma has been really rough , only viable way to supply troops is invading through coastal route , I would put a strong garrison on the one of the JR hexes to road that leads to Prome

[DesertWolf101]

Sound advice Pax, but Evoken is right. As long as I don't mess things up, I should have a notable edge at sea until the end of 1943. Certainly when I no longer feel secure from an attack from the sea I will pull back, but for now I want to hold him in Burma and keep him as far away as possible.

I anticipate he will bring a massive army into Burma so hopefully that will make supplying it even more difficult. Holding the coastal road will definitely be done with strong Japanese forces, what I am struggling a bit with is where to stop him in the hinterland where he could attempt to reach the Mandalay plain by crossing the mountains. Is supplying a large force through those mountains very difficult during the Monsoon?

[jdsrae]

Don’t all roads lead to Prome?

[Evoken]

i am having major supply issue in my game and its not even monsoon season yet

[jdsrae]

I attacked cross country into India through that terrain and just kept dumping supply into Rangoon to keep supply up.
That would be more difficult to do when withdrawing as Allied bombers will probably go after those ships.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Don’t all roads lead to Prome?

Ha yeah seems to be a recurring theme in other AARs. Am currently building its fortifications up as a fall back position.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Evoken

i am having major supply issue in my game and its not even monsoon season yet

Interesting...

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
3) How easily does supply flow into the Mandalay plain from India?

Very-very hard, even if no monsoon. Allies need at least Ramree as a supply dump, or invade in the Rangoon area

[Bif1961]

A map would be helpful is giving any advice in defense of Burma. Supply and control of the sea is always the issue as stated by yourself and others here. I understand your desire to trade space for time and since you anticipate control of the seas for 6-12 more months, then you have time to fall back slower,as long as supplies hold out. I would suggest holding out initially along the river north of Lashio, Mandalay, Magwe to Prome, with garrisons left in Akyab and Cox'Bazar to slow his advance along the coast. Take and hold Ramree Island as he can use that as a major supply base once he has the naval advantage and of course Prome. Once this line is no longer viable, them Moulmein, Tavoy and along that river line and coast to defend against a landing south to cut you off from a road ling to Thailand.

[Ambassador]

Given your situation, I would not abandon Burma without a fight. However, the Imphal line would be hard to defend, as your supply will be much harder to push forward than the Allies’supply. But as long as you have the control of the seas, you could keep forces in Calcutta, if you have enough troops to divert there (and depending on your fort levels). As a Urban Heavy hex, surrounded by rivers on all sides, it can hold some time, and monopolize more troops than you leave there, and represent a threat on Andy’s spearhead. This is IMHO the only way an Imphal-Dimapur line could hold.

As such, Burma doesn’t hold a great importance right now. The Chinese are out, so no need to reopen the supply road to Lashio, and no sane player would dream of liberating China by passing through Lashio/Tsuyung. Fuel production is anecdotal compared to Abadan’s. Supplying the armies will be harder, especially as long as KB looms unchecked. By the time he could have pushed you back to Rangoon/Moulmein, he’ll have CV parity.

And what does it represent to you ? Fuel production is anecdotal compared to Palembang’s. Rangoon has some nice VP, but I don’t think either of you is playing for the points anymore.

So, why attack there ? Beyond India, the Allies need naval parity or superiority to feed a large land force. Moving supplies from India to southern Burma might be much easier than IRL, but it’s still not enough, and KB is a big threat on naval supplying, as you’ve demonstrated countless times. From my point of view, the main reason to do so is to force you to commit troops to defend.

In ‘43, the Allies receive half a dozen good infantry divisions.Andy won’t need them to push you on land, but they may represent a good force to strike at Java/Sumatra at the end of the year, or early ‘44, once he has the CV to cover his attack. Between the USSR and India taking most of your land forces, it may be reasoned that you don’t have many heavy troops to defend the southern DEI (or the Pacific).

Which Allied divisions have you identified in India ?

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

A map would be helpful is giving any advice in defense of Burma. Supply and control of the sea is always the issue as stated by yourself and others here. I understand your desire to trade space for time and since you anticipate control of the seas for 6-12 more months, then you have time to fall back slower,as long as supplies hold out. I would suggest holding out initially along the river north of Lashio, Mandalay, Magwe to Prome, with garrisons left in Akyab and Cox'Bazar to slow his advance along the coast. Take and hold Ramree Island as he can use that as a major supply base once he has the naval advantage and of course Prome. Once this line is no longer viable, them Moulmein, Tavoy and along that river line and coast to defend against a landing south to cut you off from a road ling to Thailand.

Some good suggestions here, thanks Bif1961

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Given your situation, I would not abandon Burma without a fight. However, the Imphal line would be hard to defend, as your supply will be much harder to push forward than the Allies’supply. But as long as you have the control of the seas, you could keep forces in Calcutta, if you have enough troops to divert there (and depending on your fort levels). As a Urban Heavy hex, surrounded by rivers on all sides, it can hold some time, and monopolize more troops than you leave there, and represent a threat on Andy’s spearhead. This is IMHO the only way an Imphal-Dimapur line could hold.

As such, Burma doesn’t hold a great importance right now. The Chinese are out, so no need to reopen the supply road to Lashio, and no sane player would dream of liberating China by passing through Lashio/Tsuyung. Fuel production is anecdotal compared to Abadan’s. Supplying the armies will be harder, especially as long as KB looms unchecked. By the time he could have pushed you back to Rangoon/Moulmein, he’ll have CV parity.

And what does it represent to you ? Fuel production is anecdotal compared to Palembang’s. Rangoon has some nice VP, but I don’t think either of you is playing for the points anymore.

So, why attack there ? Beyond India, the Allies need naval parity or superiority to feed a large land force. Moving supplies from India to southern Burma might be much easier than IRL, but it’s still not enough, and KB is a big threat on naval supplying, as you’ve demonstrated countless times. From my point of view, the main reason to do so is to force you to commit troops to defend.

In ‘43, the Allies receive half a dozen good infantry divisions.Andy won’t need them to push you on land, but they may represent a good force to strike at Java/Sumatra at the end of the year, or early ‘44, once he has the CV to cover his attack. Between the USSR and India taking most of your land forces, it may be reasoned that you don’t have many heavy troops to defend the southern DEI (or the Pacific).

Which Allied divisions have you identified in India ?

Not including Indian ones, the Allied divisions I have positively identified in India are the 6th and 7th Australian, 2nd and 18th British, 1st Marine division, and 32nd and Americal US divisions. I am certain he has at least three more US divisions in India too.

I do in fact intend to hold Calcutta in force and will make it very hard for him to take it. Do you think holding the city goes a long way in affecting Allied supply flow to Burma?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Defending Burma

Now that I am pulling back my forces in India I am starting to think a lot more about how I will go about defending in Burma. I would love some advice on how I should go about it. Here are the main questions I have on the issue:

1) Where do I set my main defensive line? My inclination is to defend in the x3 terrain as much as possible, but where? Is the Imphal to Ledo line too risky?
2) I believe the Monsoon kicks off in May. Is this generally more disadvantageous for the attacking allies or the defending Japanese?
3) How easily does supply flow into the Mandalay plain from India?

What else should I be aware off?

The best defense of Burma is the destruction of the Allied in India... [:D]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Sound advice Pax, but Evoken is right. As long as I don't mess things up, I should have a notable edge at sea until the end of 1943. Certainly when I no longer feel secure from an attack from the sea I will pull back, but for now I want to hold him in Burma and keep him as far away as possible.

I anticipate he will bring a massive army into Burma so hopefully that will make supplying it even more difficult. Holding the coastal road will definitely be done with strong Japanese forces, what I am struggling a bit with is where to stop him in the hinterland where he could attempt to reach the Mandalay plain by crossing the mountains. Is supplying a large force through those mountains very difficult during the Monsoon?

Agreed.

My point is that via ground, barring a bad miss step on your part, it is difficult to lose much. It requires encirclement which is easiest done via amphib landing. So long as you own the seas, you are pretty safe. Once you lose that though, it completely flips the analysis: safe havens are hard to find/create ...

[PaxMondo]

dup

[DanielAClark]

I dont see why Andy would invade Burma...there is limited value in doing so. China is already out...and he wont make much progress until he has naval superiority, at which point other, more important targets become more vulnerable.

I would expect Andy to clean out India...then prepare a 'second front' in the Central or Southern Pacific for late 1943 or early 1944.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: DanielAClark
I dont see why Andy would invade Burma...there is limited value in doing so. China is already out...and he wont make much progress until he has naval superiority, at which point other, more important targets become more vulnerable.

Allied ground forces need something to do, and Burma is the only place available without amphibious capabilities. Even more so given the decimated state of Allied naval assets

AFAIR no AAR ever went without Burma front in 43-44