Naval and Defense News

[mikmykWS]

Sure. Post some data on it in the db strings.

The Fleet Class CUSV and Protector class USV's are already in the database.

Mike

[kevinkins]

I was thinking of it as something to cruise off of Sandy Hook with in RL [:D], but I will see what data is out there for the DB.
You should see some of the rigs we have in these waters. Have it keep up with the other guys or I will start getting swamped on a busy weekend.

[mikmykWS]

I'm usually down in Beach Haven/LBI during the summer for a couple weeks so[:)]

Mike

[kevinkins]

Know it well. Grew up and live in Monmouth county by Red Bank. Navesink>Shrewsbury River>Sandy Hook Bay is my waterway. They call it the "bayshore" area.

[Hongjian]

This is the reply to Mgellis' post in the DB3000 thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mgellis

An idea about how to model the Chinese Type 095 submarine...

Use the statistics, sensors, weapons, etc. for the Type 093A (database , but use the hull characteristics of the Akula II (DB #625). This is about 10db quieter than the Type 093, making it as quiet as a late model Los Angeles (like the SSN Providence, DB #181), but not quite as quiet as the Virginia or the Astute.

Thoughts? Observations?

Recently, a picture of a commemorative disk was shown in the Chinese military forums, showing the scheme of an unusually shaped submarine, as well as a missile:



Most interesting clue to not dismiss it is the row of numbers and character at the right edge of the disk:


Upon further investigation, it appears that the "9211任务" or "9211 Mission" was an SLBM launch test that was conducted on July 20th, 2011. As per Chinese R&D traditions, SSBN development is tightly paired with SSN development as well, since both types of nuclear boats are based on another's hull and propulsion technology (Han+Xia, Shang+Jin etc.). Commemorative coins, disks, placards and stands are commonly issued by the Chinese MIC and R&D departments, and PLA watchers in the past have successfully predicted new developments using these items as clue.

But the depicted boat itself is a strange one: Contrary to popular believe, it is short and somehow "fat", kinda like the Astute-class. PLA watchers expected the next SSN in line to be longer and slimmer, kinda like the Virginia-class that is held by many as Gold-Standard. But since the "9211 Mission" is evidently nuclear related; there is some credibility that this simplified shape actually shows China's next SSN.

We can see two things, as pointed out:


A fillet at the sail-cusp, as well as retractable diving planes mounted on the hull. While the 093A/B SSGNs and the Type 039C SSK both have sails with fillets, they do not have the retractable diving planes.
The only boat that has both is the Type 032 Qing-class SSB, which is used as replacement for the single Golf-class in PLAN service, and also operated as a test-submarine.




The Qing-class has two SLBM launch tubes, four smaller cruise missile VLS cells and an escape-pod. It is generally assumed that the Qing also tested the AIP systems of newer Chinese SSKs, as well as the VLS cells of the new Type 093B SSGN. Generally, technologies appearing on the Qing for testing have found their way to the new frontline submarines, both conventional and nuclear.

CG artists are quick to follow:


While there is no evidence on the disk that shows the VLS, we can still make an assumption. The PLAN is evidently interested in the VLS capability for their new nuclear attack submarines, as shown in the commissioning of three to five Type 093B SSGNs that would serve as stopgap until the Type 095. Also, the Qing-class tested submarine VLS cells as well, and it is only prudent to assume that they didnt merely tested them for a single intermediate class of subs that the Type 093B are. Consistent rumors spread by insider also point to the direction that the next SSN in line will be one equipped with VLS cells.

For the shrouded propeller; aside of the depiction showing what could be a screw-shroud, we have otherwise little concrete evidence. But I will post them anyway:

^from a paper published by a chinese naval weapons research institute.



^A new-built Jin-class SSBN's screw throwing a weird shadow that could be a shrouded propeller. A clear showing of a propeller onboard a Type 093B SSN shows the difference. Ofc it could be a tarp - but why so large?

That's all so far. The PLA watcher community has to work with every little clue we can get, since the nature of Chinese nuclear submarine development is shrouded in mystery. Especially since Huludao Shipyard (which saw massive expansion in the recent years) is far removed and all submarines are built in large roofed halls.


In regards to the suggested stats for the DB3000 entry; I generally agree. To reach the quietness level of the late LA-class would be achieveable by the Chinese MIC.
In 2014, the 719th Institute has reported a breakthrough in "natural dual circulation reactors"/自循环二回路 (whatever it means), which is reportedly based or related to the civilian ACP100 small-sized natural circulation nuclear reactor, which undergoes the IAEA safety review in 2015:

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-IA ... 04154.html


According to people in the know, these types of nuclear reactors have a much reduced noise output - a traditional weakness in Chinese nuclear submarine design.

So, a notional Type 095 "Tang-class" SSGN that has the hydrodynamic improvements of a modified sail with fillet, retractable diving planes on the hull, a quieter reactor and the possible addition of shrouded propeller could indeed make the submarine very quiet.
The unusual shape of this submarine also wouldnt intefer with its acoustic performance. While the rule of thumb usually goes like "the bigger the submarine, the more room there is for possible noise insulation", the Astute-class SSN clearly shows how a relatively compact SSN (below 100 meters length) could still be very stealthy.

In any case, as with all PLA watching stuff, take this info with a grain of salt. Until we have somewhat high-res photos of the Type 095 (and that could be as far off as several decades; when the Type 095 is already obsolete and getting decommissioned), we can never say for sure. But sometimes, there are surprises; like the recent high res photo of the Type 093B SSGN in a military magazine.

So, make with this information as you wish.

[Dysta]

Man, that is a lot of rumors linked together, I bet it take you quite a time.

And finally, China did not come to this unprepared. They recently completed the new, much bigger submarine assembly hall for new classes. If they start constructing a 095 at the earliest time, then 2020 could be possible to be done.

[Hongjian]

ORIGINAL: Dysta

Man, that is a lot of rumors linked together, I bet it take you quite a time.

And finally, China did not come to this unprepared. They recently completed the new, much bigger submarine assembly hall for new classes. If they start constructing a 095 at the earliest time, then 2020 could be possible to be done.

Yeah, the expansion of Huludao and this new large hall that could very well house three submarine hulls at the same time gave many PLA watchers the idea that some sort of large scale nuclear submarine production phase is beginning. You usually do not expand your production facilities in that magnitude (Huludao being expanded 4 square kilometers with landfills and reclaimation - kinda like China's artificial islands) if all you want to do is just to build a pair of your new class of submarines just for testing and evaluation.
The dramatic expansion of production facilities point to the notion that they have settled to a mature design and are now mass-producing them.
Same has happened with the Type 052C and 052D as well. First, a pair of 052C in the early 2000s with nothing to follow for nearly a decade - until in the last 5 or so years, when they settled with the mass-production of it's immediate successor class Type 052D, now built in quick succession at two shipyards even - with reports that even secondary "Frigate-yards" are going to pick up the production.

Past experiences would strongly suggest that the 09V project was deemed suitable for mass-production already. Some big shrimp insiders like "POP3" (you'll know him if you follow these things) actually claimed it years before that the Type 095 was being evaluated and mass-production is imminent.

[lowchi]

Boeing to progress GBU-56 LJDAM integration onto Hornet fighter

http://www.janes.com/article/63494/boei ... et-fighter

[AlGrant]

Russian Beriev A-100 'Premier' AWACS model unveiled

http://defence-blog.com/news/russian-unveils-model-of-new-a-100-premier-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aircraft.html



Maiden flight expected in 2018

[Hongjian]

Something still in the very early stages of development - but would be interesting in a notional 2025+ scenario...

http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0908/c98649-9112553.html

China successfully develops quantum radar system

China launches the world's first quantum satellite on top of a Long March-2D rocket from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in Jiuquan, northwest China's Gansu Province, Aug. 16, 2016. This world's first quantum communication satellite is given the moniker "Micius," after a fifth century B.C. Chinese scientist. (Xinhua/Jin Liwang)

The 14th Institute of China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) has successfully developed China’s first quantum radar system last month, Xinhua News Agency reported. The system, which is based on the technology of single photon detection, counts as yet another major milestone for China in quantum research.

The quantum radar system was developed by the Intelligent Perception Technology Laboratory of the 14th Institute of CETC. Researchers completed experiments on quantum detection and target scattering characterization. In the target detection experiment, conducted in a real atmospheric environment, the detection ability of the system was proven to be over 100 kilometers.

According to a Sept. 8 report by Mingbao Daily, the theoretical basis of the quantum radar is that an object will change its quantum properties after receiving photonic signals. The quantum radar can easily detect stealth aircraft and is highly resistant to becoming jammed. Military experts have stated that once a stealth aircraft is located by the radar, it stands little chance to escape the strikes of air defense missiles.

This concept is also being worked on by Lockheed Martin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_radar


FYI, 14th Institute is China's premiere radar research institution who developed the Type 88 AESA for the KJ-500, the KLJ-5 AESA for the J-20 and the huge Type 346 "Dragon Eye" AESA for the 052C/D destroyers etc.

[jtoatoktoe]

ORIGINAL: lowchi

Boeing to progress GBU-56 LJDAM integration onto Hornet fighter

http://www.janes.com/article/63494/boei ... et-fighter

I'm glad they are adding laser back into some weapons...Satellites can be easy targets in a war, and you can't solely rely on them.

[Dysta]

ORIGINAL: jtoatoktoe

ORIGINAL: lowchi

Boeing to progress GBU-56 LJDAM integration onto Hornet fighter

http://www.janes.com/article/63494/boei ... et-fighter

I'm glad they are adding laser back into some weapons...Satellites can be easy targets in a war, and you can't solely rely on them.

I think laser guidance is supplemental for JDAM, not just for a safeguard to GPS's failure. What they need however, is the forward deployment of laser designator operator/drone for long range dropping, otherwise it will only act as a freefall guided bomb like Paveway.

[mikmykWS]

Laser designation gives the weapon a better chance to hit moving targets or targets in an area with gps jamming. GPS gives the weapon good accuracy against fixed targets in all but the worst weather. From a logistics standpoint you have a weapon taking on the rolls of two so there is a cost and mission planning benefit.

Laser designation can be done from the ground but also pods on an aircraft or integrated system

Mike

[Dysta]

ORIGINAL:

Laser designation can be done from the ground but also pods on an aircraft or integrated system

Mike

If the jet flys too high to drop the bomb and lase the target from long distance, it will be exposed to the hostile air radar. Shouldn't it be more plausible for F-35 and other stealth aircrafts instead?

[mikmykWS]

Technology and tactics aren't the same. I have no idea why your spinning your wheels on this one as China or weirdostan likely has these systems too.

Give it a rest already;)

Mike

[Dysta]

I think the best answer is implement this weapon, and try this out in game. [;)]

[thewood1]

I think you are a little slow at picking up hints.

[Dysta]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I think you are a little slow at picking up hints.

Can't think too much when I got a job to matter with, but you're right.

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: Dysta

I think the best answer is implement this weapon, and try this out in game. [;)]

Yeah its been added to our list.

There are several of those implemented. GBU-54 comes to mind on a ton of US platforms (F-15E, F-16, F/A-18A+,C,E,D,F, etc.) for some time.

[lowchi]

Russia may buy BrahMos cruise missiles for Su-30SM fighters — source


http://tass.com/defense/898311