Stock FitE Karri vs Larry

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some Soviet losses so far:

[Karri]

Turn 20 now, and things are moving on. This turn saw the Germans finally breaking the Soviet in Ukraine. Check the last frame of the following animation and you'll notice the difference.

Same thing is happening North and South of Kharkov...Larry now has a decision to make, he can stand and fight or try and salvage as many men as possible. One thing is for sure, if he stands, he is going to lose quite a number of divisions. Oh, and in the next 10 turns, I expect to be able to reach Rostov in the South and capture Bryansk and Smolensk in Center, and perhaps gain land near Moscow, and nothing in the North.

Turns 1 to 20 from German perspective.

[Karri]

Now supply is always a problem for Germans, but so far I've been doing quite good on that area. I've been able to keep up with the frontline so far by concentrating on few major raillines. However since the frontlines at some parts are static, I've started to connect the railines to each other, by building railines from south to north. Now it takes 2 turns to rail from Ukraine to Nelingrad area, in a 2-3 turns it should take no longer than 1 turn.

[Karri]

Infantry casualties as of turn 20:


Tank casualties as of turn 20:

[Karri]

And another thing, Odessa fell.

[Karri]

Arrows show probaple routes of advance, circles show areas of importance and engagement.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet turn 20 minimap moves movie from turns 16 thru 20:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some Soviet losses so far:

[Karri]

Had the perfect turn. My units moved freely, the combat was succesfull in every way, the two offensives around Smolensk both made breakhtroughs and I managed to surround around 20 infantry and tank division in Smolensk. Also I found several holes in the Soviet lines. Seems like Larry's pulling out units from fronts that have no activity...which is not a good idea(but then again, something that has to be done when those are your only reserves) since I immediatly took advantage of those.
The only bad thing about that turn was, when I ended my turn and saved it my computer crashed. And the autosave was from the start of the turn of course.

Took me 3 days before I plyaed it again, and while not as good turn still enjoyed some succes...about 15 divisions encircled around Smolensk.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet turn 21 minimap moves movie from turns 17 throu 21

[Karri]

The number of surrounded Soviet division is believed to be around 30 now. As the breakthroughs continue to widen, this number is believed to double or even triple. Actually, depending on how many Soviets will die in the coming 2-3 turns trying to break out, it will at least quadruple.

But main effort is still put to taking the important cities. Smolensk fell this turn(22), decreasing enemy production another 5%. In the coming turns more and more cities will fall. Currently we are  2 hexes away from Kharkov(10%), it has some defences but canno't resist for long. Dneprpetrovsk(5%) and Zaporozhe(5%) are both heavily defended, but will fall in few turns, since the enemy is about to be surrounded in the area. Stalino(5%) is defended by 2 rifle and 1 militia divisions. It will surely fall in 1-2 turns.Voroshilovgrad will be reached in one turn by a fresh panzer division I was holding in reserve. It is at the moment defended by 3 rifle divisions. Rostov(5%) will be reached in 1-2 turns. It is defended by unknown amount of units, but supposedly there aren't enough there.
All those cities will fall before the mud sets in. That should make quite a reduction in enemy production.

However that is only in the south and only by judging the current situation. Depending on how fiercly the enemy resits, Voronezh(5%), Orel(5%) and Bryansk(5%) might fall as well.

Now in the Smolensk area, there really aren't any other cities left than Tula(5%), Kalinin(5%) and Moscow(20%). I suspect that either all or none of those fall. That is why I am concentrating my main effort in the south. However Smolensk area is pretty much defencless now therefore I will keep the pressure in there, forcing Larry to chose whetever he will save Moscow or South...I'm betting he sticks to Moscow since fall of Moscow means end of game. Leningrad is pretty much safe...I can't afford to keep pressure there.


Rumors also tell that since Odessa has now fallen attackstowards Sevastopol is being planned...

[Karri]

And a screenie from the south:

[Karri]

A little animation of the Ukraine offensive:



And the Smolensk offensive:

[Karri]

Turn 23 and I got an early turn ending. Managed to advance quite a few hexes still since both in Smolensk and Ukraine(or actually the offensive is now in Russia itself) Larry has no forces to oppose me.

[Zort]

Well it looks like the soviets are toast. Karri what lessons learned can a Soviet player take out of this? Would a more aggressive style of play been more appropriate? How would you defeat a German player like you?

What are your losses by the way?

[SMK-at-work]

I don't think the Sov's are anywhere near toast - Karri is mostly behind schedule capturing cities - the list he gives above is impressive, but apart from Kharkov and Stalino they should all have been captured already - such large pockets of Sov divisions will take time to reduce, and its getting closer to the mud..tick...tock....
 
I don't think this game is anywhere near over!!

[Zort]

See I knew there would be a desenting opinion[:D]. Yes it will be interesting to watch what happens after mud.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet turn 23 minimap moves movie from turns 19 throu 23:

[Silvanski]

Mega kessel in the center [X(]  And in the south the front has burst open as if it was a ripe ulcer

[Karri]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I don't think the Sov's are anywhere near toast -

Well while I wouldn't say they are toast, they aren't exactly light years away from it either. They will be losing a lot of units and cities before the mud sets in. And for the time the mud is there Larry's gotta race to build a new defensive line. And as you can see from the maps the southern front is wide open...there's practically nothing there. Now, after that does he have the strenght to mount a decent winter offensive? That'll be a thing to see.

Karri is mostly behind schedule capturing cities - the list he gives above is impressive, but apart from Kharkov and Stalino they should all have been captured already - such large pockets of Sov divisions will take time to reduce, and its getting closer to the mud..tick...tock....

Well, the thing about the pocket is that those units are not running away...in the mud period they'll die there anyways. And the cities, well the time doesn't really matter as long as those cities ARE captured before the mud(or the winter offensive). And it's quite impossible to capture those cities at historical turns...the Soviet player isn't after all making the same mistakes as Soviets historically did make.

I don't think this game is anywhere near over!!

It surely isn't. My guess is I'll make it further in South but can't advance around Moscow...I would bet the game won't end in 41. 42 will be a different story...we'll see what happens then.

ORIGINAL: Zort

Well it looks like the soviets are toast. Karri what lessons learned can a Soviet player take out of this? Would a more aggressive style of play been more appropriate? How would you defeat a German player like you?

Defence in depth...Larry sometimes has a habit of 'crowding' the contested hexes. If I see a hex with say 4 infantry divisions I'm gonna attack it with one unit on minimise losses and add in LOADS of artillery support. It normally results in Larry's divisions reduced to half with red/yellow in supply while I just have one unit losing half of it's equipment and supply. This is especially so in the Leningrad are where I have two recon units attacking two stacks of Soviets causing hundreds of dead rifle squads each turn.
Now that's just plain attrition warfare...and some actually consider this tactic to be gamey...I don't since attacking a fresh fortified Soviet rifle division with say 3 infantry regiments just cause you massive losses and nothing else. I rather 'tire up' the enemy unit before attacking it en masse.

Now defending in depth is really the only way to defend against this tactic. Ie. it is better to have 2 lines of fresh fortified infantry divisions than one line with 2 fresh fortified units in each hex. This way once the enemy breaks the first line he is already a bit exhausted and has to face the second line which is fresh.

I mean, pretty much only hexes you CAN'T give up are those which cause production losses. And even those I'd rather give up than risking being flanked. ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, hold the line. Have flak, mp or any unit fill the line. because if there aren't units in the line the enemy doesn't have to fight it's way through, he can just march through. Even if it's ZOC the enemy can still make several hexes into the rear.

Of course counter-attacks agains't important targets are something to consider. Mass some artillery and throw in a fresh tank division.