The Rumble in the Tundra, a Vet (Sov) JB (Axis) rematch

[jasonbroomer]

T9 AGC cont

I also refit a panzer division. So far losses have been very light but this division had 80 damaged tanks, not something that you want to be retreated with. By now, I have built up a reserve of tanks in my armoury (for the first few turns, the divisions in France take up the production)

T9 AGC EoT Begin to refit panzers, this division has 80 damanged tanks.png (1.59 MiB) Viewed 3016 times

On the Gomel sector, supply is improving and my forces are building. A fresh ID makes mincemeat of a Soviet Cavalry unit. It is best to make DAs against Cv units, if theCv is fresh it may slip away but often it gets canned.

T9 AGCS No need to isolate them when you can hit like this.png (2.55 MiB) Viewed 3016 times

I'm pleased that I didn't try to isolate that cavalry unit though I did manage to isolate an infantry division as a nice little bonus. The German cavalry units are very useful.

[jasonbroomer]

T9 AGS

While the centre misses the presence of a second FBD, my rail head in the south has zoomed along as a consequence.

T9 AGS SoT Kiev abandoned, note how far forward my FBD is.png (3.81 MiB) Viewed 3007 times

As I have mentioned before, supply is a compromise. The strategy employed in this game have been all about conquering as much as I can in the south while forcing the Soviets to defend in the centre and north where their units can be reduced by the Axis.

Wisely, Vet has abandoned Kiev. We employ high morale units (>80) such as mountaineers to benefit from road movement to flip hexes around Kiev

T9 AGS High morale units get movement bonuse on roads.png (2.99 MiB) Viewed 3007 times

While my fully rested and supplied divisions bear down on Kharkov with high MPs and CPP

T9 AGS Fully rested and supplied IDs bearring down on Kharkov.png (2.71 MiB) Viewed 3007 times

Note in the SW the highlighted corps is also now coming into play just as the Soviet defences harden. This corps has been resupplied and gradually brought to the front as the supply situation improves and the Red Army finally makes a meaningful appearance in the south.

[jasonbroomer]

T9 AGS cont

The Axis powerful forces brush aside the Soviet defences around Kharkov

T9 AGS Id like to attack these retreated units but too vulnerable to couterattack.png (2.13 MiB) Viewed 2998 times

We'd dearly love to attack the highlighted retreated units but it would leave our panzers too vulnerable to a counterattack. We pause our advance where we are left in a position to isolated Kharkov next turn. I am quite sure that Vet will not be expecting our supply to be as strong as it is.

Back in the west, Kiev is finally isolated and we begin to flip hexes over the Dnepr

T9 AGS EoT Kiev finally isolated.png (3.1 MiB) Viewed 2998 times

Note that I have not rushed to take Kiev in this game, there is ample time to capture it and still receive the maximum bonus VPs for early capture.

I also finally make a push towards the Crimea. Isolating D'town is almost incidental but will bring us max VPs next turn.

T9 AGS EoT Thrust for Crimea starts.png (1.88 MiB) Viewed 2998 times

I'm not sure what the highlighted unit is doing there but its a bit of a nuisance! My most southerly units are resupplied by air this turn so I don't care if they get cut off.

I had hoped to make better progress towards the Crimea but Vet's masterly defence of Kherson has slowed me down and forced me to bypass it. I really didn't fancy committing the troops required to take a fortified port and then attack a marsh across a major river. I'm sure that the defences into the Crimea are now strong and deep but again I can't target everywhere. I still have plenty of time to capture Sevastopol and still receive bonus VPs.

We continue to attrition the Red Army

T9 Losses.png (369.28 KiB) Viewed 2998 times

I hate to use terms from Vietnam, but this is what this war is about - the body count is good

[HardLuckYetAgain]

T9 AGS cont

The Axis powerful forces brush aside the Soviet defences around Kharkov

Maybe Vet does what I do with the Soviets, just move the T-34 factory T1 along with the other factories that can be moved from there. Granted I did that all the time in WITE1 and carried on into WITE2. Even though WITE2 it is auto moved I move them on purpose still when I play the Soviets. Of course there are PROs and CON's to do so, but I just get it over quick to recover quicker long game. But that is just me.

Kharkov.png (283.68 KiB) Viewed 2971 times

[Veterin]

T9 AGS cont

The Axis powerful forces brush aside the Soviet defences around Kharkov

Maybe Vet does what I do with the Soviets, just move the T-34 factory T1 along with the other factories that can be moved from there. Granted I did that all the time in WITE1 and carried on into WITE2. Even though WITE2 it is auto moved I move them on purpose still when I play the Soviets. Of course there are PROs and CON's to do so, but I just get it over quick to recover quicker long game. But that is just me.



Kharkov.png

I hadn't done that but probably not a bad idea against good Axis opponents when you know you're not going to get many counterattack opportunities in 41 anyway

[Veterin]

T9 Soviet

1

1.png (1.8 MiB) Viewed 2893 times

Axis forces make a large attack to clear the Narva river. I did think it was a possibility Axis forces would shift units from near the Luga line further west so I had started building a new fort line in the area however I got more units than I would have liked isolated. I will recon and see if I can break the isolation for another turn but does not look like I can attack my way out of this one.

At least this attack into a swamp was expensive in terms of Axis AFVs with 34 lost and a further ~30 damaged. There are a lot of high CPP Axis infantry in the area so next turn I think he'll move out of the bridgehead fairly quickly and I’ve started preparing a fallback line near Oranienbaum and the mountain hexes nearby.

2

2.png (2.59 MiB) Viewed 2893 times

The Axis ball of units continues to advance north east. It’s not clear to me yet if he’ll swing north towards Rhezv or south towards Vyzama but I think the latter is more probable. In any event, he’s through the tough terrain in the area so I’ll likely fall back to more defendable terrain to minimise the risk of a large pocket. He’s operating at a reasonable distance from the rails so hopefully this is causing some damage to his truck pool given his closest deposit would be Smolensk (as I still control the double rails to Vyzama).

There were 2 large attacks on my triple stacks in the area with a further ~40 Axis AFVs destroyed and a similar amount damaged. The majority of attacks are very low losses for axis though as he’s attacking with overwhelming CV advantages in most battles.

3

3.png (1.37 MiB) Viewed 2893 times

I didn’t have enough time to build up a decent defence in the area and other than 1 battle, most of my units in the area were just trash units for delaying the inevitable. Its likely I’ll abandon Kharkov this turn as I’m still fairly weak in this sector so I need to build up some strength.

4

4.png (1.63 MiB) Viewed 2893 times

I actually expected him to most east towards Stalino once taking D-town/Zaph but it looks like he’s going for a flanking manoeuvre on my Kherson defensive line. I need to be careful he can’t rush my prepared defences at Crimea so I need to fall back in some areas to avoid those forts being destroyed easily. Ideally, I want to have strong stacks on all those frontline forts to slow down the capture of Crimea.

[Veterin]

T9 Soviet cont

5

5.png (110.39 KiB) Viewed 2892 times

Zhukov has taken over command of the SW front following poor performance from his predecessor. It’s a shame It will be a while before SW front has stronger units in the theatre

6

6.png (840.15 KiB) Viewed 2892 times

I did a lot of recon in the area for two purposes. Firstly, I needed to see if I could break the pocket and secondly, to see if Axis forces have shifted west or if it was just motorised units. I was able to break the pocket which is great using a low TOE cav division (with 2 MPs left!). I had other motorised units that could have more easily broken the pocket but I want to avoid suiciding them when possible. Those troops will just be reisolated next turn so their fate is already sealed but given I was able to cut off access in the Pskov direction, it should be very expensive truck/supply wise to get supplies to the unit from the Estonian direction with so much ZOC. It’s likely JB has rail repaired with RADs in Estonia as well as the port at Tallinn but it’s still a long way for supply to travel which is great. Supply/Ammo appears to be high for those semi isolated units but fuel is very low so hopefully they’re thirsty for supply!

Other than the good defensive terrain highlighted in blue, Axis could very easily make a break out next turn so I want to stack as many units in his path as possible and will strip some of my defences from the Luga line. The Luga line is redundant if he can advance quickly from this direction anyway

7

7.png (1.71 MiB) Viewed 2892 times

I really want to avoid losing Leningrad in 41 if possible. As can be seen I’ve shifted a lot of my units further west to align with the axis advance. I’ve created some “stronger” points in the second row in the blue circle so he wont be able to bring more units through the gaps without also clearing those. He could always blast away the 72 and 73 def stack at the front which would give him a lot more freedom of movement but that’s about as good a def I can get at this stage of the game. The other option he could take is to advance along the orange line in favourable terrain. That 13=32 hex on the corner near the river is a lvl 2 fort with 44% complete so fingers crossed it makes it to lvl 3 (can’t be bothered calculating it).

8

8.png (1.71 MiB) Viewed 2892 times

I could have tried to isolate the axis advance on the east side of the Dnepre but I decided to fall back and play it “safe”. I want to really try and slow down the axis advance in Crimea so I want to make sure I have rested high TOE units in key hexes. It would be a shame to give up the Kherson defence easily so I decide to hold here one more turn before falling back. I think I can do so safely but time will tell. I don’t expect him to have mobile units near Kherson given the frontline has been static for several turns and any mobile units would have went via d-town/zaph.

[Veterin]

T9 Soviet Cont

9

9.png (1.12 MiB) Viewed 2891 times

I make 1 counter attack near Kharkov and isolated 3 panzers, 2 motorised and 1 infantry division. Rather than using my strongest units in the area, I used ones that had the most MPs after attacking so I could do a partial retreat after combat. His units in the pocket are relatively fatigued/low supply on the whole (from what I can see on intel) so hopefully this will limit his firepower next turn. That being said, his infantry isn’t far behind so I expect Kharkov to fall next turn from frontal assault.

10

10.png (1.77 MiB) Viewed 2891 times

end of turn defence at Kharkov. A lot of trash units in the area but hopefully enough to avoid a pocket next turn (the one after I’ll need to fall back)

11

11.png (1.08 MiB) Viewed 2891 times

JB really has a solid understanding of ZOC and that not every pocket needs to be formed in one turn. Through this move here he is close to encircling a number of my units however I’m fairly confident I can counter on that single stack moto division. Of the units in the “pocket”, after checking their MPs I can only attack with 2 of them as the 3rd is already low MPs and will not have enough MPs to escape after an attack.

12

12.png (1.08 MiB) Viewed 2891 times

Successful attack on the motorised division in the swamp with overwhelming numbers and significantly higher initial CV. As I was able to cut of retreat paths prior to attacking it is an automatic rout. Whilst losses are relatively low from the attack, there were 360 Axis trucks lost so it all adds up over time

[Veterin]

T9 Soviet Cont

13

13.png (2.72 MiB) Viewed 2890 times

My defence in the centre is pretty stretched. He could take Rzhev or Vyzama next turn if he wanted to so I’ll need to adapt to what he does next turn. I’ve got very little defences west of Rhzev so he could easily bypass that way or to be honest he could probably go straight through any existing point in my line. I’ll need to heavily reinforce the centre over the next few turns to keep Moscow safe.

End of turn OOB/Loss screen

14

14.png (253.64 KiB) Viewed 2890 times

15

15.png (187.68 KiB) Viewed 2890 times

16

16.png (299.89 KiB) Viewed 2890 times

[jasonbroomer]

T10 Logistics

This turn my supply need was 21,666 and supply delivered 27,688. Compared to my first game against Vet the respective numbers were 23,803 and 24,832. Over the first 10 turns my average Lost supply has been 5,323 versus 8,126. To repeat myself, lost supply has taken up rail capacity and chewed up trucks, all with no benefit to your front line troops. Learning how to minimise Lost supply is one of the keys to good logistics.

My advance has been hardily dawdling either. The Axis are within 120 miles of Moscow, 80 of Leningrad and close to taking Kharkov. I have advanced far more eastwards than in my first game against Vet. Also I have not taken excess RADs from my FBDs (you can take 3 from memory), though I have received the additional 2 RADs from Norway as TBs are open. I consider taking RADs from FBDs as not WAD and thus cheesy. A handful of extra RADs doesn't sound much but over the course of 10,20,30... turns the effects compound materially.

Here is my trucking situation

T10 SoT Trucks.png (216.27 KiB) Viewed 2747 times

By turn 10 my average unit has essentially a full complement of trucks [331,319 (331,182)]. I have 47k trucks tied up at depots and 9k in the pool, which is acceptable. As a rule of thumb, the Axis are stretching for trucks when the pool dips to 5k and below.

This turn I suffered my first reversal as a motorised division got routed, costing me 340 trucks. I still only lost 2,249 trucks in total over the turn. Over the first 10 turns, I have lost 16,500 trucks. The Axis build something 2,500 trucks per turn and capture a further 15k or so Soviet trucks in the first 10 turns. However, the Axis still have a trucking deficit due to the number of new units coming through the reinforcement schedule. Minimising truck losses keeps your motorised units (and infantry divisions too) with high MP allocations. I suspect that most players will have far in excess of 37,000 trucks in repair. Over time, half the trucks in repair will return, half are lost.

Apologies to newbies as my AARs are probably directed at experienced players and novices may be baffled by some of what I say. Hopefully most players will have learnt something from these logistics updates. Karkay(?) did a wonderful AAR a few years ago which I found very helpful in learning how to manage depots, I recommend this to you. Hopefully I have added to this work. I'd be very excited to hear from anyone who can top these numbers and learning how you achieved it!

This will be the final turn when I dedicate a section of the AAR to logistics. Having done a wonderful job on logistics, you can now go on to learn how I throw it all away by needlessly getting my forward troops isolated...

[EwaldvonKleist]

This will be the final turn when I dedicate a section of the AAR to logistics. Having done a wonderful job on logistics, you can now go on to learn how I throw it all away by needlessly getting my forward troops isolated...

Think positive-your improved supply management means they can easily go one turn without new supply!

[jasonbroomer]

once yes, but...

[jasonbroomer]

T10 AGN

In the north Vet managed to thread his way through to break the pocket

T10 AGN SoT Fair enough.png (2.17 MiB) Viewed 2583 times

He must have been fortunate to have a unit mobile enough to get through 2 ZoC to ZoC, although high supply priority usually gives the Soviets close to max MPs each turn. This turn I aim to clear the highlighted hexes, doing so will provide me with a zoc free crossing of the Narva. Obviously I will also be reclosing the pocket, although any juicy SUs there will now have escaped.

So we start to clear a 'zone of comfort' around our crossing point

T10 AGN first step.png (1.37 MiB) Viewed 2583 times

Scoring up a decent victory. From here it proved to be easier than expected to meet our turn's objectives.

T10 AGN finally some ease of movement.png (2.48 MiB) Viewed 2583 times

However, not everything goes our way as a dodgy CV estimate proves to be an underestimate as we stretch for further victories

T10 AGN this looked easier than it was.png (1.84 MiB) Viewed 2583 times

Nevertheless, we appear to be tying up a satisfactory number Soviet forces in this sector. Things seem to be going well here and I am pleased with the progress. Note that supply is so abundant that even the fly boys have been let loose.

[jasonbroomer]

T10 AGC

Our strategy in the centre has been to target Rzhev and then Kallinin. Now that we are finally through the cruddy terrain so we take advantage to retreat units into the open as we press towards our objectives

T10 AGC Pop this delaying division out into the open.png (2.57 MiB) Viewed 2577 times

Vet was clearly willing to sacrifice this unit to delay us, so we need to send him a butchers bill that will give him cause for thought

T10 AGC and then clout.png (1.61 MiB) Viewed 2577 times

Panzers will immolate fatigued Soviet divisions. Indeed this is a trick that is repeated as this Soviet division takes a ridiculously unwise retreat route

T10 AGC not where you want to retreat to.png (2.07 MiB) Viewed 2577 times

as the panzers leap on it like a cat on an injured mouse

T10 AGC because thisis what happens.png (1.87 MiB) Viewed 2577 times

with comparably bloody results

[jasonbroomer]

T10 AGC cont

Our advance is now someway from our rail heads, which is scarcely beyond Smolensk and so 3rd Pz is obliged to turn south to secure the Smolensk-Vyazma highway

Our attempt last turn to seize the marshes was foiled

T10 SoT Oh well.png (2.14 MiB) Viewed 2564 times

I am surprised that Vet was able to marshal sufficient resources to eject the unit from such favourable ground but I guess that he has lots of CPP as so far he has not been able to make many counterattacks. However, the sacrifice has thinned out the defenders and made them leave their forts so we can make progress here

T10 AGC wanted to push harder here but dont have MPs.png (2.15 MiB) Viewed 2572 times

I'd like to have press further here but supply pain is beginning to impact MP allowances.


I don't like splitting up my offensive forces but I can't keep it concentrated because of the supply situation so some troops have to swing back south to get closer to the rail head.

T10 AGC EoT becoming more dispersed as supply issues bite.png (3.53 MiB) Viewed 2572 times

I've been wanting to take the airfield at Dugino for a while so that I can fly in some much needed supply. Note that this supply is flown in from Idritsa. This town, some 200 miles due west of Dugino, is something of a weird choice for a supply cache that it came about accidentally from some random RAD repairs. These were extended to make a workable spur from the Pskov mainline. Sadly, it is the only depot for miles with an excess of supply.

T10 AGC 650 tons of valuable supply flown in.png (1.27 MiB) Viewed 2572 times

650 tons isn't much and won't go far in supplying 2 Panzer groups but I need to start husbanding supply until my rail head can get further east. I am beginning to feel the effects in the centre of sending 2 FBDs south.

[jasonbroomer]

T10 AGS

In the Gomel sector I have been wanting to press on into the light Soviet defences but only now do I have a free FBD that can help with a push here

T10 AGC EoT beginning to move forward just as FBD ready to go to Gomel.png (3.96 MiB) Viewed 2560 times

Strategically perhaps I should have just ignored this sector and focused on the push towards Moscow. The Soviets have a hard time covering a front with many salients so defences would have only diminished in time. There are no VPs in this sector. However it is too big an area to be enveloped between AGC and AGS. Capturing Bryansk and its environs provides defensive terrain that should prove useful in the winter so a valuable FBD has been assigned to push the tracks here in the expectation that progress here will be quicker than from Smolensk, where RADs will have to do.

Vet managing to cut off my Kharkov spearhead is a total pain and offsets much of the work that I've put into my logistics. I didn't think his forces in the sector were that strong and while the damaged infantry division was in the open, it was fresh and had support from adjacent hexes

T10 AGS SoT A real nusiance and a surprise.png (1.72 MiB) Viewed 2566 times

What I hadn't anticipated was an attack from the north as well as the south. It is frustrating how mobile these Soviets are!

We had hoped to make the Soviets pay for this violation of our territory but some of the follow up attacks produced disappointingly modest results such as this

T10 AGS Disappointing follow up attack.png (2.7 MiB) Viewed 2560 times

Hey-ho! Anyway a fresh corps has arrived to keep the momentum rolling

T10 AGS EoT unanticipated delay but fresh corps arrives with another on way.png (2.38 MiB) Viewed 2560 times

[jasonbroomer]

T10 AGS cont

In the very south we press on towards the Crimea but we are wondering if Stalino would make a better objective

T10 AGS EoT Wondering if Stalino would be better target that Crimea.png (2.21 MiB) Viewed 2553 times

There appears to be an army defending the northern route to Stalino but very little defending the river line to the south. In my first game against Vet, he taught me the hard way the difficulties that can lie with the northern route. An undefended southern approach appears to be a gift! This of course will delay my Crimea assault but he has had all the time in the world to prepare his defences there. So I decide to keep my options open with the panzer corps from 1st Panzer group laying up around the airfield at Melitpol where air resupply can take place. In the meantime allied motorised units can capture ground south of Stalino. I suspect that Vet will abandon Kherson this turn, in which case 1st Pz can head to Stalino while 11th Army can free the way to have the RADs repair the rail links towards the Crimea.


I am coming to the conclusion that open TBs are a big advantage for the Axis. For instances these regiment sized SUs drawn from the TB are a huge boon for the Axis on map

T10 AGS EoT open TBs provides extra regiments.png (793.56 KiB) Viewed 2553 times

These 7-8 regiments can be teleported to any hex and severely curtailing Soviet opportunities for counterattacks. Against this, the Soviets can raid TBs to ensure sufficient numbers to defend their homeland in 1941 but this is more than offset from the advantages gained from sheltering the panzers during winter. This leaves the Soviets open to a virtually unstoppable 1942 Axis offensive.

I think I would prefer to play with locked TBs in future, or possibly open but restricted by a gentlemen's agreement to prevent wholesale raiding of the best bits of the TB.

In this game I have

T10 AGSA fitting combination of troops and commander.png (1.41 MiB) Viewed 2553 times

it may be an amusing combination of commander and division to be operating in Russia but I don't think it really adds to the colour and occasion of such a grand game.

[PeteJC]

T9 AGS cont

The Axis powerful forces brush aside the Soviet defences around Kharkov

Maybe Vet does what I do with the Soviets, just move the T-34 factory T1 along with the other factories that can be moved from there. Granted I did that all the time in WITE1 and carried on into WITE2. Even though WITE2 it is auto moved I move them on purpose still when I play the Soviets. Of course there are PROs and CON's to do so, but I just get it over quick to recover quicker long game. But that is just me.



Kharkov.png

Ok two stupid questions:

1. How do you move factories?
2. I had previously read in the forum that conquering production cities does not really have an impact on the Soviets. I found that a bit odd given the complexity of the game and excellent programming within it. Is it true that taking production cities does not hurt the Soviets? The same for manpower areas??

[HardLuckYetAgain]

T9 AGS cont

The Axis powerful forces brush aside the Soviet defences around Kharkov

Maybe Vet does what I do with the Soviets, just move the T-34 factory T1 along with the other factories that can be moved from there. Granted I did that all the time in WITE1 and carried on into WITE2. Even though WITE2 it is auto moved I move them on purpose still when I play the Soviets. Of course there are PROs and CON's to do so, but I just get it over quick to recover quicker long game. But that is just me.



Kharkov.png

Ok two stupid questions:

1. How do you move factories?
2. I had previously read in the forum that conquering production cities does not really have an impact on the Soviets. I found that a bit odd given the complexity of the game and excellent programming within it. Is it true that taking production cities does not hurt the Soviets? The same for manpower areas??

Click the button with the pink arrow first.
Then click the button that is red to move.

IF the city/town/area was taken in the war then the factories will Automatically move without human intervention by the program. IF, for instance, Moscow is taken then all those factories would be destroyed. I have old threads on this on the forums but I am sure they are buried now days

Factory move.png (1.26 MiB) Viewed 2377 times

[PeteJC]

Tanks HLYA. To answer my own second question the reason why capturing factory cities does not matter is that against the AI the hex will always be evacuated ahead of time. Against a human it will be evacuated ahead of time if they are aware of the capability. That makes me feel a bit better as I thought before it was just a lack of programming.