The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[ny59giants]

Going uphill when 'gassed' is bad enough. It's worse trying to come down a decent incline and your legs are in such bad shape that you almost cannot slow yourself down and risk injury. [:-]

How many days does it take your legs to recover from this kind of effort?

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Before the pioneers came along, the Cherokee Indians probably settled this area. There is widespread belief in Georgia that the Cherokee bent trees like this one to mark trails or landmarks. They didn't. Bent trees are natural.

That tree is too young to have been used as Sign. However there is some truth to that folklore. Many things were used in Sign, trees being one.

There were people there before the Cherokee. The Cherokee were a post-DeSoto mixture of a migrating Iroquoian speaking group with elements of local Coosa, Cofaqui and Cofachiqui(Kingdom of the Pearl Lady) along with some other small groups.

A Cherokee, or any person of that time/place would alter a small tree, or it's branches to convey a "Sign" message, and if left in that position long enough it would grow into that position. And the sender or receiver would note it's altered growth over the years and tell it's tale.

Many times a Sign would be undone so as to show it was read, unless it was safer to not let this be known.

Sign to mark trails or landmarks would be a lesser use, as the main use of Sign would be to Twitter a message to someone(s).

On a side note... DeSoto came across entire forests where the distance between the trees were symmetrical.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

That tree is too young to have been used as Sign. However there is some truth to that folklore. Many things were used in Sign, trees being one.

There were people there before the Cherokee. The Cherokee were a post-DeSoto mixture of a migrating Iroquoian speaking group with elements of local Coosa, Cofaqui and Cofachiqui(Kingdom of the Pearl Lady) along with some other small groups.

A Cherokee, or any person of that time/place would alter a small tree, or it's branches to convey a "Sign" message, and if left in that position long enough it would grow into that position. And the sender or receiver would note it's altered growth over the years and tell it's tale.

Many times a Sign would be undone so as to show it was read, unless it was safer to not let this be known.

Sign to mark trails or landmarks would be a lesser use, as the main use of Sign would be to Twitter a message to someone(s).

On a side note... DeSoto came across entire forests where the distance between the trees were symmetrical.

More likely the tree was little more than a springy sapling when a large tree or branch fell on it and bent it to the ground. The sapling kept on growing while the dead wood on top of it slowly rotted away. Eventually the sapling became a tree that still held the shape it had for years growing up.

But the native lore is interesting too, much like I learned the silverleaf on the NZ flag was a fern that the Maori used when they moved at night. The underside of the fern showed silver in the moonlight so the Maori bent the fern over as they moved to mark their trail - most often when them moved in on enemy tribes and needed a marker for the escape route.

BTW I have never heard of the Cofaqui people, unless some spell it Cofefe ...[;)]

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

Going uphill when 'gassed' is bad enough. It's worse trying to come down a decent incline and your legs are in such bad shape that you almost cannot slow yourself down and risk injury. [:-]

How many days does it take your legs to recover from this kind of effort?

You're right, the downhill at the end was terrible.

I'm usually ready to go by the next day, though I often have what I'd characterize as mild soreness for two days following a particularly long hike. If I've been consistently jogging in the mountains, it's far better than the occasions where I've slacked off for several weeks. Then the soreness can be far more than mild.

[Canoerebel]

Regarding bent trees, neither the Cherokee nor their predecessors bent trees to mark trails or anything else. There is a large movement contending they did, but that movement is wrong scientifically and historically.

[JeffroK]

Must have been plenty of Cherokee in OZ if it was true!

[Canoerebel]

5/7/45

Asia: Massive Allied army advancing in good order on Peiping.

End of War Scenario: John has discontinued opposition over Osaka. There's enough strat bombing points there to provide what's needed for AV over the next three to six days if he doesn't resume opposition, so I'll continue to target the city.

The real question is whether he will commit Death Star and his kamikazes before war's end. If not, the war will end with a whimper without the Divine Wind ever being used. That's just weird. He's still engaged in what's going on, so I think he may be organizing the "Grand Finale." On that chance, I'm changing up the look of things tomorrow. The main change is Death Star moving north to lend a hand with the budding enemy counteroffensive in Manchuria.

I think the war will end with the Allies besieging Singapore, Fusan and Peiping, after already conquering most of mainland Asia plus Formosa and Luzon, with more than half of Home Island industry destroyed, and with KB and kamikazes waiting for the right chance to defend the Empire.

[aciddrinker]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Before the pioneers came along, the Cherokee Indians probably settled this area. There is widespread belief in Georgia that the Cherokee bent trees like this one to mark trails or landmarks. They didn't. Bent trees are natural.

That tree is too young to have been used as Sign. However there is some truth to that folklore. Many things were used in Sign, trees being one.

There were people there before the Cherokee. The Cherokee were a post-DeSoto mixture of a migrating Iroquoian speaking group with elements of local Coosa, Cofaqui and Cofachiqui(Kingdom of the Pearl Lady) along with some other small groups.

A Cherokee, or any person of that time/place would alter a small tree, or it's branches to convey a "Sign" message, and if left in that position long enough it would grow into that position. And the sender or receiver would note it's altered growth over the years and tell it's tale.

Many times a Sign would be undone so as to show it was read, unless it was safer to not let this be known.

Sign to mark trails or landmarks would be a lesser use, as the main use of Sign would be to Twitter a message to someone(s).

On a side note... DeSoto came across entire forests where the distance between the trees were symmetrical.

Maybe just wind make this? In Poland we have forest whit such trees.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crooked_Forest

[Canoerebel]

Interesting post.

My first thought when I saw your post was: snow. And the Wiki article notes that's one of the theories.

When these trees were saplings and whippet thin, there might've been ten inches of hard-packed snow on the ground. Then heavy snow or ice bent the saplings over from the point of the hard-packed snow. Since they were so thin, they yielded to the bending without breaking. After the snow or ice melted, they remained bent (saplings will do that when bent for a few hours or days) and the leaders resumed vertical growth, creating the oddly curved trees. (Or perhaps the Cherokee were responsible.)

The difference between these trees and the one in my photo is that these are the original "trunks." In my photo, the original tree was bent horizontally and, as BBfanboy noted, died and rotted away to the point on the trunk where a new leader had grown vertically from the side of the tree.

[Canoerebel]

5/8/45

Siege of Peiping: Opening Allied bombardment shows Peiping held by two divisions at 2/3rds strength. Allies have 2k AV in the hex and 9k AV within two hexes. If the war lasted long enough, Peiping would fall quickly. But I think strategic bombing will end the war before the bulk of the Allied army arrives and attacks.

[Canoerebel]

5/8/45

Intel Screen: John posted strong CAP at Osaka but Allied fighters handled it efficiently and in the right order. Then the bombers came in and hit the strategic targets hard, though points scored were less than I'd expected.

Overall, the turn is a strong one, yielding about 1/3rd of the points needed for AV. At this rate, the war would last about two more days, though variations in yield (and the possibility of enemy counterattacks) might push that back several days or more. But it seems like the end is nigh.

[Canoerebel]

5/8/45

Air Losses: Most days, the air war is tight, but today was a little Allied victory. Sweeps over Osaka and unescorted enemy strikes against shipping at Moppo protected by heavy CAP were the two main contributors.

John hasn't really employed his air force offensively in a long time. He fights defensively (CAP traps) but avoid air strikes against well-protected Allied targets. This results in a low-scoring and tight air war except when the Allies knock out alot of his aircraft on the ground, which happened last week a couple of times.

John's air war strategy dovetails with his naval strategy - keep his assets out of harm's way to avoid the risk of major losses. The payoff is a slow, strangling death in which neither air force nor navy have materially impeded the strategic bombing campaign and the ruination of Japanese armies in China and Korea. In the end, he preferred a slow, strangling death to a costly Banzai climax. He drew things out materially longer but never used his kamikazes or carriers offensively to defend the Empire and to pay tribute to the Bushido Code.

[Canoerebel]

5/8/45

Osaka: Allies keep going to this well. Projections indicate there's just enough oil here to propel the machine to victory.

[Canoerebel]

5/8/45

Asia: Lots of wheels in motion, with the Allies in position to wipe out all resistance and claim all of mainland Asia within a month. But there never was time for everything, as Byron Herbert Reece put it.

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

That tree is too young to have been used as Sign. However there is some truth to that folklore. Many things were used in Sign, trees being one.

There were people there before the Cherokee. The Cherokee were a post-DeSoto mixture of a migrating Iroquoian speaking group with elements of local Coosa, Cofaqui and Cofachiqui(Kingdom of the Pearl Lady) along with some other small groups.

A Cherokee, or any person of that time/place would alter a small tree, or it's branches to convey a "Sign" message, and if left in that position long enough it would grow into that position. And the sender or receiver would note it's altered growth over the years and tell it's tale.

Many times a Sign would be undone so as to show it was read, unless it was safer to not let this be known.

Sign to mark trails or landmarks would be a lesser use, as the main use of Sign would be to Twitter a message to someone(s).

On a side note... DeSoto came across entire forests where the distance between the trees were symmetrical.

More likely the tree was little more than a springy sapling when a large tree or branch fell on it and bent it to the ground. The sapling kept on growing while the dead wood on top of it slowly rotted away. Eventually the sapling became a tree that still held the shape it had for years growing up.

But the native lore is interesting too, much like I learned the silverleaf on the NZ flag was a fern that the Maori used when they moved at night. The underside of the fern showed silver in the moonlight so the Maori bent the fern over as they moved to mark their trail - most often when them moved in on enemy tribes and needed a marker for the escape route.

BTW I have never heard of the Cofaqui people, unless some spell it Cofefe ...[;)]

Funny, the kingdom south of Cofaqui was Cofa. All which have multiple spellings.

showed silver in the moonlight

similar to Ranger Eyes.

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Regarding bent trees, neither the Cherokee nor their predecessors bent trees to mark trails or anything else. There is a large movement contending they did, but that movement is wrong scientifically and historically.

"is wrong scientifically and historically." Since you are so familiar with that tell us about it. And their teepees[;)]

The difference between "Landmark" trees and "Sign" trees?
What is your opinion of the Rutherford Survey Expedition after the Revolutionary War and the Beech tree they encountered?
The Indian way of life experiences of Simon Kenton?

My house sits on a Indian mound and I have a large number of artifacts. I like to learn about this era.

[jwolf]

I think the war will end ... with KB and kamikazes waiting for the right chance to defend the Empire.

Amazing. Epitaph for the Japanese Empire.

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

After about 10 miles of hiking in record-breaking heat with no hardwood canopy to ward off the sunlight, the trail turned steeply up the side of Tatum Lead, following an old wagon road. The trail climbed roughly 1,000 feet over the next mile and a quarter. It was tough going. I was gassed. At the end of the climb, the trail topped off in a gap atop Tatum Lead. Here my hiking buddy is approaching that gap. We still had about four miles to go and I was already gassed.

When walking in the woods if one smells 3day old bacon grease, what thoughts?

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

That tree is too young to have been used as Sign. However there is some truth to that folklore. Many things were used in Sign, trees being one.

There were people there before the Cherokee. The Cherokee were a post-DeSoto mixture of a migrating Iroquoian speaking group with elements of local Coosa, Cofaqui and Cofachiqui(Kingdom of the Pearl Lady) along with some other small groups.

A Cherokee, or any person of that time/place would alter a small tree, or it's branches to convey a "Sign" message, and if left in that position long enough it would grow into that position. And the sender or receiver would note it's altered growth over the years and tell it's tale.

Many times a Sign would be undone so as to show it was read, unless it was safer to not let this be known.

Sign to mark trails or landmarks would be a lesser use, as the main use of Sign would be to Twitter a message to someone(s).

On a side note... DeSoto came across entire forests where the distance between the trees were symmetrical.

More likely the tree was little more than a springy sapling when a large tree or branch fell on it and bent it to the ground. The sapling kept on growing while the dead wood on top of it slowly rotted away. Eventually the sapling became a tree that still held the shape it had for years growing up.

But the native lore is interesting too, much like I learned the silverleaf on the NZ flag was a fern that the Maori used when they moved at night. The underside of the fern showed silver in the moonlight so the Maori bent the fern over as they moved to mark their trail - most often when them moved in on enemy tribes and needed a marker for the escape route.

BTW I have never heard of the Cofaqui people, unless some spell it Cofefe ...[;)]

One problem with the story is that there isnt a Silver Fernleaf on the NZ Flag.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Interesting post.

My first thought when I saw your post was: snow. And the Wiki article notes that's one of the theories.

When these trees were saplings and whippet thin, there might've been ten inches of hard-packed snow on the ground. Then heavy snow or ice bent the saplings over from the point of the hard-packed snow. Since they were so thin, they yielded to the bending without breaking. After the snow or ice melted, they remained bent (saplings will do that when bent for a few hours or days) and the leaders resumed vertical growth, creating the oddly curved trees. (Or perhaps the Cherokee were responsible.)

The difference between these trees and the one in my photo is that these are the original "trunks." In my photo, the original tree was bent horizontally and, as BBfanboy noted, died and rotted away to the point on the trunk where a new leader had grown vertically from the side of the tree.

That was my first thought even before reading your post Dan. Ice storm..