MWiF Map Review - America

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here is upper Québec.
Feels cold !!!!

are any of these boondocky hexes invadable?

[sajbalk]

Perhaps it is not too big of a deal, but the current mini-map has a Canadian city/port that will never be iced in. I think it is in the Maritime provinces. The MWiF map does not. A Canadian unit coming on the map in the winter will likely not be able to get anywhere useful until next turn.
 
The map is certainly correct, but I wanted to call attention to the effect.
 
 

[JagdFlanker]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here is the Newfoundland, Newbrunswick, and Lower Québec areas.
Here there is nothing modified, only the coastlines added.

i know you havn't actually modified anything here, but just letting you know cape breton nova scotia (where sydney is) is noticably out of wack - it's twisted right at almost a 90 degree angle, and (for all intents and purposes)there's not supposed to be a huge split in the middle. also the bay of fundy (between st john and yarmouth) is much wider than it's supposed to be making new brunswick look short and stocky. it doesn't look THAT bad so no biggie if you don't change it (i'm moving to new brunswick in 3 days which is why i mention it [;)] )

[Manic Inertia]

What are the white hexes, tundra? What rules are used for them?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Perhaps it is not too big of a deal, but the current mini-map has a Canadian city/port that will never be iced in. I think it is in the Maritime provinces. The MWiF map does not. A Canadian unit coming on the map in the winter will likely not be able to get anywhere useful until next turn.

The map is certainly correct, but I wanted to call attention to the effect.

You're right indeed.
The (c) 2000 America minimap has Halifax as a city and Major Port.
The (c) 1998 AiF America map has it as a Major Port.
The (c) 1996 America minimap had not Halifax, but only Sidney as a minor port at this place.

As the (c) 2000 America minimap is the latest ADG production for WiF FE, I take it that ADG intention is to make Halifax a city plus a major port.
Moreover, the Canada 1941 census that someone posted on these forums has it that Halifax has 123k inhabitants in 1941.

So I will make Halifax a city. Comments ?

[Froonp]

are any of these boondocky hexes invadable?

If there are all sea hexside, they will be.
There is no rule for boondocky hexes in WiF FE.

Adding one could be a good idea, but then all MWiF all sea hexsides coastal hexes would have to be reviewed to check if they are invadable or if they are too boondocky hexes to be invaded. I already know Steve's answer.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Manic Inertia
What are the white hexes, tundra? What rules are used for them?

Movement cost are as mountain, combat effect are as clear terrain.
I take it that this is a step between forest and jungle, with no tree cover. Edit : Only thick brushes.

[Froonp]

i know you havn't actually modified anything here, but just letting you know cape breton nova scotia (where sydney is) is noticably out of wack - it's twisted right at almost a 90 degree angle, and (for all intents and purposes)there's not supposed to be a huge split in the middle. also the bay of fundy (between st john and yarmouth) is much wider than it's supposed to be making new brunswick look short and stocky. it doesn't look THAT bad so no biggie if you don't change it (i'm moving to new brunswick in 3 days which is why i mention it )

I see I had it wrong with Cape Breton island, I'll redraw it.
For the Bay of Fundy, I'll try at improving it. I understand that I should make it slimmer, is it that ? Also Nova Scotia should be a little slimmer south of Halifax, shouldn't it ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

are any of these boondocky hexes invadable?

If there are all sea hexside, they will be.
There is no rule for boondocky hexes in WiF FE.

Adding one could be a good idea, but then all MWiF all sea hexsides coastal hexes would have to be reviewed to check if they are invadable or if they are too boondocky hexes to be invaded. I already know Steve's answer.

All right, I have to step in here - after all I majored in English.

Boondocks is a quasi-slang term referring to places far removed from civilization. "Out in the boondocks" or "out in the sticks" means locations where few people live, indeed, where few people would want to live. Boondocky was thrust upon an unsuspecting world by M. Zimmerman. I, for one, would like to see it slide back into non-existence.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Manic Inertia
What are the white hexes, tundra? What rules are used for them?

Movement cost are as mountain, combat effect are as clear terrain.
I take it that this is a step between forest and jungle, with no tree cover. Edit : Only thick brushes.

No. Tundra is a very specific type of land surface. It is frozen underneath and thaws out to a kind of muddy slush during the summer, though never enough to completely melt. It is very common in Siberia, Alaska, and Northern Canada. The trend towards global warming these days is partly substantiated by the loss of tundra acreage in Alaska. There are specialized plant and animal life that live in tundra.

[JagdFlanker]

thought i'd post anther pic of the area with the border hi-lited to fill in my double post. it's a 1915 atlas map with rail lines.

just so you know what i mean about the miramichi river here is a little blurb on it's size right at the top of the article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham,_New_Brunswick

the st john river (it's mouth is at st john) might be big enough to include on the map also.

[JagdFlanker]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I see I had it wrong with Cape Breton island, I'll redraw it.
For the Bay of Fundy, I'll try at improving it. I understand that I should make it slimmer, is it that ? Also Nova Scotia should be a little slimmer south of Halifax, shouldn't it ?

for easy editing purposes the south shore of new brunswick should follow an almost straight line from charlottetown, PEI to portland, maine. at least mainland nova scotia is generally the right idea so no worries there!

i guess i can mention that the coast of new brunswick just below the gaspe peninsula is a little "pointy". i'm moving to the end of the little inlet there (miramichi city, formerly RCAF station Chatham flight training school during WW II) and the miramichi river is very wide for a ways inland so i extended the river a little.

also the maine/new brunswick border is too far west so i moved it in a little.

[JagdFlanker]

upon further research i discovered that the rail line i erased below was damaged by a flood in 1933 and never repaired so through traffic was not possible.

[JagdFlanker]

here is a 1915 map of rails going through ontario - unfortunatly the only other map i have is 1957, but really there's not much added beyond this map due to that dang automobile invention

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

ORIGINAL: Froonp
I see I had it wrong with Cape Breton island, I'll redraw it.
For the Bay of Fundy, I'll try at improving it. I understand that I should make it slimmer, is it that ? Also Nova Scotia should be a little slimmer south of Halifax, shouldn't it ?

for easy editing purposes the south shore of new brunswick should follow an almost straight line from charlottetown, PEI to portland, maine. at least mainland nova scotia is generally the right idea so no worries there!

i guess i can mention that the coast of new brunswick just below the gaspe peninsula is a little "pointy". i'm moving to the end of the little inlet there (miramichi city, formerly RCAF station Chatham flight training school during WW II) and the miramichi river is very wide for a ways inland so i extended the river a little.

also the maine/new brunswick border is too far west so i moved it in a little.

I've modified it, here is it again.
I did not modify the border the same way you did, and I straightened the south shore of New Brunswick.
I did not add the rivers though, because I'm not sure they should appear on the map at this scale.

[Manic Inertia]

I think the white hexes look grouse (excellent), much more aesthetically appropriate for the arctic .. in what way do the rules for them differ from those for swamps?
 

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Manic Inertia

I think the white hexes look grouse (excellent), much more aesthetically appropriate for the arctic .. in what way do the rules for them differ from those for swamps?

I don't think there are special rule for them.
Here are the terrain effect chart, that I took from old CWiF and where I put the MWiF new terrain graphics inside.

[hakon]

One point that should be given particular attention, related to the american map, is the distance that a land based nav need to fly from the US/Canada to reach the Central Atlantic sea zone. This should be AT LEAST as far as when using the american mini-map. I dont have the maps in front of me, but i seem to remember that the asia-sized american map makes it slightly too easy to put navs into north atlantic.
 
It is already hard enough for germany to wage effective sub warfare vs the CW, so early in the war, the CW should have to use CV-s (or Iceland) to cover the atlantic gap with navs.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: hakon
One point that should be given particular attention, related to the american map, is the distance that a land based nav need to fly from the US/Canada to reach the Central Atlantic sea zone. This should be AT LEAST as far as when using the american mini-map. I dont have the maps in front of me, but i seem to remember that the asia-sized american map makes it slightly too easy to put navs into north atlantic.

It is already hard enough for germany to wage effective sub warfare vs the CW, so early in the war, the CW should have to use CV-s (or Iceland) to cover the atlantic gap with navs.

USA - Central Atlantic distance
Using the America Minimap (1996) : 24 MP
Using the America Minimap (2000) : 18 MP
Using the America AiF map : 9 MP
Using MWiF : 14-15 MP.

Sydney / Halifax (Nova Scotia) - Central Atlantic distance
Using the America Minimap : 18 MP
Using the America AiF map : 7-8 MP
Using MWiF : 16 MP.

USA - North Atlantic distance
Using the America Minimap (1996) : 24 MP
Using the America Minimap (2000) : 24 MP
Using the America AiF map : 11 MP
Using MWiF : 23 MP

Sydney / Halifax (Nova Scotia) - North Atlantic distance
Using the America Minimap : 18 MP
Using the America AiF map : 8 MP
Using MWiF : 15 MP

Overall, I think that MWiF got it very well.

Also, I discussed a few years ago of a similar topic with Harry, to tell him that USA / Pacific distances were greater with MWiF than with AiF, and he told me that MWiF was more accurate regarding distances.

After having reviewed most of the maps, and checked some USA / Pacific distances with real world distance (using Google Earth to measure real distances), I found out that he was right.

[Executioner Five]

Long Island shouldn't be connected the way it currently is on the map...it would have been way to easy to have those bridges blown in case of an Axis invasion.  I don't know myself what the right depiction is...but I dont' think the current one can be it.