Stock FitE Karri vs Larry

[Karri]

Turn 23 and Stalino fell. Doubt that Larry's gonna get it back since he has no units in the vicinity. Also his units in and around Kharkov are pretty much defeated. There are maybe 3-5 fresh divisions sitting in Kharkov but destroying the rest is just a mopping up operation for me.

[Karri]

Turn 23, area of importance:


Explanation:
1. This is the 'Smolensk encirclement'. 15 different division encircled here. A little up north and several division were destroyed there this turn. Enemy lost around 300-400 tanks. A little up from there and there's 6 more encircled division there.

2. This is the Soviet Line that is still intact. However as you can see it is being threathened from both flanks. The northern part consists mostly of Soviet tank brigades and mp units. Nothing there that could stop me forever...slow down for sure though. However considering that I broke through a much stronger line in two points, and I now have all those units and artillery to strike though in one point...I should be able to make it through in here.

3. This is the Kharkov area. Most of the Soviet units here are encircled or almost destroyed. 1 or 2 more turns here and without serious reinforcements the enemy has nothing opposing my forces. Which essentially means I can drive northwards until I have surrounded everything between Moscow and Kharkov. In fact as you can see, a little north-east there are few lone blue spots. Those are the advance elements of my panzer divisions.

In total so far 45 division size units are either encircled or about to be(meaning that they canno't escape the area).

4. The only way for any unit in this area to escape certain death is to first disengage and then to make a run for the 3 ports still in Soviet area. Right now 2 flak units and 1 infantry unit can do that. The rest need at least 1 turn(most need 2 or 3) to reach those ports...I need only 1 turn to reach those ports as well so I pretty much think they're all done with. Larry seems to have reached the same conclusion since he did quite a few attacks with those units.

I counted about 55 division size units, and some support units.


All in all, about 120 division are going to be destroyed in the coming turns. Quite a force...what was the historical amount anyone?

Anyways, if I manage to close the 'bryansk' encirclement that number will double. However I still need to remember my most important goal which is to capture as many important cities as possible...and perhaps drive for Moscow..?

[Shawkhan]

"Now defending in depth is really the only way to defend against this tactic. Ie. it is better to have 2 lines of fresh fortified infantry divisions than one line with 2 fresh fortified units in each hex. This way once the enemy breaks the first line he is already a bit exhausted and has to face the second line which is fresh."
 
 
...Karri's description of Russian defense in two lines reminds me of Hannibal's tactics at Zama. Hope it works better than it did for Hannibal. [:'(]

[SMK-at-work]

Hey it worked really well for Hannibal - he as winning the infantry fight until the Roman cavalry returned and hit his troops in the rear!!

2 lines is definitely the ay to go - more if possible. The front line has to be strong enough to resist simpleattacks - ie you don'twant it so weak that it will be pushed back by 1 axis divisions.  But as Karri points out it shuoldnt' be so strong that little units "observing" for artillery cause massive causalties.  IMO the ideal is 1 Division + an AT unit of some sort - a tank brigade, AT regiment, even a recce Regt.  Can't always do that of course, but a Tank division with an infantry brigade isn't too bad either.

The 2nd line is where you want to be fairly sure of stopping anything short of the largest  attacks, so at elast 2 divisions per hex.

Subsequent lines can get away with a division or less IMO because their function is only to stop unfettered exploitation.

Of course soaking off with artillery works both ways, especialy if the Sov has his frontal artillery well organised, and anywhere in range of the forts or fleets!!

[Telumar]

In the open you should definitely have some armour or anti-tank unit stacked with the infantry. First there and if you have some spare units of this sort then you can send them to heavier terrain, but better use AT Guns there and tanks in the open. Assault Guns can be put into cities while tanks certainly perform not well in urban areas.

For the case this is not known to anyone yet: Don't forget to move your engineers from stack to stack to reach the 'fortified' status in time before the Panzerkeil gets near. (You need not to order the engineers to dig in, their mere presence will help the entrenching units to reach a better entrenchment status, in most cases you can reach E within one round)
This also means: Don't waste your engineers as speed dumps.

[SMK-at-work]

I didn't realise that just being in a hex helps!!  I'd certainly used them to help entrench, but always by entrenching themselves - thanks for that!
 
Certainly terrain matters - infantry in an urban or heavy forrest hex can probably do without the anti-armour help if their own AT is at full strength but you still need something extra to a division - an NKVD regiment would be a minimum...well actually it is the minimum isn't it, 'cos there's nothing much smaller!![8|]
 
Engineers are never speed bumps - they are far too useful for gettign troops away across rivers, and/or at least allowing them to return some of their capacity to the pool when they are destroyed while being backed up to a super-river!![:(]

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Telumar
Don't forget to move your engineers from stack to stack to reach the 'fortified' status in time before the Panzerkeil gets near. (You need not to order the engineers to dig in, their mere presence will help the entrenching units to reach a better entrenchment status, in most cases you can reach E within one round)

You mean "F" don't you?

[SMK-at-work]

I doubt it - I don't think I've ever seen anything get to "F" in one round of entrenchments, with engineering help or not.  Getting to E in one round is a pretty good bonus - sometimes units can sit at "D" for 3 or more rounds [:(]

[larryfulkerson]

So um.......here's the Soviet turn 25 minimap moves movie from turns 21 thru 25:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some of the Soviet losses so far:

[larryfulkerson]

I, for one would be curious to know what the Axis losses are right about now.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the minimap moves movie from turns 22 throu 26:

[Karri]

Turns 23 to 28:


I shall post more screens and the casualty figures once we hit the mud period.

[Karri]

As you can see historically speaking I am doing worse in Leningrad, somewhat worse in Moscow and somewhat better in Center and South. My strategy in the start was to attack with overwhelming force in Center and South while leaving Moscow and Leningrad alone. However due to some circumstances I concentrated more force in Leningrad area and Smolensk area than I had planned to. In Leningrad my offensive failed and I decided to move the units there elsewhere. I did fight some good attritional warfare there and I suppose I eliminated several thousand Soviet rifle squads there. The panzer units also got some good resting there  and were ready to exploit the breakthrough gained in Ukraine.

I also planned to do four offensives, of which I actually did three. The missing one was supposed to happen South of Bryansk. However I lacked the force and most importantly artillery to attack there. I was suppsoed to do total of four encirclements. Smolensk, where I did encircle a good number of units. Around Bryansk where I encircled none, between Bryansk and Kharkov where I am now encircling a pretty decent number of units(actually I am destroying the whole Soviet line there) and from Kharkov to the sea of Azov where the Soviet units are now almost completely encircled.

This gives me a pretty good change to make it to Stalingrad after the mud dries out and before the Soviet ocunter-offensive starts. The new German linebefore mud I suppose will run along the Don river.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet perspective of the minimap moves movie from turns 24 thru 28:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some Soviet losses so far:

[SMK-at-work]

So the Sov replacement rates are still fairly high, they have lots of units in theatre, and even still a small stock of rifle squads.

Their position may be crap in many respects, but ther resources are doing reasonably well!

[Karri]

Actually, most of those cities I was supposed to capture haven't still fallen. At least one 10% city and 3 5% will change hands before mud(or after).

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some of the Soviet losses as of turn 30:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet view of the minimap moves movie from turns 26 thru 30: