Buzz/Larry FITE modded 4b Sov T1

[Zort]

Not really turn 15 but turns 11-14. Really not much happening except lots of attacks to clear all the guys in front of me. SMK has been very aggressive and puts someone in front of me all the time. I am killing between 20-30 units a turn but these are his throw away units. My losses have been very bad. Seems that SMK's units are starting to collapse a little easier. Not sure but maybe I am running into his rebuilt guys that have bad numbers.

[larryfulkerson]

I for one would be curious to see what the Axis losses are in larry/SMK's games.

[Zort]

Here are the axis losses at the end of their turn 12. SMK has killed almost 3k more the Larry has.

[SMK-at-work]

ORIGINAL: Zort
SMK has been very aggressive and puts someone in front of me all the time. I am killing between 20-30 units a turn but these are his throw away units.

they only become throw away units when they can't run away any more!!

My losses have been very bad. Seems that SMK's units are starting to collapse a little easier. Not sure but maybe I am running into his rebuilt guys that have bad numbers.

Well you've dug me out of the best defensive positions - Kiev and Orsha-Vitebsk, so the next line is simply not as well prepared - plus a lot of the front artillery has been destroyed so there's less artillery support all round.

There's a few recently reconstructed units in the front - but not all that many - most are still rebuilding in positions well back - consider them the 4th, 5th and 6th lines!! Those that have been pushed forward are mainly in quiet areas where they've replaced units that are in better condidion that have then moved to more active sectors. Or they have been sitting still for 2-3 or more turns just digging in and waiting for eth onslaught.

Also I see you have more "green" units out front than you did a turn or 2 ago - presumably some of those infantry division reinforcements have made it to the front at last - they are certainly more effective than the 4-4, 5-6 and 6-8 "red" regiments!!

However a few have been rebuilt right on the front lines - eg at Murmansk a militia division and a rifle division appeared exactly where they would do the most good - that was quite handy [;)]

However on the plus side the lack of rail has meant a few armies are moving up "en masse" complete with their HQ's, and will be in good conditions when you do meet them. Also I've figured out that putting "front" HQ's at intervals along the route of march from Grozny so that they are adjacent to replacements at the end of each march stage really helps get reconstructed unit effectiveness up.

[Zort]

Yea I dug you out but at a cost. I have been using all the art that I can find, esp from the div hq's. Did find one german inf div hq that has no art in it, will correct that in my next mod. Now that your planes are up there have been plenty of attacks that just stopped and you lost nothing.

I got some green divs now. Even found a pz div that I had hardly used!! It's only yellow. I've learned a bunch and having to rest your units is a neat concept. Now I just have to practice it. It's hard not pushing forward with everything all the time.

I should have all my divisons that lost units back to full strength next turn. Well there was one div that was whiped out that will take a little longer. Of course if I would remember to finish their rail movement and not "find" them a couple of turns later it would be helpful.

All in all this has been interesting. In the last game Larry and I played he had on turn 11 around 741 units. This game he is at 729 and SMK is less then that by about 10 or so. (think I got the numbers right). Examining the differences in the games, last game sov shock was lower, I think that is the only difference. I guess I am getting a little better.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet turn 13 minimap moves movie from turns 9 thru 13:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some of the Soviet losses so far:

[SMK-at-work]

And here's my equivalent - lots more losses of everything of course...except enemy a/c, but then his AS value is a bit lower than in Larry's....but perhaps he's just resting up...?

[Zort]

One of the differences in the games is the Finnish house rule we are using in SMK's and my game. This is causing him to garrison the finish borders thus taking guys off his main line. These HRs are:

1. you can make limited attacks anywhere.

2. Between Lake Lagoda and the Baltic/Gulf of Finland yuo can make "real" attacks and/or advance into any hex not occupied by a division equivalent.

3. North of Lake Lagoda you can only advance into an empty hex if it is not ZOC'ed by a division-equivalent, or to advance to be adjacent to that occupied hex (ie you can move up to Sov units, but not pass between them if there's gaps that are covered by ZOC's)

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the 14th Soviet turn's minimap moves movie from turns 10 thru 14:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the 15th Soviet turn's minimap from turns 11 throu 15:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's some Soviet losses so far:

[Telumar]

Nice. Looks like there is a big bulge forming around/near Smolensk. I think we will see some interesting action there in the near future.

[Zort]

I finally have both games on the same turn. Don't know if that is good or bad since there are tactical differences between them. Here are the axis loss comparison.

What is interesting to me is even though Larry has done the run away defense and SMK has been an aggressive counter attacker I am almost in the same spot in both games. The areas that SMK has left undefended I am starting to find and pushing semi rested troops thru them. (picture next post)

[Zort]

I now have taken Minsk/Kiev/Dnepr.../Odessa in both games. I finally tried to do what others have recommended and attacked at limited/mininized. Seems to work better. Once I clear out the soviet artie the front line troops want to surrender very quickly. I punched one hole in Larry's line to the south near Dnepr... and found another in the north. Otherwise he has a string of units from north to south. SMK is all over the place.

[SMK-at-work]

Interesting - I see your bulk of units is well advanced on Larry's line in places like east of Kiev, but a move away from mine there.
 
also Larry is going to have to pull out of that defence he has on the land bridge soon, or the whole lot will be trapped, and that would make our losses a lot more even!!
 
I'm still fairly happy with my situation overall - the Soviets simply cannot defend everywhere and it is a mistake to try to do so.  they have to delay and annoy - inflict losses and use up Axis supply. 
 
Standing and fighting shold only be done where it is a useful tactic - and the open spaces south of Kiev and Bryansk are not a real good place for the relatively clumsy Soviet formatinos to try to stem the Axis juggernaut - there's good reasons why the Axis was able to advance so much further in the south than the north historically.
 
It's also interesting to see what yuo cannot see!! [;)]

[Zort]

Yea it is interesting to see the other side, especially as the soviets. Good thing we are playing a friendly game!!

So where are your maps?[;)]

[SMK-at-work]

hiding - you can see far too much already!! [8D]

[SMK-at-work]

t16 has been and gone - not much from the Axis - expanding bridgeheads over the Dneistr south of Kiev was entirely predictable, and Soviet forces are withdrawing to further rive lines to (mostly) avoid being trapped.
 
Local counterattacks south of Lenningrad and around Smolensk hit depleted German units and force many of them to retire, often in confusion.  A couple of divisions a bit further south find a weak point in the German lines, easily over-run exhausted front line units sending them fleeing 10, 20, even 30km to the rear, over run some reserve troops and attack railway repair units.  No doubt a flash in the pan, but still very satisfying[8D]  Some engineers and recce troops out front also take punishment. 
 
The Baltic fleet and heavy guns around Lenningrad have been in action against nearby Finnish units, and many reinforcements have been sent to the Lenningrad Oblast in anticipation of further Axis attacks.  Heavy fighting around the Luga river line has seen no advantage to either side - Axis units are exhausted, brave defenders of the motherland are nearly so, but also elated at holding the fascist assaults and even pushing them back in some areas.  More troops are preparing defences on the outskirts of Leningrad and the swamps and forests to its south.  The fascists will not have an easy time of it here!!
 
The Finnish front is quiet - German units in the Arctic are becoming more active but are stalled in front of Murmansk and are regularly being attritioned by local Soviet attacks.  Finnish units are mostly quiet - they've taken some losses and are on a seperate replacement regime in this game - IIRC only 17 Finnish rifle squads are received each turn, so they have to be a bit careful with their manpower. 
 
Reserve units have been railed into Kharkov and Bryansk to prepare those cities for the upcoming axis assaults, and units are being ferried into the Crimea likewise.  The Perekop Isthmus, crossings of the Sivash and the Arabat Spit are all heavily fortified many kilometers deep, and further fortifications are being prepared even further into the Penninsular in case the fascists somehow manage to break through the brave defenders there.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Soviet turn 16 minimap moves movie from turns 12 thru 16: