You're losing sales with no demo/high price

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Burzmali

Pasrenakski, that still doesn't make any sense.

Of course not. If I made sense, I sure as hell wouldn't be posting here.

[mogami]

Hi

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.


"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"


He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.


And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!


One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.


"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

[Jaws_slith]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

There are roughly 60,000 records worth of data. You might want to think about the fact that multiple people have been working for over 3 years collecting and correcting that data.

Forget the game itself, just look at the data. This is why simulators and historical games cost a fortune to produce. You have to do tons of research.

Uhhh.... 60.000.... tons... We need to get some transport over there[:D]

Man I think I play this game to long… If we invite potential buyers to read this forum… they will buy. $70 is not much for an addiction… cigarettes or alcohol are far more expensive[;)]

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

I said this in another thread earlier this evening. I love this game. I am not playing it as much as I thought I would, but I love it. When I walk away I save the file and it is there. I bought SPI's War in the Pacific in 1979 for $50.00. I loved that game (I still have it). It took 8 hours to set up, took up a full bedroom or the dining room of that apartment in 1979. Now it would take up the full playroom upstairs in my house. It only came out 2 or 3 times in full mode. There were something like 4000 units and various playing aids to set up. With WiTP, "Oh I am done for the night, save the file turn off the computer" and go do something else. All for $70.00 in 2004/2005 dollars. I also own Pacific Victory by Victory games and I like playing it. Not as much setup time but I still cannot leave it up too long. Also a lot of manual record keeping in both games.

Oh, how that brings back memories!

And don't forget the attack of the dust bunnies and malicious feline counter-attacks!

Yea, the greatest thing about WiTP is that you can save the game, turn off the computer, and come back another day and pick up where you left off!

I do think the game should be prices at no more than $49.95 for a download though. Perhaps, this is a classic that should drop in price about $10 a year as it ages until everyone can eventually afford it at $20.

Actually, perhaps the entire Matrix lineup should have a depreciation schedule for downloads that reflects what we see happening in the retail world. I mean, it's unreal to think that a game intially priced at $70 wouldn't be in the $20 bargain bins by now if it had been widely available in the retail marketplace. {yea, yea I know the economic theory of mass market games that quickly fade away} but I don't think a direct seller like Matrix should be exempt from aggressive discounting of older titles as they mature.

That said, I salute the pricing trends that I have seen in the last six months! I think Matrix is headed in the right direction, but WiTP seems to be the exception.

[Rob322]

Jeez, this thread is still going on? [8|] It is what it is what it is. Some folks don't seem to be bothered by the price and bought the game, some wish it were cheaper and presumably haven't purchased it. I've seen this same thread pop up for some games than were $10-20 less. Would more people buy this game if it were cheaper? Maybe, or maybe not. Is this a niche game because of the price they charge or because of the way they choose to cover the topic of War in the Pacific? Is Guinness more expensive than Budweiser simply because that's what they want to do or is it something more?

Ultimately, the choice of course is theirs. If they've overpriced it and lost a large mass of eager customers out there then that's their mistake. If not, then they accomplished what they set out to do. Time will tell. Anyhow, enough of this, off to find a thread that talks about the game, not this little pricing issue.

[pasternakski]

And neither would HE, tweedledee.

[Stavka_lite]

Ya know... If people don't like the price, packaging, content font size or what ever they just to need pick up on of the alternative naval strategy games on the market, like Battleship and leave the rest of us alone

A4

Hit
You sank my battleship

[Mr.Frag]

A4

Hit
You sank my battleship

Don't forget Axis & Allied ... dice roll ... six snake eyes ... there goes the entire Pacific Fleet!

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Don't forget Axis & Allied ... dice roll ... six snake eyes ... there goes the entire Pacific Fleet!

Yeah, that's how it goes when you have an entire world at war...

[Zap]

...I think they should release it in box form for 49.95...maybe they can build up the cutomer base...

I've happily accepted the price of $70.00 for WitP(digital; $10.00 for the disk). Because I know the value of such a game. Matrix has put a lot of money into the development of this game and deserve a fair return on their investment. This is a capitalistic society (And I make no apologies for a capitalist society!). But I really don't believe that Matrix is making a ungodly amount of $ on the game.

I trust them to make the best decisiones to keep their company viable. This, should be the primary reason for the price of the game. I want Matrix to suceed because that will mean many more quality games.
Bringing down the price (For now), for a small increase in sales will not meet the end goal of Matrix (stay in business and make great games).

Someone said that this board is loaded with those in favor of keeping the price where it is. Be assured, all that have replied have been civil (if maybe a little frank). Please feel free to express what you want here.

[eMonticello]

I respectfully disagree that the retail market is worthwhile for WITP.

By my back-of-the-envelope calculations, at a retail price of $40, they would probably lose money. Retail returns range between 20-60% (to obtain 5,000 sales, they would need to produce between 6,250 and 12,500 boxes), retailers mark-up is generally 30-50% and distributor mark-up could be somewhere around 25-30%. Publishers will need to take a cut (say 10%), someone needs to pay for return shipping (say $1/unit returned), and, of course, there's Cost of Goods (say $5/unit). If the moons of Jupiter are aligned, they could squeak by with almost $40,000. Worst case, they could lose $50,000. This also assumes that they don't pay retail slotting fee.

I do believe, however, that target marketing and more effective use of customer data would yield much better results. They have about 4 years of customer data available and could supplement it with survey data to help with identifying prospects and cross-selling products to current customers.

ORIGINAL: Rossj

Even if packaging and distribution was $40...and I doubt it would be that high...they'd still take in a few bucks and increase the fan base...somebody posted that we don't wan't a bunch of xbox junkies...I dont think that is an issue...look, I'm mot a distribution expert, but I don't believe there's mush risk in producing 5,000 boxed versions for distro to software stores...even if 2by3/matrix broke even we'd essentially double the fan base and generate more interest for future upgrades or new projects

[denisonh]

Looking at it in an empirical manner yields a better understanding of the issue.

If a is the number or customers who would buy WitP if is was $50 or $70, and b are those that would only buy if it was $50, then we are looking at the decision point being :

(a+b)*$50 > a*$70

Using algebra, solve for b

In this case, if b is more than 40% of the "grognard population", the assertion would hold true.

But I significantly doubt that this is the case.

[bradfordkay]

Now you're using logic. No fair.

[eMonticello]

My calculations assume that there is an incremental demand for 5,000 units using the retail distribution channel. The problem is we don't know where those folks are, hence the inclusion of the retail return rate and the higher production runs. Since UV was sold through retail outlets, Matrix should already have reasonably good numbers of total market size, the incremental demand through retail distribution, return rate, and post-production unit costs associated with the retail market. They may even have data on demand elasticity, although this may be elusive if the retailers didn't share that information.

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Looking at it in an empirical manner yields a better understanding of the issue.

If a is the number or customers who would buy WitP if is was $50 or $70, and b are those that would only buy if it was $50, then we are looking at the decision point being :

(a+b)*$50 > a*$70

Using algebra, solve for b

In this case, if b is more than 40% of the "grognard population", the assertion would hold true.

But I significantly doubt that this is the case.

[Ron Saueracker]

I wonder how much adds in magazines would run? Maybe "Proceedings", Sea Classics, Air Classics, World War Two, Military History maybe. Avalon Hill used to publish their own called "The General"...perhaps this is worth looking into now considering the number of projects Matrix is undertaking as a publisher.

[Stavka_lite]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I wonder how much adds in magazines would run? Maybe "Proceedings", Sea Classics, Air Classics, World War Two, Military History maybe. Avalon Hill used to publish their own called "The General"...perhaps this is worth looking into now considering the number of projects Matrix is undertaking as a publisher.

In a thread some time ago I advocated this very strategy and was scoffed at. Now maybe, hopefully, Matrix will look at this marketing strategy a little more seriously now that it has an "endorsement" that has some name recognition. buying ads in specialty magazines is not a waste of money but an investment. Magazines like "Preceedings" etc would be the ideal target, naval officers just eat this stuff up. I will say it again at the risk of being flamed again, relying on reviews in PC gaming magazines is a mistake. While on the surface they seem like the logical thing to do but the wrong market is targeted. This is a specialty game and so is the Korsun series, and as such these games need specilized marketing. Matrix should not adopt strategy that uses or depends on (nearly)free advertising, i.e. game reviews. I would venture to say that more sales were generated by their website than the published reviews. Pricing and packaging do not mean diddly. This forum has already proven that the market can handle the price (economics 101) and thinking that reducing the price and jazzing up the box will sell more copies is also a mistake. One that can be forgiven because it seems so obvious. I am sure that sales are still trickling in but I think it would be safe to say that just about everybody who is aware of the game has already purchased it. Creative and logical marketing is what is called for now. Just a thought... what do you think would happen if Matrix donated a dozen copies of WitP to the Naval Warfare College and Annapolis? and mabye even giving a few copies to the RN and the RAN, oh, hell, why not the JNSDF too! Battlefront has managed to get their Combat Mission series licencsed by the Austrialian Army so this strategy does work.

[Mike Scholl]

Hey..., I've got a really radical idea.....Why don't we assume that the guys at 2by3 don't all have
their heads up their butts and chose the price based on trying to get a rational return on their
investment of time and effort?....Like breaking even..., because I will bet you that none of them
are getting rich on WITP.

It is their product, and in the end the price is their choice......So if you want to invest hundreds of
hours of your time creating your own game, by all means feel free to sell it at whatever price
you choose.....Until then, let the people who made the product set the price.....At the rate I'm
going, I figure WITP is going to cost me about 7 cents an hour for the entertainment I recieve.
That's a bargan in any language.

[m10bob]

Let's face it,"games" and even books are a luxury item.Some people are going thru some rough times and have to be very spend concious with what they do have to throw around,(food,utilities and housing must be a priority.)
If on the other hand,a person does have the cash to invest in "games" or books, they would want to seek the most "bang for the buck'
If someone is really into history,and the history of the war in the Pacific in particular,this "game"(WITP) is the "leather-bound",gold embossed product to acquire.
No excuses and no exceptions.
As far as demos,well,I tried a demo of Steel Panthers years ago on my Windows 3.1 cpu,and it *sucked* with a capital "s"..(Thank God I later acquired the game,it was NOTHING like the demo and I'm still playing it's grandson,(SPWAW)..
I purchased UV and I will still endorse it yet as an absolute "must have",(unless you can get WITP).
If you must have a demo,to purchase something,you will never have WITP.This is a game that has been directed at a very certain market,and not the "general public" per se.
The general public will have Monopoly,Bingo,Chutes and Ladders,Finch,etc..
The history student,military strategy grognard,veteran,etc,will have WITP,simply because it IS the pinnacle of WW2 era strategy games,(for the Pacific exclusively at present,and I hope it will expand to other areas of the world).
I don't think Matrix Games is trying to compete with the general gaming community,nor do I think they would be able to,and survive.
Matrix Games keeps their focus on the particular persons I have described above,and so long as they do not "sell out" as did other "strategy" gaming companies,Matrix will survive,with each new generation of like minded people.
Veteran's in particular (like myself), will keep their finger in the pie,long after the smoke clears,if nothing else,to keep the rest of you folks "honest",and hopefully accurate, in your historical sims..WITP is a "TEN".
If you don't agree,it's o.k...

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Hey..., I've got a really radical idea.....Why don't we assume that the guys at 2by3 don't all have
their heads up their butts and chose the price based on trying to get a rational return on their
investment of time and effort?....Like breaking even..., because I will bet you that none of them
are getting rich on WITP.

It is their product, and in the end the price is their choice......So if you want to invest hundreds of
hours of your time creating your own game, by all means feel free to sell it at whatever price
you choose.....Until then, let the people who made the product set the price.....At the rate I'm
going, I figure WITP is going to cost me about 7 cents an hour for the entertainment I recieve.
That's a bargan in any language.

Now you're just being intelligent about the whole thing. [:-] Didn't you get the memo that it's a bitch, moan, and whine thread and that when you try to combine those elements with logic they tend to explode violently, like bring together matter and anti-matter? Jeez Mike, you could KILL us all! [;)]

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Rob322

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Hey..., I've got a really radical idea.....Why don't we assume that the guys at 2by3 don't all have
their heads up their butts and chose the price based on trying to get a rational return on their
investment of time and effort?....Like breaking even..., because I will bet you that none of them
are getting rich on WITP.

It is their product, and in the end the price is their choice......So if you want to invest hundreds of
hours of your time creating your own game, by all means feel free to sell it at whatever price
you choose.....Until then, let the people who made the product set the price.....At the rate I'm
going, I figure WITP is going to cost me about 7 cents an hour for the entertainment I recieve.
That's a bargan in any language.

Now you're just being intelligent about the whole thing. [:-] Didn't you get the memo that it's a bitch, moan, and whine thread and that when you try to combine those elements with logic they tend to explode violently, like bring together matter and anti-matter? Jeez Mike, you could KILL us all! [;)]

My apologies Rob......You're absolutely correct....Intelligence, Reality, and Common Sense have no place in this forum.....Every so often I have a couple drinks too many and forget the true purpose here is to spread fanboy nonsense and insult the other participants.....Please forgive me for my foolishness.