ALLIED ONLY: aztez (A) vs erstad (J) ...2nd ROUND

[aztez]

Burma (january 1st - 4th 1943)


The second assault againts Magwe olfield and airfield turned out badly.

I hat my bombers on 15 000 feet, escort fighters at 22 000 feet and sweep missions at 24 000 feet.

The sweep missions went in first. Too bad I had 100 fighters doing this but they were splitted up...

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Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 22
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 29
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 66



Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 24


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 22
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 26
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 59



Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 25


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 32 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 21
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 21
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 48



Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 24


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 6 destroyed

....and very bad start for sure.

Instead of having 80 allied fighters facing enemy CAP there were +20 of them. An good way to get squadrons smashed.

Than came the bombers....

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Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 20
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 13
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 31



Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 15
Hurricane IIc Trop x 23
B-25C Mitchell x 31


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged
Hurricane IIc Trop: 4 destroyed
B-25C Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)



Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 6
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 4
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 20



Allied aircraft
Hudson IIIa x 3
Hurricane IIc Trop x 16
Liberator II x 9
Wellington Ic x 18
B-24D Liberator x 5


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson IIIa: 1 damaged
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed
Liberator II: 9 damaged
Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Oil hits 1
Runway hits 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 19
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 23
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 30



Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 13


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 13
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 20
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 19



Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 5
Wellington Ic x 9


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 5 damaged
Wellington Ic: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 4
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 6
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9



Allied aircraft
Hudson IIIa x 7


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson IIIa: 5 destroyed

There were more missions pretty much as this. Dave stated that he lost some 40-60 aircraft so he got around 3:1 ratio here. I have no doubt he is pleased.
Next time around I will keep my bombers and fighters max. 2000 feet apart of each other.

Needless to say we need ne reorganize once more before next wave. I might start pushing my infantry units forward though soon.

[aztez]

Intel screen january 1943

[aztez]

Aircraft losses...

[aztez]

Top Aces..

[aztez]

Fighter replacement pools...

[aztez]

Bomber replacement pools...

[aztez]

Pacific (january 5th - 10th 1943)


The game has progressed few turns ahead. No major offensives or action to report.

Allied side is mainly training, preparing and repairing for the things to come. I will start to increase the recon and search patrols around the map since I want to get better intel on his positions.

This is the "peace" time for this PBEM and it suits me well.

I will have 3 extra carriers back in action within +2 months time. CV Hornet (almost repaired), CV Wasp (+2 months off) and RN carrier will arrive at Balbo soon.

I'am also planning on releasing extra US division next turn from the WC. That gives me additional +300av worth of infantry.

The map below shows the main events from the 3 turns.

[medicff]

There were more missions pretty much as this. Dave stated that he lost some 40-60 aircraft so he got around 3:1 ratio here. I have no doubt he is pleased.
Next time around I will keep my bombers and fighters max. 2000 feet apart of each other.

Aztez,

It is my understanding that you must fly the fighters that provide escort and ALL the bombers that you want to coordinate at EXACTLY the same altitude. The escorts will automatically fly 2000 ft (IIRC) above the bombers during the execution and are of course at a disadvantage due to coordination altitude and escort duty.

The sweeps you can set higher and hope they go in first or just keep sweeping until you have him reduced a little or fatigued. Also remember once you start getting some airfield damage you reduce his abilities to defend (less planes, more ops losses, and less repair)

great AAR still [:)]

[aztez]

medicff: Yeah. I will do exactly that when I get my airforce reorganized. It really seems that equal altitude is the best way to go.
 
We took quite an hit at Burma so it will take some time to replace these losses.
 
Currently flying recon missions all around Burma.
 
I will post an general update in turn or two. No need to do day to day analysis since both sides are preparing.
 
One quick note worth of mentioning is that Dave used Tojo's on sweep missions. These fighters were flown at 36 000 feet and managed to get 1:1 kill ratio last turn.
 
Thanks and appreciated.
 
Things will get heated soon enough but at the moment no need to "bore" the crowd on day to day basis.

[wpurdom]

The escorts will automatically fly 2000 ft (IIRC) above the bombers during the execution and are of course at a disadvantage due to coordination altitude and escort duty.

It really seems that equal altitude is the best way to go.

If I understand the comments elsewhere, it's stronger than that. If I understand what's been said, if you start your fighters 7,000 ft. above your bombers, they'll still be 2000 ft. above them when they arrive on target[&:], if they ever do [:@]
All you get from differences in altitude on escort is the chance they won't hook up.

PS - I've not seen an explanation of what happens when you have bombers coming in at 2 different levels.

[jrcar]

Correct, set them to the same altitude to escort.

Cheers

Rob

ORIGINAL: medicff

There were more missions pretty much as this. Dave stated that he lost some 40-60 aircraft so he got around 3:1 ratio here. I have no doubt he is pleased.
Next time around I will keep my bombers and fighters max. 2000 feet apart of each other.

Aztez,

It is my understanding that you must fly the fighters that provide escort and ALL the bombers that you want to coordinate at EXACTLY the same altitude. The escorts will automatically fly 2000 ft (IIRC) above the bombers during the execution and are of course at a disadvantage due to coordination altitude and escort duty.

The sweeps you can set higher and hope they go in first or just keep sweeping until you have him reduced a little or fatigued. Also remember once you start getting some airfield damage you reduce his abilities to defend (less planes, more ops losses, and less repair)

great AAR still [:)]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

I have been following quite a few AAR's. In my opinion the only ones that allied side has been succesfull have had the common nomination that japanese have not kept engaging with fighters + bombers.

Well, the Allies have a choice about whether to be engaged also. If the Allied player fights forward and meets the enemy's strength head on then, obviously, they are going to get disproportionately attrited. It is player choice. In the situations you refer to the Allied players are making the mistake of engaging the Japanese when they probably shouldn't and are paying the price for their sub-optimal choices.

IF your opponent tries to engage blow by blow than mass your fighters.

And following this advice will have crsutton end up in precisely the same situation as all the other Allied players who get hordes of poorly trained pilots blown out of the sky throughout 1942.

Just because the enemy sweeps a base doesn't mean you HAVE to engage. In my game vs 1EyedJacks I would say I actually contest less than 10% of his sweep or escorted missions.

No, I am learning to avoid his sweeps and sometimes just let him bomb. You have to pick your moments and as of June 15th, his losses in the air are slightly ahead of mine. Of course, this does not mean it is OK. There are some serious problems with the air war in this game as Japan can take and hold air superiority way too long. Biggest problem that I see is that it is just too easy to mass airpower from forward bases. The Allies should have ways to increase production in reply to Japanese offensive. Either pay PP to double production of certain aircraft for a month-or release of reserves for any Japanese offensive into, India, OZ, NZ, Noumea, Sulva, Pago Pago and so on.

Hard to imagine that some aircraft would not have been diverted from Europe if the Japanese were sitting in Townsville........

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: aztez

Aircraft losses...

My biggest issue is that with the above losses there should be a serious drop off in Japanese pilot skill. However, this does not seem to be the case.

[beppi]

With a good Training Programm Pilots with good Skills should still be available. Just the overall Experience should start to drop.
From my POV, the individual Skills are quite important, but the Experience should not be underestimated.

[aztez]

A busy week RL but we have advance couple turns. I will post an update either tomorrow or saturday. Likely update schedule will be tomorrow evening.

As usual nice to see some valuable information here and good thoughts.

wpurdom: Yeah. it seems that it working as you said. The big "if" being that they have higher chance of getting lost on the way if alltitude differs.

I have set them few times on diffrent alltitudes and it has been 50/50% of getting disorganized raids.

jrcar: Thank you. Appreciate the "official" confirmation on this issue.

I really should read more threads here but the freetime hasn't given chance to do so.

As said appreciated. Next time they will on the same alltitude.

I guess the same goes for carrier assaults`?

Ie. Torpedo bombers at 7000 feet and divenbombers + fighters at 11 000 feet. That is the best you can from carriers using that "formula".

crsutton: I do agree on the idea that somehow allied should have chance to either accelerate the production if certain terms are met.

Also, not an bad using PP to get some extra firepower available (again if certain "triggers" are met). I don't have my hopes up though since it might be too much to code into AE. As I understand after the next patch the only focus will be bug fixing.

I have no idea on how his pilot nor aircraft pools look like but to be honest I have pressed him hard as I could have.

Yeah, couple mistakes here and there but there has not been many "freebies" around.

Oh, I don't mean I have engaged every single air operation or such.. nope, but have picked my battles. Too bad my aircrews have just done "ok".

beppi: Firstly, welcome to the thread. I think Dave has paid much more attention to his training system than I have from the start.

Personally I'am not intrested of sending individual pilots in diffrent system. I have just kept on the "squadron training".

The raids and battles around the map has seen a lot of +60 exp allied squadrons.

Either he is getting better experienced crews or he is getting solid aircraft and tons of it. Or it could be both.

Even those figures might be very much FOW related. They seem to go up and down quite a lot if you keep checking them out.

[wpurdom]

Of course, this does not mean it is OK. There are some serious problems with the air war in this game as Japan can take and hold air superiority way too long. 1. Biggest problem that I see is that it is just too easy to mass airpower from forward bases. 2. The Allies should have ways to increase production in reply to Japanese offensive. Either pay PP to double production of certain aircraft for a month-or release of reserves for any Japanese offensive into, India, OZ, NZ, Noumea, Sulva, Pago Pago and so on.

Point no. 1 seems obvious in retrospect, if you even halfway believe Eric M Bergerud, the author of Fire in the Sky. And he does seem to be the expert. The Japs had hundreds of write-offs throughout the Solomons because in 1942-43 they just weren't up to minor maintainance in the jungle envoronment. The Japs have way to much aviation support - the same number of troops didn't provide a comparable level of servicing as with the US. Of course, the way its designed probably make the gae more interesting. Who would want to play the Japanese if they couldn't maintain their forward deployment of aircraft after a month's operations?
Disagree on 2. Roosevelt was under a lot of political pressure in late 1942 and suffered heavy losses in the mid-term elections due to the crisis at Guadalcanal but insisted on giiving priority to the invasion of North Africa, if he couldn't invade France. Remember that from his and Marshall's perspective, what happened in the pacific didn't really matter, but the future of world civilization turned on the outsome against Hitler, and they were dubious that Stalin could survive without taking off the pressure. Maybe the fall of Hawaii or the prospective conquest of southern Austrailia might have made a difference, but I don't know. Northern Austrailia clearly wouldn't have been enough.

[aztez]

China (january 11th - 16th 1943)


There has not any major ground offensives launched by the japanese side.

A few minor skirmishes in south and one in central china. The ones at south ending up as an Japanese victory while chinese army routed two small enemy units in central china.

The japanese are clearing their flanks which is not an suprise move by any means.

Dave is really putting numbers in daily bombing raids though. I counted around 200-300 bombers plus escorts hitting our units around the country. Mostly near Kweiyang.

There is noway allied player can contest these kind of numbers and the whole country has been turned into massive bomber training ground.

South of Kweiyang there are some 37 units present. That is +10 units when comparing againts the total few turns back. An ground assault is very likely to happen soon.

I did get an fresh chinese corps. The units av value was just below 500.

[aztez]

Burma (january 11th - 16th 1943)


As said we have now increased the recon flights here. The map below shows latest "recon findings". I'am waiting to get better reports and more details within few turns.

The allied units are gaining prep. points for out future offensives here. I don't want go in unprepared and lose troops just because of this.

The RAF bombers are gaining experince and resting. We are not yet prepared to launch massive airstrikes. The losses around Magwe pretty much dictated this.

No sign of BB Yamato TF nor Mini KB. I bet they are still lurking here though.

[aztez]

Things have somewhat quiet in past two months. As I have said numerous times this does not mean we are planning ahead.

The current operation plan gathered is at follows... (Operational names are still on "sketch" stage)

I think I will launch 3 "simultaneous offensives". The simultaneous word not to be taken literally.


Operation "Snow"

- The recapture of Cold Bay, Dutch Harbour and Umnak Island.
- This operational is mainly supported by lba assets gathered at Aleutians.
- The operation "Snow" will give us an good jumping point towards Kuriles for an possible offensive there in late 1943.


Operation "Junglebook"

- This is an offensive scheduled at Burma.
- The initial objectives of are seizing of Akyab, Mytihkina and Schwebo. Possibly even Mandaly and surrounding bases.
- This operation will bring us much closer to SRA and our LBA threat becomes much more dangerous.


Operation "Lion"

- The recapture of Pago Pago, Upolu and Savaii among with few other bases in the region.
- This will involve bulk of the naval assets available for the allied side. Including Carrires and Battleships.
- It will involve 20-30 submarines screening and hunting the area.
- Numerous large TF's loaded with troops and supplies.
- The benefits to this is that It will unite our troops gathered at Oz and NZ with US CenPac armies.
- After this is concluded the New Caledonia and Fiji's are doomed. There are units in the NZ /OZ prepping for these targets.

That is how things are shaping up to be. It will bring in a lot of fireworks when the steamroller starts.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: wpurdom

Of course, this does not mean it is OK. There are some serious problems with the air war in this game as Japan can take and hold air superiority way too long. 1. Biggest problem that I see is that it is just too easy to mass airpower from forward bases. 2. The Allies should have ways to increase production in reply to Japanese offensive. Either pay PP to double production of certain aircraft for a month-or release of reserves for any Japanese offensive into, India, OZ, NZ, Noumea, Sulva, Pago Pago and so on.

Disagree on 2. Roosevelt was under a lot of political pressure in late 1942 and suffered heavy losses in the mid-term elections due to the crisis at Guadalcanal but insisted on giiving priority to the invasion of North Africa, if he couldn't invade France. Remember that from his and Marshall's perspective, what happened in the pacific didn't really matter, but the future of world civilization turned on the outsome against Hitler, and they were dubious that Stalin could survive without taking off the pressure. Maybe the fall of Hawaii or the prospective conquest of southern Austrailia might have made a difference, but I don't know. Northern Austrailia clearly wouldn't have been enough.

Well, actually the Allies did commit more planes and ships to the Pacific theater. Reinforcments of cruisers, DDs were diverted to the Pacific after the serious losses in the Solomon's campaign, and the British loaned the Victorious out to the Pacific fleet for a few months. And, as the Allies began to do better than expected in the Pacific more men and equipment were sent to the Pacific than originally intended as success in itself had a snowballing effect.

We can agree to disagree since we can only speculate but I firmly believe that there would have been a significant diversion of resources to the Pacific not only if OZ were invaded but if the Allies lost the Solomon's campaign.

My point is that Political points are exactly what they are intended to be in game and serve very well to reflect the realities of the situation. Any diversion of resources from Europe had a determental effect politically with our Allies-especially the Soviets and the cost of PP for this kind of diversion would reflect that exactly. As the Allied player in June of 42, I still have hardly any PP to spare-so the expense of say, doubling my producton of p40Es for a month will come at a cost. So to pay Paul I will have to rob Peter. But as it is now, any Japanese player knows exactly to the plane what the Allied player is getting and by a little guesswork can really focus on a particular plane type. My suggestion allows the Allied player the option of putting a little uncertainity back into the situation-but not without some cost.