WitE 2

[sandman2575]

Yeah, given that this thread was started in 2015 and work (however preliminary) was already being done on the game at that time, I'd hope that we might see WitE2 sometime in 2018, even if only by Q3/Q4.

Not that I wish to underestimate the huge amount of work that WitE2 must require from the dev team. But it sure would be nice to get a clearer sense of where development stands and whether there's a chance WitE2 will release sometime in 2018...

[Joel Billings]

Here's where we're at. We have a working game that allows us to test the campaign and a few smaller scenarios we've created. The basics are in for most systems, but there are some major ones still being designed and implemented. Here's some of the major items left to be done:

1) Adding in functionality for air divisions, which is a level of player control between the individual squadrons/groups and the corps HQs. The intention of this system is to allow players to focus on more easily moving around air divisions and not having to micromanage exact placement of air units on specific airbases unless they wanted to. Once done, we need to develop the more automated ways to play the air game (like some of the tools we have for this in WitW, but with more functionality/flexibility than in WitW).
2) Interface face lift. We've got a number of new interface elements and we need to make the most of them while also give the interface a graphical facelift.
3. Campaign Victory conditions. We have an event editor that allows us to use events as part of the victory conditions for both small scenarios and campaigns. We have not yet decided exactly what we are going to do for Campaign victory conditions although we've kicked around a number of ideas.
4) Theater boxes and events. In the past few months we've made a lot of progress on the off-map theater boxes and events that go with them. We've added the Allied Strategic bombing events, tied to German air strength in Western Europe. We need to continue work on adding other off-map events and various tracks that go with them (Western Allied campaigns in North Africa, Italy and Western Europe, partisan activities in the Soviet Union, the Finnish front). We have many of these events happening now on a fixed schedule, but we've recently added the system to track German force values in the various TBs. We need to set requirements and the impact of being above or below the requirements on the events and balance this.
5) Navel system review. Just going to allow Soviet amphibious landings in the Black Sea, but need to make sure we've got the right naval transport capabilities in the various waterways for both sides.
6) Production system review and balancing.
7. Complete initial slate of scenarios.

So at the moment we can play a scenario like Road to Leningrad and it plays out pretty well. However, you have to play the WitW style air system with no AI help, and the naval transport capabilities are probably too good in the Baltic. We want the air game to be something that players can easily get into and increase their involvement with it as desired. We're recently added the city forts rule that allows players to stack more units into a fortress like Odessa or Sevastopol. This took some time but it was necessary and is having an impact on play.

I don't want to give a date for the game as it depends so much on how much time our various contributors are able to devote to the game over the next year. I do wish we were further along, and expect that we'll need a solid 6 months of testing (or more) from when we reach a solid game-play beta. We won't be there until we get items 1-6 nearly done.

[sandman2575]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
We want the air game to be something that players can easily get into and increase their involvement with it as desired.

I think you made huge strides in this direction with WitW, especially with the auto-create Air Directives system. Overall the air system of WitW is excellent, though continued streamlining and improvement for WitE2 will certainly be welcome.

Thanks for the detailed update -- much appreciated, and best of luck as you and your team continue to work on this hugely anticipated sequel (which I'll still keep fingers crossed for late 2018 release...)

[jacktimes2]

Thanks for the update!
I am simply salivating at the prospect of events.
I understand the need to streamline the air-war system. I love the complexity in WitW, but I can definitely see getting overwhelmed by it in the vastness that is the Eastern Front.

[thedoctorking]

Any chance of a semi-free setup option? The stereotyped German first move is a little dull by the tenth or fifteenth time you do it.

Maybe require German units to be set up in the same Army Group regions that they were historically, and require a certain percentage of Russian units to be set up within X hexes of the frontier. Kind of like the way the Barbarossa scenario in World in Flames does it.

[Wheat]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Any chance of a semi-free setup option? The stereotyped German first move is a little dull by the tenth or fifteenth time you do it.

Maybe require German units to be set up in the same Army Group regions that they were historically, and require a certain percentage of Russian units to be set up within X hexes of the frontier. Kind of like the way the Barbarossa scenario in World in Flames does it.

This is a great idea and I hope you consider it. And for another great idea (see my cleverness), I wish there was some way to modify morale adjustment, for achieving certain objectives, rather than the blanket "its 1942, so your morale goes down".

For example, if Germany had captured Moscow and Leningrad in 41, would their morale sink the same in 1942 as it did. Right now WITE has hard coded results REGARDLESS of how good or bad you are doing relative to history. Wish that could change in WITE2.

[No idea]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Any chance of a semi-free setup option? The stereotyped German first move is a little dull by the tenth or fifteenth time you do it.

Maybe require German units to be set up in the same Army Group regions that they were historically, and require a certain percentage of Russian units to be set up within X hexes of the frontier. Kind of like the way the Barbarossa scenario in World in Flames does it.

I completely agree making the first german turn for the 243th time gets too repetitive and boring (Pelton even had a "paper" about it, with every single movement, to make the perfect 1st turn). Something should be done about this. I dont know what, but something.

[RedLancer]

Free setup: sounds easy but as I understand it is just too complicated to deliver with the current system as you are having to engineer something that precedes the current code start. It is one reason why the game has an editor. That said T1 in WitE2 has much more variation in reserve activations for defending Soviets, Baltic rail repair is random by hex and there are also combat prep points and combat delay so it's not so templated.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
Baltic rail repair is random by hex

This sounds interesting. Can you be more specific what this means (or if it's detailed somewhere earlier)? I'm expecting this could make approaching Leningrad a bit more difficult as it historically was.

[RedLancer]

There are two factors that are impacting on the 'Road to Leningrad' and hopefully makes things more historic.

Rail damage - Rail hexes in Baltics will not have the rail damaged 70% of the time when they change hands during the first 3 turns of a June 41 game. If there is land combat in the hex the rails will always be damaged. This is different to the reduced repair cost you see in WitE.

Heavy Woods - Now each hex has a road value, heavy woods with average or poor roads are a significant impediment to motorized movement and supply. This creates manoeuvre corridors.

[Dreamslayer]

It would be nice to periodically see any screenshots of the WITE 2.
For example, per a month or every two weeks.
Not necessarily some new aspects of the game it can be anything.

[uw06670]

Thank you Red Lancer for all the recent updates. Glad that you guys put so much effort into "getting it right" look forward to Beta testing (i hope).

[thedoctorking]

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Free setup: sounds easy but as I understand it is just too complicated to deliver with the current system as you are having to engineer something that precedes the current code start. It is one reason why the game has an editor. That said T1 in WitE2 has much more variation in reserve activations for defending Soviets, Baltic rail repair is random by hex and there are also combat prep points and combat delay so it's not so templated.

IMHO it would be worth the coding time to make it at least an option. It would be a much more interesting game for the first few turns. It now feels like I'm doing one of those complicated 18th-century dances with each step choreographed for the first four turns or so.

[Stelteck]

The easier solution for me would be to create a campaign where it is the soviet that play the first turn.

There can be 2 alternative of such scenario :

- Start the week before the german attack, but most frontier soviet units are locked (and the soviet player can only move some reserves).
- Start the campaign the week AFTER the german attack. (Like the WITP AE scenario that start the day after pearl harbor). In this scenario, german opening would be the historical one, and the game start by soviet turn after the initial (and historical ge

Although i do admit i have no idea if it is easy to start a campaign by soviet turn. Is it possible in some scenario in WITE classic ? I have no idea.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

The easier solution for me would be to create a campaign where it is the soviet that play the first turn.

There can be 2 alternative of such scenario :

- Start the week before the german attack, but most frontier soviet units are locked (and the soviet player can only move some reserves).
- Start the campaign the week AFTER the german attack. (Like the WITP AE scenario that start the day after pearl harbor). In this scenario, german opening would be the historical one, and the game start by soviet turn after the initial (and historical ge

Although i do admit i have no idea if it is easy to start a campaign by soviet turn. Is it possible in some scenario in WITE classic ? I have no idea.

Could I add a third - the AI does the first turn of Axis before handing on to the human versus human game. The AI does a good, and historical, first turn; thanks also to some scripting. And it does include some limited variation in the final result to keep it fresh.

[RedLancer]

I appreciate all the suggestions but at the moment the priority is to deliver a game that plays from T1 with a standard setup.

Notwithstanding all the time and effort it takes to create yet another scenario that starts earlier or later I wonder whether such an approach simply moves the finessing of T1 from one side to the other by a week or so. Even if you had a free setup how long before someone posts the ultimate soviet T1 setup?

For T1 in any scenario we always script the AI. There are a few tweaks to ensure things don't get stymied but odd rolls but essentially it's a historic first move which brings us back to finessing the first player turn.

IMO the only real option is to make the finessing of T1 more uncertain (difficult?) by adding more randomness in response to the T1 moves every time the game plays so being presented with a perfect Axis T1 is not a foregone conclusion. I hope we have done that already.

[uw06670]

IMO the only real option is to make the finessing of T1 more uncertain (difficult?) by adding more randomness in response to the T1 moves every time the game plays so being presented with a perfect Axis T1 is not a foregone conclusion. I hope we have done that already.

Yes, more interesting/active responses to German incursion by "reserve" units (or some scripting) would be a great thing to see. In real war there were some legit counter attacks on day 1 or so, albeit of limited impact in the long run.

Glad to hear you are working on this.

Also, what about the air war on day 1? In the game you can get much higher aircraft kills than what happened in the war. So perhaps it needs more 'nerfing' to get closer to real life? I know WitW air rules are coming, but what will that mean for day 1?

[Wheat]

No one official or unofficial commented on my suggestion. [&:] Either everyone thinks it was totally dumb, or (my preference), everyone agrees it is totally awesome.

"I wish there was some way to modify morale adjustment, for achieving certain objectives, rather than the blanket "its 1942, so your morale goes down".

For example, if Germany had captured Moscow and Leningrad in 41, would their morale sink the same in 1942 as it did? Right now WITE has hard coded results REGARDLESS of how good or bad you are doing relative to history. Wish that could change in WITE2."

[thedoctorking]

I like the idea of a game that starts on June 30th.

As far as Wheat's suggestion is concerned, I think this is a good idea. Maybe achieving some territorial or loss inflicted objectives would increase national morale base. Don't want to have the reverse or you would end up with a slippery slope where once you started losing you would just lose worse and worse.

Maybe a national mobilization increase too where if you were doing much worse than historical your people would rally 'round the flag and fight harder. I see this a lot in WW1 games.

[uw06670]

"I wish there was some way to modify morale adjustment, for achieving certain objectives, rather than the blanket "its 1942, so your morale goes down".

+1