Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper)

[gingerbread]

Are you keeping up your efforts to interfere with the air supply missions? There is a comment that saper hit your air fields but that should cost him a lot to keep up if you put some AA in the Air HQ. The Soviets should have plenty of FB:s and some P-40's as well at this time...

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Are you keeping up your efforts to interfere with the air supply missions? There is a comment that saper hit your air fields but that should cost him a lot to keep up if you put some AA in the Air HQ. The Soviets should have plenty of FB:s and some P-40's as well at this time...

I have managed to intercept the odd air supply mission here and there, but probably 90% or more of the time not a single fighter takes to the sky. And when I do intercept the results have usually not been very satisfactory as the air supply flights I do intercept are generally escorted by German fighters.

Below is a fairly typical example of the air action on the South Front on Turn 14. My relevant Air Doctrine settings are % Required to Fly: 10%, Fighter Intercept: 300. My Southern Front Air Command Leader has a rating of 6 for Air. On T7 I built/assigned 1 PVO AA Rgt. And 2 AA Battalions to Southern Air Command. However they have taken forever to fill up (even though these are the only ones I have built in the entire game). By T14 their respective TOEs are only 45%, 40% and 65%.

As you can see Saper bombed one of my airfields a total of 3 times with a total of 329 fighter sorties and 78 bomber sorties. He lost 10 fighters and 2 bombers while I lost 31 fighters. Meanwhile he didn’t even touch 2 other airfields which combined had 314 fighters waiting to intercept his air supply missions taking place only 40 to 50 miles away. Just to be sure some of my fighters were set to night missions in case Saper decide to supply by night. And theses are some of my best squadrons too; all with pretty good morale and experience for Russians at this stage of the War.

Saper flew a total of 8 supply missions into the two hexes circled in blue. So how many of these did my glorious fighter squadrons intercept? The answer: not a single one. And it wasn’t like they were busy doing other things. Saper only made one ground attack in this area this turn for which 64 of my fighters did show up. But the vast majority of my fighters just sat on the tarmac for the whole week. And yes, they had lots of fuel and supply.

In any event, I was waiting until the AA units I assigned to Southern Front Air Command built up to full strength before I built/assigned any to any other commands. Then when I realized they never were going to build up and were doing very little good I decide to spend my APs elsewhere; if you think thus was a mistake let me know and I’ll build some more. Otherwise I really don’t know what I can do?

[Harrybanana]

I have just updated to 1.06.22 which I see now requires aircraft flying air transport missions (including air supply) to be within 5 MPs of a rail head. I believe this makes sense; but I hope it does not nerf Saper's tactic too much. This is the most challenging tense game I have played and therefore, despite my poor situation, the most enjoyable.

For myself I would rather they nerfed strategic bombing which, imho, is way too effective. Though Helpless says it is not that effective and I am discovering otherwise.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

On T7 I built/assigned 1 PVO AA Rgt. And 2 AA Battalions to Southern Air Command. However they have taken forever to fill up (even though these are the only ones I have built in the entire game). By T14 their respective TOEs are only 45%, 40% and 65%.

I had the same problem in my game. With the latest patch they should fill up quickly.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: morvael

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

On T7 I built/assigned 1 PVO AA Rgt. And 2 AA Battalions to Southern Air Command. However they have taken forever to fill up (even though these are the only ones I have built in the entire game). By T14 their respective TOEs are only 45%, 40% and 65%.

I had the same problem in my game. With the latest patch they should fill up quickly.

I hope you are right, but I didn't read anything in the patch notes about this being "fixed".

[gingerbread]

Possibly this one:

12. Fixed a bug that prevented support units from getting ground element upgrades.

So the AA should be able to fill up with 85mm instead of waiting forever for 76mm guns.


As to the (non-) intercepting fighters, DL (detection level) could be a factor so you might consider running some recon in the vicinity of the air bases and also in the area around the converted rail to find air bases w/i 5 MP of rail. There is a clear YMMW aspect to this though and very unlikely a panacea.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Possibly this one:

12. Fixed a bug that prevented support units from getting ground element upgrades.

So the AA should be able to fill up with 85mm instead of waiting forever for 76mm guns.


As to the (non-) intercepting fighters, DL (detection level) could be a factor so you might consider running some recon in the vicinity of the air bases and also in the area around the converted rail to find air bases w/i 5 MP of rail. There is a clear YMMW aspect to this though and very unlikely a panacea.

Thanks gingerbread, I hope you are right too. Though I still don't understand why newly created PVO Air regiments would even start with 76mm AA guns as the default when they were obsolete before the War even started. But I suppose it makes sense somehow.

I'll try your idea of flying air recon to detect his airfields. Though with respect it seems rather odd to me that this would have an effect; not saying it won't just wondering how realistic it is as being an effective way of increasing fighter interceptions. I would have thought flying CAP over the suspected drop zones would have more of an effect than finding out where the bombers and transports are coming from. But can't say I know a lot about this intelligence aspect of the War.

[Harrybanana]

T17 Moscow Area after my Moves

Saper plowed forward a couple more hexes and as expected re-isolated those 8 units. At least no more were bagged. He mangaged to get a single motorized adjacent to NW and W Moscow; but I retreated it on my turn so I could evac my Vehicle Factories. As I said before a lot will now depend on the Weather over the next 7 turns. Saper has said that he will not play anymore games with random weather as the two turns of mud on the road to Moscow were too much for him. He may be right, without those two turns of mud I would probably have already lost Moscow and still might.

[Harrybanana]

T17 Tula Area

Very little action here this turn.

[Harrybanana]

T17 Voronezh Area

Saper expanded his bridgehead a bit, but I threw him back. I don't see any fueled up mobile forces in this area; I hope Saper doesn't have any surprises for me if the weather is snow. My South flank in particular is vunerable.

[Harrybanana]

T17 Stalingrad

Saper continues to slowly advance on this front. Perhaps some mud will dissuade him

[Harrybanana]

T17 Rostov

Saper surprised me by advancing across the river near it's mouth. I took a gamble, attacked him and threw him back. If I wasn't expecting mud here next turn I probably would not have taken the chance of a "Held" result. Even as it is a snow turn or, god forbid, clear weather may cost me. I have lost track of 3 panzer divisions and 1 motorized division that Saper had in this area. Has he moved them elsewhere to surprise me or are they still lurking around in the vicinity? (of course for those of you reading Saper's AAR I don't actually want you to tell me).

[Harrybanana]

Here is the combat report for that battle.

[Harrybanana]

T17 OOB, Losses and Production

My Armaments have nosedived the last couple turns.

Looks like Saper and I have proven Pelton's statement that the new norm is 2.5 million Russian losses by the end of summer. Mind you another 80,000+ are isolated and will soon be taking the train west to POW camps. Of course my loss of industry and manpower centres is a bit more than Pelton's Norm as well.

[Harrybanana]

T18

There was snow in the North Soviet Zone and mud elsewhere. So Saper hammered me back a bit more in front of Moscow and pretty much held everywhere else. Not worth posting any sceen shots other than the one below showing some succecsful partisan attacks. It's not too often that partisans attack any rail that matters so it is a bit of a bonus when they do.

Also what do you suppose the purpose was of the big airsupply drop on the hex circled in blue. Could this be where Saper's missing mobile units have gone? If so, why? My guess is he plans to rail them to the Moscow area for a final push before blizzard; but who really knows.

[Harrybanana]

T 19

This turn snow in the Central Soviet Zone and mud elsewhere. So not much action at all this turn. Except that Saper took the opportunity of providing airsupply to several units while I railed out the HI from Moscow. So the only thing of importance the loss of Moscow will cause me now is manpower.

Oh yeah, since the bug affecting the upgrading of support units has been fixed several of my PVO AA regiments have upgraded to the 85mm AA gun. This should help me protect my industry.

You can see from the screenshot below that once again Saper is providing sir supply to several units in the Stalino area. What is he up to? Is this just to help his fort building in the area?

[Harrybanana]

T20 The weather this turn was identical to T19, Snow in Central Soviet and mud in North and South Soviet. So again very few attacks or movement. Saper's supply situation is generally improving in that his rail lines continue to move East and he is making some massive air supply drops (which by the way I still very seldom intercept).

Meanwhile he moved some mobile units into positions Northeast of Rostov as shown below. Is he planning on using these units to capture Stalingrad? That seems unlikely. More probable is that he plans on flanking my forces south of Rostov so he can take the 3 cities he needs to activate Army Groups A and B. Several turns ago I was not optimistic about holding these cities. But with each passing turn my odds are improving. There is only a 2/11 chance of clear/snow in the South and he only has 4 turns left. But every time I have been optimistic before in this game Saper has pulled some trick out of the bag. Certainly he has lots of gassed up units in the South if he can get a break in the weather.

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

There is only a 2/11 chance of clear/snow in the South and he only has 4 turns left.

It changes to 9/11 in turns 22, 23 & 24. Pushing back the Soviet rail head is an effective defence and there is the AGS split as well. So that carefully hoarded batch of Infantry Divisions should go here. [;)]

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

There is only a 2/11 chance of clear/snow in the South and he only has 4 turns left.

It changes to 9/11 in turns 22, 23 & 24. Pushing back the Soviet rail head is an effective defence and there is the AGS split as well. So that carefully hoarded batch of Infantry Divisions should go here. [;)]

Good Lord! Thank you gingerbread. This is my first game playing random weather and I somehow managed to overlook the November weather table completely. That could have been very costly. Unfortunately I don't have a carefully hoarded batch of infantry divisions. At best I have some newly arrived divisions of dubious quality and most of therm are a 2 turn train ride away (primarily because he is about to cut the main line direct from Stalingrad) and I only have one turn left. I'll have to see what I can scrape together. But since he will have some 9+ mobile units with good fuel supplies I will have to carefully consider my options here.

[Harrybanana]

T21

Mud everywhere so once again nothing to report. Just as well as I forgot to take screen shots at the end of my turn. Nothing to show you except a lot of fueled up panzer and motorized divisions on all fronts. You'll just have to take my word for it. I am fairly well fortifed with thick lines in most positions, but not sure if this will protect me from all those 45+ MP units. I am particularly vunerable I think in the South around Rostov. I considered retreating several hexes further South but decided to take a shot at defending forward for a change. I'll let you know how that worked out for me soon.