Olorin [J] vs JocMeister [A]

[Lowpe]

The command HQ doesn't need to be at Pearl Harbor, just close by.

Kind of a bold move, prepping a command HQ for Pearl. I wonder if Joc got any sigint on that?

Even being a month behind schedule, you have struck so fast on Pearl, hard to see what the Allies could do to stop you.

Congrats on the Warspite, 4 hits!

[Olorin]

Thanks. [:)]

I could land the HQs at Molokai which is just one hex from PH.

[Olorin]

Feb 5, '42

First attack against Pearl goes relatively well. The HQs landed at Molokai and will now reinforce PH itself along with another supply convoy.

In China, there can be no breakthrough since the chinese have closed all gaps, but they are now committed in the forests, while I can redeploy easily. Also, received 6 brigades as reinforcements. When they arrive at the front and disablements are repaired the offensive will be resumed.

Ground combat at Pearl Harbor (180,107)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 78094 troops, 689 guns, 480 vehicles, Assault Value = 2461
Defending force 55872 troops, 801 guns, 538 vehicles, Assault Value = 695
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Japanese adjusted assault: 1499
Allied adjusted defense: 2601
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4987 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 389 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 52 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 58 disabled
Vehicles lost 55 (2 destroyed, 53 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2820 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 151 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 107 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 72 disabled
Guns lost 80 (5 destroyed, 75 disabled)
Vehicles lost 35 (4 destroyed, 31 disabled)

Assaulting units:
16th Division
4th Division
21st Ind Engineer Regiment
3rd Ind Engineer Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
33rd Division
5th Tank Regiment
65th Brigade
48th Division
10th Tank Regiment
21st Division
Kure 2nd SNLF
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Ship Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
12th JNAF AF Unit

Defending units:
25th Infantry Division
Oahu Harbor Defense
19th Infantry Regiment
21st Infantry Regiment
34th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
4th Marine Defense Battalion
VII US Bomber Cmnd
Pacific Fleet
21st Base Group
804th Aviation Engineer Battalion
19th Base Group
251st Coast AA Regiment
3rd Marine Defense Battalion
Seventh USAAF
Hawaiian Dept
18th Base Group
11th Base Group
14th Naval District
97th Coast AA Regiment
98th Coast AA Regiment
64th Coast AA Regiment
21st MAG
15th Base Group
8th Port Maint Engineer Battalion
VII US Fighter Cmnd

[setloz]

Any plans to bombard PH with your battleships? They would add disruption to the defenders and reduce their adjusted AV.

[Olorin]

Yes, there are three battleships at Lahaina bombarding PH every other day. It seems the minefield has been cleared and CD guns are disrupted.

[Crackaces]

There are few action reports that record a history of taking Pearl Harbor .. I am following this one as to see the long term result.
I am wondering if the expenditure of supplies and fuel now will not home to roost later in the game ...

[Lowpe]

Did you reduce the forts multiple levels?[X(]

[Olorin]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

There are few action reports that record a history of taking Pearl Harbor .. I am following this one as to see the long term result.
I am wondering if the expenditure of supplies and fuel now will not home to roost later in the game ...

I don't think think there is any significant extra supply cost, because these units would be fighting somewhere else expending roughly the same amount of supplies. Fuel is the real cost. I think I 've used about 250-300k in Hawaii since Dec 7, but this is a very rough calculation.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Did you reduce the forts multiple levels?[X(]

No this is the first attack and forts were reduce only by 1. They were simply not allowed to grow. If there is airfield or port damage, engineers cannot work on forts.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Olorin

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

There are few action reports that record a history of taking Pearl Harbor .. I am following this one as to see the long term result.
I am wondering if the expenditure of supplies and fuel now will not home to roost later in the game ...

I don't think think there is any significant extra supply cost, because these units would be fighting somewhere else expending roughly the same amount of supplies. Fuel is the real cost. I think I 've used about 250-300k in Hawaii since Dec 7, but this is a very rough calculation.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Did you reduce the forts multiple levels?[X(]

No this is the first attack and forts were reduce only by 1. They were simply not allowed to grow. If there is airfield or port damage, engineers cannot work on forts.

The context of my extra supply is the combat supplies expended for taking down a reinforced position (I am making a bold assumption that bloody combat uses more supply), and the supplies for rebuilding the disabled/destroyed squads that in turn has to be brought a long ways ..
although PH has LI and resources nearby depending on the damage when this is all over ...

It is a nice position that has no close jump off points (like the Gilberts are for the Marshall's) much like the Marianna's so only a well armed CV/Amphib force is going to take this back ...
But it is a heck of a long ways to resupply ....and a lot of fuel burned both in the operations and moving transport ships ..

[setloz]

IIRC the fuel supplies at PH amount to some 500.000 units. And depending on how fast he takes it, he may take 20-30k supplies as well as the industry intact.
This alone should pay for at least one year of maintenance for PH. And the VPs from sunk ships and destroyed squads are just a bonus.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: setloz

IIRC the fuel supplies at PH amount to some 500.000 units. And depending on how fast he takes it, he may take 20-30k supplies as well as the industry intact.
This alone should pay for at least one year of maintenance for PH. And the VPs from sunk ships and destroyed squads are just a bonus.

There is a real question, given the engineers present, what will be left once this is all over .. it is quite possible that a lot less fuel will be here
as well as the LI being severely damaged .. (a) die roll(s) will happen when the capture takes place and it is not certain what will remain ...

My comments allude to the concept that the IJ have to invest in a 401K account and adventures like this come at the expense of the later war ..
but this very well could work out to extend the war into 1946 ..other AAR's have shown this strategy to result in an earlier Allied victory ..

[Olorin]

Could you ls direct me to said AARs? I haven't found any and suddenly there are two ongoing games where Japan went for PH.
Die rolls will be crucial when it comes to stockpiles. I hope the captured fuel stockpiles make up for some of the cost of this operation and the next one.

P.S. In my only pbem that went deep into 1944, fuel wasn't an issue at all, it was supplies that were the problem.

[Crackaces]

In general .. I might suggest Andy Mac vs. PzB [tm.asp?m=2324032&mpage=109&key= ]as an example of an advanced scenario [scenario #2 no additional supply production from refineries] as the quintessential example of the IJ "winning" there way into a loss.
Although the game did not end by VP but one side calling it quits. And yes it was supply that was the major harbinger of this decision rather than fuel.

My thought is that the master IJ production guys are so keen on fuel to optimize every drop in relation to fuel/oil/resources/supplies that my intuition says a long run into PH is not aligned with this efficiency concept ..

EDIT: Ocean of Allied Blood (Reluctant Admiral scenario) [ tm.asp?m=2495125&mpage=1&key= ]

Again FatR has a real shortages I cannot determine what or how much but the above AAR shows a position where I believe the Allies are ready to quit under yubari to the Allies are knocking on the IJ's door under BigRed...
I don't see a AAR for FatR

[SqzMyLemon]

Olorin,

Your offensive vector in China surprises me somewhat. How strong is your northern thrust towards Lanchow? Are you concerned with not targeting China's supply generating bases sooner? I worry that you may extend the defensive capabilities of the Chinese by months not going after supply generation sooner. Then again, it's only February and no matter what, China will eventually run out of supply as it always does providing you force the issue. At some point, it would be great if you could explain your reasoning for attacking China as you have? If I've missed a previous explanation, just point me in the right direction and I'll re-read your relevant posts.

[Olorin]

There are two offensives currently going on in China and both have Lanchow as their target, which if taken, deprives the central plains HI from the fuel it needs to produce supplies. The northern offensive is about 1000 AV strong with 500 more on the way. It's currently stalled until Nigsia (the dot base east of Lanchow) has an airfield.

The Sian-Ankang offensive is temporarily put on hold until my forces recover a bit. The goal was to draw the Chinese army into the forests and away from the roads, where they can't redeploy nor resupply quickly. This has been largely achieved.

In two months there will be a third (and main) offensive targeting the capital using Southern Army forces. It'll be launched when the DEI is completely captured and some crucial tank units arrive and will take advantage of the heavy Chinese commitment in the Sian-Ankang area.

A fourth diversionary operation will be launched shortly in Yunan. 2-3 divisions invading from Burma & Indochina are enough. The goal is to cut off Kumming and draw more Chinese units away from the center.

All this could be better explained by a screenshot, but no time for one today.

[SqzMyLemon]

No need for a screenshot, your explanation was clear. I get your overall intention of drawing Jocke away from your main goals and make it difficult to transition against your planned moves.

Too bad you don't have a major airbases available to you in the north, the inability to bomb in that terrain will slow your efforts. Any terrain 2x or lower is death to Chinese forces from air attack.

Enjoying the ride so far and appreciate the time and effort you put into your AAR.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Enjoying the ride so far and appreciate the time and effort you put into your AAR.

+1.

[John 3rd]

Well done Sir. You will have PH nearly two months ahead of me. Quite impressive work!

I went well into 1945 with a game vs. Canoerebel and fuel was never an issue. You KNOW how aggressive I am...

Keep it up.

[Crackaces]

The DEI offers plenty of fuel for the IJ .. the problem is having enough fuel so far from sources to conduct sufficient defensive operations ..

This may turn out differently ..

[Olorin]

Feb 10, 1942

Eastern Operation:
- Second PH attack goes well and drops the forts to 1. My units are in relatively good condition, only 1-2 days of rest are needed. If it doesn't fall in the next two attacks it'll be a surprise.
- BB Hyuga is hit by a sub once, while bombarding PH. Flt damage is 20. That's the third BB that needs to go to the yards.

Ground combat at Pearl Harbor (180,107)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 76345 troops, 681 guns, 493 vehicles, Assault Value = 2344
Defending force 53227 troops, 780 guns, 525 vehicles, Assault Value = 540
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1
Japanese adjusted assault: 2533
Allied adjusted defense: 1079
Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1247 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 110 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 31 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 82 (23 destroyed, 59 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2498 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 127 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 70 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 30 disabled
Guns lost 71 (5 destroyed, 66 disabled)
Vehicles lost 62 (7 destroyed, 55 disabled)

Assaulting units:
7th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
65th Brigade
10th Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
16th Division
33rd Division
21st Ind Engineer Regiment
21st Division
3rd Ind Engineer Regiment
4th Division
48th Division
Kure 2nd SNLF
14th Army
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
4th Fleet
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
1st Ship Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
12th JNAF AF Unit

Defending units:
Oahu Harbor Defense
19th Infantry Regiment
21st Infantry Regiment
25th Infantry Division
34th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
VII US Bomber Cmnd
18th Base Group
3rd Marine Defense Battalion
98th Coast AA Regiment
11th Base Group
251st Coast AA Regiment
Seventh USAAF
Hawaiian Dept
804th Aviation Engineer Battalion
8th Port Maint Engineer Battalion
14th Naval District
4th Marine Defense Battalion
64th Coast AA Regiment
19th Base Group
15th Base Group
97th Coast AA Regiment
21st MAG
Pacific Fleet
21st Base Group
VII US Fighter Cmnd

DEI:
- Two sneakky allied CAs raid Sabang and catch a transport TF that was sent there to transport 18 Div. About 10 Yusen N-class ships are sunk! Good play by Jocke. Naval search is clearly lacking in ther Andaman Sea.
- Java was reinforced by another two divisions. Batavia was invested. The first attack is quite succesfull. Batavia should fall soon.
- During the unloading of reinforcments, the Dutch airforce attacked the ships and was slaughtered.
- Namlea captured. Ambon invaded by a fast Transport TF. CD guns damage 7 APDs. Reinforcements are needed.

Ground combat at Batavia (49,98)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 49540 troops, 486 guns, 265 vehicles, Assault Value = 1456
Defending force 22774 troops, 184 guns, 78 vehicles, Assault Value = 461
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Japanese adjusted assault: 875
Allied adjusted defense: 349
Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
873 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 56 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2454 casualties reported
Squads: 30 destroyed, 157 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 78 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 45 (3 destroyed, 42 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (1 destroyed, 11 disabled)

Assaulting units:
16th Infantry Regiment
5th Division
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
4th Ind Engineer Regiment
148th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind Engineer Regiment
56th Engineer Regiment
113th Infantry Regiment
2nd Engineer Regiment
38th Division
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
24th Infantry Regiment
16th Army
56th Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Field Artillery Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
16th AA Regiment

Defending units:
2nd KNIL Regiment
1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion
4th KNIL Landstorm Battalion
1st Regt Cavalerie
1st KNIL Regiment
6th KNIL Regiment
Batavia Defenses
ML-KNIL
1st KNIL AA Battalion
Batavia KM Base Force
ABDA
KNI Leger
KNI Zeemacht
6th Avn Sup Afd