MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

On the South Front:
-----
Here I've swapped positions of the 4-3 INF and the 6-3 INF (dark blue arrows). I'm pretty sure that the 4-3 can't be overrun. Even if it can (I could be wrong), the only 2 units able to do so can't move up to the front, and there aren't enough other units with the range to make terrific attacks on the river lines or the 2 cities here.

The other unit with a light blue circle, the Sevastapol MIL, I moved into the port to prevent a paradrop into Crimea.

As you can see, I've pulled most of my ARM and MECH units down from the North Front to try to make some heavier stacks. This is a long line to cover, and the USSR just hasn't got a whole lot of units to work with. If the sacrifices up north can buy a little extra time there, that's good, but this is the line that needs to hold as long as possible. I think I've got enough flexibility to adjust things next impulse. The biggest problem is that I can't keep a strong line and still have a secondary line behind it.

No sacrifices. The 4-3 needs to be behind the river.

A secondary line is a luxury the USSR can not afford. Only the HQ gets to sit comfortably out of harm's way. And that respite might only be for 1 impulse. The front line should be as strong as possible. There should never be two divisions in the same hex. Spread them out like icing on a cake: no clumps. There is a hole NE of Dnepropetrovsk that should be occupied by some random corps.

I am not going to try to tweak every hex here. But if there is a cheaper unit than the Mot to sit and die in Kiev that would be nice. Maybe the 4-1 Gar in the north should rail to Kiev instead of the Moscow Militia - since there is only 1 rail move available. Oh, but all the rail moves have been made.[:(] The lesson here is to never make your rail moves until you have thought through all your land moves. Thinking back to that 4-1, it can either die in Vitebsk or move 1 hex NE and pray.

I had to make the 4-3 sacrifice, because this was the best I could do with the movement points of the units available. There was no spare Corps for that hole in the line, and there was no better unit to take the place of the MOT. I railed the Moscow MIL there (as suggested by . . . I forget) because it can die and be rebuilt to serve on the Moscow Line next turn. Otherwise, he's doing nothing of value with his 2 movement points.

About 1/3 of these units came from the Gomel, Bryansk and Kursk region. Even the fast units could only get so far down south. If I want to "tidy up" this line before the Germans get there, the sacrifice had to be made. I figured out which hexes could be attacked without him being there, and it didn't look good. With him there, and with the bombers too far off to hurt the line, I still have time to fix things.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Okay, the next 6 posts show what I've set up for the Soviets. It's the best I can do, I think.
-----
Starting off with the Far North, Leningrad should be able to hold against the enemy, so I sent the Leningrad MIL to keep tabs on Novgorod. Now that snow is extremely unlikely, I've put the black print 5-3 INF into position between the lakes, where it should stay until supply runs out -- and maybe even after that. The white print 5-3 INF (the one that might have been better off in Baku) is moving south to help with the failing Northern Front. Although you can't see it in this image, he's within range of adding protection between the swamps NE of Vitebsk, or he could move closer to Smolensk as part of a continued retreat.

I like this except for weakening Leningrad.

The 3 units in Leningrad should be immobile; consider them all to have a movement factor of 0. Leningrad is as important as Gibraltar. Occupying Novgorod is pointless at this time. If you move the 6-3 back to Leningrad in the next impulse, it will become disorganized: giving the Germans a successful ground strike against a unit in Leningrad for free.

At the first sign of a possible Finnish attack on the 5-3 in the north, that unit should retreat towards Moscow. He IS the northern frontline.[:D]]

You're the one who told me that Leningrad could survive on 2 units. [&:]

That was because there was a reinforcement coming in as the 3rd unit. And because the Germans couldn't possibly get to the hex to help the Finns attack. Once the Germans get within 2 impulses of being adjacent to Leningrad, extreme paranoia is justified. Taking Leningrad is more import to the Germans than almost any other hex in Russia. When defended with strong units it is extremely difficult to take. That can't be said for any other hex in the Soviet Union.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: lordzyplon

No problem, happens to me all the time F2F. See my edit, as well.

I'll try it with the 1D10 CRT, using Blitz Bonus (I am) . . .

Including the use of those great long-ranged LND (desperate times, and all), I don't see the Finns getting better than 1:2 odds.

-1 for multi-stack factories
-1 for Engineer in the Hex

Even if you get the +1 Column shift from HQ Support, there is no way to kill off 2 units at 1:1 odds with a -2 to the die roll.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

On the South Front:
-----
Here I've swapped positions of the 4-3 INF and the 6-3 INF (dark blue arrows). I'm pretty sure that the 4-3 can't be overrun. Even if it can (I could be wrong), the only 2 units able to do so can't move up to the front, and there aren't enough other units with the range to make terrific attacks on the river lines or the 2 cities here.

The other unit with a light blue circle, the Sevastapol MIL, I moved into the port to prevent a paradrop into Crimea.

As you can see, I've pulled most of my ARM and MECH units down from the North Front to try to make some heavier stacks. This is a long line to cover, and the USSR just hasn't got a whole lot of units to work with. If the sacrifices up north can buy a little extra time there, that's good, but this is the line that needs to hold as long as possible. I think I've got enough flexibility to adjust things next impulse. The biggest problem is that I can't keep a strong line and still have a secondary line behind it.

No sacrifices. The 4-3 needs to be behind the river.

A secondary line is a luxury the USSR can not afford. Only the HQ gets to sit comfortably out of harm's way. And that respite might only be for 1 impulse. The front line should be as strong as possible. There should never be two divisions in the same hex. Spread them out like icing on a cake: no clumps. There is a hole NE of Dnepropetrovsk that should be occupied by some random corps.

I am not going to try to tweak every hex here. But if there is a cheaper unit than the Mot to sit and die in Kiev that would be nice. Maybe the 4-1 Gar in the north should rail to Kiev instead of the Moscow Militia - since there is only 1 rail move available. Oh, but all the rail moves have been made.[:(] The lesson here is to never make your rail moves until you have thought through all your land moves. Thinking back to that 4-1, it can either die in Vitebsk or move 1 hex NE and pray.

I had to make the 4-3 sacrifice, because this was the best I could do with the movement points of the units available. There was no spare Corps for that hole in the line, and there was no better unit to take the place of the MOT. I railed the Moscow MIL there (as suggested by . . . I forget) because it can die and be rebuilt to serve on the Moscow Line next turn. Otherwise, he's doing nothing of value with his 2 movement points.

About 1/3 of these units came from the Gomel, Bryansk and Kursk region. Even the fast units could only get so far down south. If I want to "tidy up" this line before the Germans get there, the sacrifice had to be made. I figured out which hexes could be attacked without him being there, and it didn't look good. With him there, and with the bombers too far off to hurt the line, I still have time to fix things.

The 4-3 could have filled the hole.

The Bf110E can do the ground strike on the 4-3 (40% success). The PARA can put him out of supply if the ground strike succeeds. Rundstedt can overrun the 4-3.

Here is a rule of thumb: a single unit alone in a clear hex will almost always be overrun by armor. You can do calculations out your ears and you will find that your d###ed opponent will find a way to overrun him. I am a very good chess player and I am very good at math. But my opponent of many years (who is a grand master at chess) proved to me on numerous occasions that I could never be sure that my calculations were correct. Hence my rule of thumb.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets



No sacrifices. The 4-3 needs to be behind the river.

A secondary line is a luxury the USSR can not afford. Only the HQ gets to sit comfortably out of harm's way. And that respite might only be for 1 impulse. The front line should be as strong as possible. There should never be two divisions in the same hex. Spread them out like icing on a cake: no clumps. There is a hole NE of Dnepropetrovsk that should be occupied by some random corps.

I am not going to try to tweak every hex here. But if there is a cheaper unit than the Mot to sit and die in Kiev that would be nice. Maybe the 4-1 Gar in the north should rail to Kiev instead of the Moscow Militia - since there is only 1 rail move available. Oh, but all the rail moves have been made.[:(] The lesson here is to never make your rail moves until you have thought through all your land moves. Thinking back to that 4-1, it can either die in Vitebsk or move 1 hex NE and pray.

I had to make the 4-3 sacrifice, because this was the best I could do with the movement points of the units available. There was no spare Corps for that hole in the line, and there was no better unit to take the place of the MOT. I railed the Moscow MIL there (as suggested by . . . I forget) because it can die and be rebuilt to serve on the Moscow Line next turn. Otherwise, he's doing nothing of value with his 2 movement points.

About 1/3 of these units came from the Gomel, Bryansk and Kursk region. Even the fast units could only get so far down south. If I want to "tidy up" this line before the Germans get there, the sacrifice had to be made. I figured out which hexes could be attacked without him being there, and it didn't look good. With him there, and with the bombers too far off to hurt the line, I still have time to fix things.

The 4-3 could have filled the hole.

The Bf110E can do the ground strike on the 4-3 (40% success). The PARA can put him out of supply if the ground strike succeeds. Rundstedt can overrun the 4-3.

Here is a rule of thumb: a single unit alone in a clear hex will almost always be overrun by armor. You can do calculations out your ears and you will find that your d###ed opponent will find a way to overrun him. I am a very good chess player and I am very good at math. But my opponent of many years (who is a grand master at chess) proved to me on numerous occasions that I could never be sure that my calculations were correct. Hence my rule of thumb.

Sorry, Steve, but you're wrong here. The PARA cannot put him out of supply in order to let an overrun happen. That's because an overrun happens during Land Movement, which comes before a paradrop -- which is an attack. Yes, it can put the unit OOS, but not in a way that lets the Germans reach the Dnieper.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

Doesn't an escort mission still disorganize the unit?

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


The 4-3 could have filled the hole.

The Bf110E can do the ground strike on the 4-3 (40% success). The PARA can put him out of supply if the ground strike succeeds. Rundstedt can overrun the 4-3.

Here is a rule of thumb: a single unit alone in a clear hex will almost always be overrun by armor. You can do calculations out your ears and you will find that your d###ed opponent will find a way to overrun him. I am a very good chess player and I am very good at math. But my opponent of many years (who is a grand master at chess) proved to me on numerous occasions that I could never be sure that my calculations were correct. Hence my rule of thumb.

Granted the para could drop to put the unit out of supply, but it would have to clear through the intercept from the I-16?

Maybe I wasn't too far fetched on this then except it would not be an attack on D-Town (stupid on my part to think it was in the trees after looking at the map again), but displacing the fighter and denying the forest to the Russians along with being able to press up against the river line in force would be beneficial I would think.

*Edit* Guess I was after seeing Aaron's post. Ah well, the best laid plans, yada, yada. [;)]

[composer99]

Germany has no o-chit this turn & I'm not certain that Red Prince has built one (or is saving up for one).

At any rate, IMO the USSR is looking reasonably strong in the north: localized air superiority until the Germans bring their FTR up to the Vitebsk area & the river line they are already set up behind. In addition, once the time comes to leave the river line they have forests, cities and whatnot to fall back on all the way back to Gorki.

Again, in my opinion, as long as the USSR can fall back in good order and in strength, avoid getting planes overrun, and can throw up roadblocks (whether speedbumps or strongpoints) to slow the Germans down, they can handle some losses. Their goal is to trade space & units for time. The Americans are in, effectively a year earlier than usual, so the Germans have only one summer to get things done.

[lordzyplon]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

Doesn't an escort mission still disorganize the unit?

Yep. Seeing as it's the beginning of the turn, Soviet air power hasn't been neutralized, and the Germans aren't running back to the Vistula, I don't think it's critical to save the mission.

[composer99]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


I like this except for weakening Leningrad.

The 3 units in Leningrad should be immobile; consider them all to have a movement factor of 0. Leningrad is as important as Gibraltar. Occupying Novgorod is pointless at this time. If you move the 6-3 back to Leningrad in the next impulse, it will become disorganized: giving the Germans a successful ground strike against a unit in Leningrad for free.

At the first sign of a possible Finnish attack on the 5-3 in the north, that unit should retreat towards Moscow. He IS the northern frontline.[:D]]

You're the one who told me that Leningrad could survive on 2 units. [&:]

That was because there was a reinforcement coming in as the 3rd unit. And because the Germans couldn't possibly get to the hex to help the Finns attack. Once the Germans get within 2 impulses of being adjacent to Leningrad, extreme paranoia is justified. Taking Leningrad is more import to the Germans than almost any other hex in Russia. [Emphasis mine] When defended with strong units it is extremely difficult to take. That can't be said for any other hex in the Soviet Union.

I would say the most important Soviet hex is Baku. If the Germans get there they have secured almost the entire USSR printed oil points, brought in Turkey, established an overland rail line between Europe & the Middle East that does not pass through straits, and crippled USSR production.

Leningrad is obviously nice (red factory + objective hex) but it can be taken with an o-chit using Finns, engineers and MTN units in the winter. No rush to crush it, especially not in the summer with the defenders doubled.

[Red Prince]

Nope. No O-chit in the works, and I don't have one planned. Knowing the USA was going to enter early (by Gear Up and War Appropriations), having land units on the map seemed more important to me. Regardless of how the summer goes, I don't think I'd consider building one before S/O '41. I've found them useful in the winter, but if Germany can't make huge progress by then, its in trouble.

Then again, an O-chit used in Persia could help a lot if there is too much defense to overcome.
-----
Anyway, here's how things are going so far this impulse:

Japan did not DOW the USA. I'll stick by my earlier reasons, for better or worse. Instead, they set up for invasions of India and the Philippenes, among other targets, and tried to set a reasonable defensive perimiter with the navy. They are going to need several Land Actions this turn, so I'm hoping to be able to fend off whatever fleet the USA can bring to bear. The CW is still not a threat at this moment. Oh, yeah, and they sent a unit to Kwajalein, so the USA can't take that Victory City for free anymore. Yet again, the Japanese attempted to disrupt the CW convoy pipeline in the South Pacific (New Zealand Coast), but failed to find.

Italy sent its "monster fleet" back out into Cape St. Vincent, joining the NAV force left there after last turn, and moved the 2 HQs almost into position for the Persian campaign to begin. Next impulse, it will be set up, so the Soviets are going to have to settle on a defense. I'm still working on the German land moves for the impulse.

Germany tried to Ground Strike both Odessa and Riga this impulse. The failed at Riga, but nailed the INF in Odessa. Italy attempted to lob some artillery fire over into Dover, but missed the London MIL there. Japan tried to get those annoying Chinese Nationalists to flip in Kunming . . . and they got 2 out of 3! (Meatloaf, anyone?)

[composer99]

Japan has the cheap losses in place. Let the final battle of China begin!

(But really - Meatloaf? I mean, really? [;)])

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince



I had to make the 4-3 sacrifice, because this was the best I could do with the movement points of the units available. There was no spare Corps for that hole in the line, and there was no better unit to take the place of the MOT. I railed the Moscow MIL there (as suggested by . . . I forget) because it can die and be rebuilt to serve on the Moscow Line next turn. Otherwise, he's doing nothing of value with his 2 movement points.

About 1/3 of these units came from the Gomel, Bryansk and Kursk region. Even the fast units could only get so far down south. If I want to "tidy up" this line before the Germans get there, the sacrifice had to be made. I figured out which hexes could be attacked without him being there, and it didn't look good. With him there, and with the bombers too far off to hurt the line, I still have time to fix things.

The 4-3 could have filled the hole.

The Bf110E can do the ground strike on the 4-3 (40% success). The PARA can put him out of supply if the ground strike succeeds. Rundstedt can overrun the 4-3.

Here is a rule of thumb: a single unit alone in a clear hex will almost always be overrun by armor. You can do calculations out your ears and you will find that your d###ed opponent will find a way to overrun him. I am a very good chess player and I am very good at math. But my opponent of many years (who is a grand master at chess) proved to me on numerous occasions that I could never be sure that my calculations were correct. Hence my rule of thumb.

Sorry, Steve, but you're wrong here. The PARA cannot put him out of supply in order to let an overrun happen. That's because an overrun happens during Land Movement, which comes before a paradrop -- which is an attack. Yes, it can put the unit OOS, but not in a way that lets the Germans reach the Dnieper.

So true, so true.[:(]

I still wouldn't have sacrificed the corps. The German attacks in their second impulse are going to be ferocious. That river line will hold for at most 1 impulse. Then everyone will be fleeing for their lives except the units that can't move. I doubt that the Germans could have positioned everyone where they wanted in their first impulse to breach the line. So, in my opinion, the 4-3 died for no gain.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

Doesn't an escort mission still disorganize the unit?

Yes.

What I believe will happen is that the Germans will rebase their Stukas forward in their 1st impulse. Then fly their Stukas on Ground Strike missions on their 2nd impulse. Rebase some of their other bombers forward on their 3rd. Fly those bombers on their 4th. So a pure fighter will be stuck in the far rear at the end of the turn. Might as well send him 4 hexes closer to the ever moving front now. But other players might want to keep him organized for moving forward in the hope that the turn lasts a long time.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Germany has no o-chit this turn & I'm not certain that Red Prince has built one (or is saving up for one).

At any rate, IMO the USSR is looking reasonably strong in the north: localized air superiority until the Germans bring their FTR up to the Vitebsk area & the river line they are already set up behind. In addition, once the time comes to leave the river line they have forests, cities and whatnot to fall back on all the way back to Gorki.

Again, in my opinion, as long as the USSR can fall back in good order and in strength, avoid getting planes overrun, and can throw up roadblocks (whether speedbumps or strongpoints) to slow the Germans down, they can handle some losses. Their goal is to trade space & units for time. The Americans are in, effectively a year earlier than usual, so the Germans have only one summer to get things done.

I believe the Germans have enough strength to breach the Dnieper both in the north and in the south. Then the Russian frontline increases by 4-5 hexes as it starts moving east. Some units will be lost when the breach occurs.

The Germans will use weak units to pin the Russians in ZOCs and concentrate their best units for a breakthrough. It will get ugly. Russian units left in the front will be mopped up by the slower German infantry in the rear and the armor/mechanized will exploit any holes that appear; or they will advance and devour some poor corps that gets left alone on his way east.
---
But then not again you may be right. The Germans don't have a lot of units that can move 5+ on this front.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

Doesn't an escort mission still disorganize the unit?

Yes.

What I believe will happen is that the Germans will rebase their Stukas forward in their 1st impulse. Then fly their Stukas on Ground Strike missions on their 2nd impulse. Rebase some of their other bombers forward on their 3rd. Fly those bombers on their 4th. So a pure fighter will be stuck in the far rear at the end of the turn. Might as well send him 4 hexes closer to the ever moving front now. But other players might want to keep him organized for moving forward in the hope that the turn lasts a long time.

Unfortunately, the invasion of Denmark means I'll probably have to plan things so that I can get an Air Action in somewhere in order to get the German air power where it is needed most. That will depend partially on the lovely 6-factor lend-lease Stuka that Italy placed in Trieste as a reinforcement. If it can get far enough north into Germany, that could ease some of the trouble the Germans might find themselves in.

Oh. I forgot to mention that Germany railed the last 2 Rumainian units from Cernauti into France. It may not be impressive, but at least the Rumanian force is all in one place now. And/or it lets most of the French Coast be in ZOC, so that Antonescu can rail to the front lines as a supply link as the North Front lines begin to stretch later in the turn. That will depend on the success or failure of Mannerhaim and the German northern contingent.

[composer99]

Where it looks really scary to me is the south: faster Germans, better tank terrain, more Stukas. Losses there could result in the USSR needing to pull units away from the north, leaving them short there (or short in both sectors).

Also, one thing which I am probably not taking into account is that Red Prince is playing with Railway Movement bonus, which makes things a lot easier for the ARM/MECH in the forests as long as they're travelling along a rail line (indeed, 4-moving units can follow a rail line through a swamp without disorganizing).

Let's see where the Axis are at after this impulse, especially with regards to the disposition of the air forces.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Where it looks really scary to me is the south: faster Germans, better tank terrain, more Stukas. Losses there could result in the USSR needing to pull units away from the north, leaving them short there (or short in both sectors).

Also, one thing which I am probably not taking into account is that Red Prince is playing with Railway Movement bonus, which makes things a lot easier for the ARM/MECH in the forests as long as they're travelling along a rail line (indeed, 4-moving units can follow a rail line through a swamp without disorganizing).

Let's see where the Axis are at after this impulse, especially with regards to the disposition of the air forces.

I think I've just finished setting up my attacks. If that 4-3 wasn't there, I'm near certain Kiev would be lost this impulse. All I can think to say is that the Soviets better hope for a short turn. I'll post the attacks and results in the next hour or so.
-----
Edit: The airforces are going to end up playing catch-up, I think.

[composer99]

The USSR wants a weather roll of 1 (Storm in Arctic, Rain in North Temperate) next impulse. If it screws with the Western Allies' plans for the turn, the USSR does not care (neither do the other Allies, really).