Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

[mariandavid]

Extraneous was quite correct and I admit to error on non-ruling royal titles in the pre-1918 fleet; stupidly I was thinking of capital ships only. All I can guess is that these were exceptions made to honor the ruling Kaiser's sons - I believe an unbuilt battlecruiser was to honour yet another son.

It is all very strange, the only other suggestion I have is that the 'Prinz' was added to 'Eugen' because a previous warship had carried the title - the A-H battleship; the same logic (for what it is worth) applies to 'Graf' Zeppelin.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: micheljq

I think the sistership of the german aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin was supposed to be named "Peter Strasser". Hull completed but never launched. If that can help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flugzeugtr%C3%A4ger_B

No offense intended, but I prefer not to use Wikipedia as my primary source of reference.

Wikipedia's lack of checking connecting links and somtimes misleading information can cause information errors.


Wikipedia: Peter Strasser

One possible but unconfirmed name for Flugzeugträger B, the unfinished sister ship of the WWII German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin, was Peter Strasser.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

No offense intended, but I prefer not to use Wikipedia as my primary source of reference.

Wikipedia's lack of checking connecting links and somtimes misleading information can cause information errors.

Wikipedia: Peter Strasser

One possible but unconfirmed name for Flugzeugträger B, the unfinished sister ship of the WWII German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin, was Peter Strasser.

Yes, edited. Oh you say you prefer not to use Wiki as a primary source and then give a wiki link, this is funny. [:D]

[warspite1]

I have finally got around to looking at the Super Yamoto what-if vessel. Details are sketchy to say the least so if there is anything that people can add I would be interested to hear.

[4361 Hizen - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 150,000 - 200,000 hp
.B Top Speed: Approx 27 knots
.B Main armament: 6 x 20-inch (510mm), Unspecified no. of 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): Approx 70,000 tons
.B Thickest armour: 18-inch (belt)
.P In addition to the five planned Yamato-class battleships, World In Flames
allows the Japanese player to build one of the two planned "Super Yamatos" - ship
798. These ships - design A150 - were an attempt to counter anything the United
States Navy may have built in response to the Yamato-class. Sadly, the plans for
this class that did survive the war appear to be sketchy, so little of the detail
is known.
.P It is thought certain however that they would have employed a 20-inch main
armament, fitted within three twin turrets. The main armament would have been
supported by the dual-purpose 3.9-inch gun, although no numbers are available.
.P The armour protection was likely to have been extensive and an 18-inch belt
was to have been fitted. No other details are known, but there is no certainty that
the IJN would have learned from the armour protection layout limitations of the
Yamato-class (see Yamato).
.P Note, the Hizen counter is not superior to the Yamato-class ships. This may be
for play balance purposes. Alternatively, it may be that it was considered that
it was impractical to fit a 20-inch gun, without severe problems affecting the
hull and superstructure of the ships; thereby affecting overall effectiveness.
.P In reality, the building of this class, coming after the completion of the
five Yamatos, was probably well beyond the economic and industrial means of Japan
in peace time; after the Pacific War had started, they were never even a remote
possibility, as was proved with the Yamatos. The raw materials that were required to
build these ships were too desperately needed elsewhere.
.P No name was chosen for either ship, but ADG have given this Super Yamato "what
if" counter the name Hizen in line with Imperial Japanese Navy naming convention;
Hizen being a former province of Japan.
.P Ship 798 and 799 were cancelled before even being ordered in 1942.

[Extraneous]

The actual IJN battleship Hizen.

Hizen Province

Hizen – adjective; adverb taking the particle

[warspite1]

Which ship am I?

I appear as a counter in World In Flames.
I was completed in 1939, just before the outbreak of WWII.
40% of my sisters failed to survive the war but I was lucky enough to come through.
I was badly damaged very early in the war and only came back into service half way through WWII.
I subsequently saw action in a high profile naval battle.
I was named after a capital city.
I am still in one piece and reside in a capital city - but not the one I am named after.

[composer99]

Are you sure that doesn't belong in the WWII quiz thread, Warspite? [:'(]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Are you sure that doesn't belong in the WWII quiz thread, Warspite? [:'(]

Warspite1

Doh!!

[warspite1]

Please see B64-type battlecruisers / Super heavy cruiser. Hopefully someone can assist with the name Seiki. I cannot find a rationale for this anywhere

[4373 Unebi - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 160,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 33 knots
.B Main armament: 9 x 14-inch (356mm), 16 x 3.9-inch (100mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 34,800 tons
.B Thickest armour: 7.5-inch (belt)
.P The Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) began work on designing a new class of
Super A-type heavy cruiser in 1939 - the B64 type. The design was then modified
in 1942 to allow a heavier main armament once details of the US Alaska-class
became known. This modification would have meant the fitting of a 14-inch main
armament rather than the original 12.2-inch design, thus trumping the main
armament of the Alaskas. This thinking was consistent with the IJN policy of
achieving qualitiative superiority over their US counterparts.
.P The nine main guns would have been fitted in three twin turrets and would
have been supported by sixteen 3.9-inch dual-purpose guns fitted in eight twin
turrets. Close range anti-aircraft defence would have relied on the 25mm and
13.2mm weapons, which no doubt would have been heavily increased compared to the
original design. Torpedo tubes were originally included but these would have been
removed in the revised design in order to save weight.
.P Armour protection would have been inferior to the Alaska's, with belt armour
at a maximum of 7.5-inches. Vertical protection would have been provided by a
5-inch deck.
.P The ships would have been fast, with a top speed of 33 knots, making them
ideal to escort fleet carriers. Visually, the class would have resembled the
Yamato-class battleships.
.P The ships - officially known as 795 and 796 - were never ordered before being
cancelled due to other priorities once the war had started. They were never named
but ADG has given them the names Seiki and Unebi. Unebi is a mountain in Nara
prefecture, Seiki is .........

[brian brian]

"once details of the US Alaska-class became known"

this makes me wonder ... how did the Japanese discover such details?

I thought the Alaska class ships barely fitted out on time for the end of the war? (Basing that totally on wondering about that pile of SCS in the late years of the USA force pool that are still the shiniest counters in my set and little else....)

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

"once details of the US Alaska-class became known"

this makes me wonder ... how did the Japanese discover such details?

I thought the Alaska class ships barely fitted out on time for the end of the war? (Basing that totally on wondering about that pile of SCS in the late years of the USA force pool that are still the shiniest counters in my set and little else....)

Warspite 1

There was almost certainly German, Italian and Japanese spies keeping watch on developments and reporting back.

The first Alaska was completed in June 1944, but had been laid down as early as December 1941. I think there was a steel shortgae at one point and the carriers were given priority - this may have slowed completion down.

[warspite1]

Help required please.

In Cruisers In Flames the Japanese have the option to build two light cruisers named Saien and Takachiho. I can see no reference to these cruisers and so assume they are "what if" counters. They could be two of the nine ships of the Oyodo-class, eight of which were cancelled before being begun. I cannot see that these are names of Japanese rivers (which does not indicate they are light cruisers, but they do appear in CinF which suggests they are???????

In the absence of any information to the contrary, I shall assume that these are Oyodo-class, but if anyone knows of a class of planned cruiser or can shed any light on this I would appreciate it.

Thank-you.

[Sewerlobster]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Help required please.

In Cruisers In Flames the Japanese have the option to build two light cruisers named Saien and Takachiho. I can see no reference to these cruisers and so assume they are "what if" counters. They could be two of the nine ships of the Oyodo-class, eight of which were cancelled before being begun. I cannot see that these are names of Japanese rivers (which does not indicate they are light cruisers, but they do appear in CinF which suggests they are???????

In the absence of any information to the contrary, I shall assume that these are Oyodo-class, but if anyone knows of a class of planned cruiser or can shed any light on this I would appreciate it.

Thank-you.

Saien

All I found was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Takachiho and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IJN_Saien_in_1895.jpg both keels apparently laid in the 1890's

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Help required please.

In Cruisers In Flames the Japanese have the option to build two light cruisers named Saien and Takachiho. I can see no reference to these cruisers and so assume they are "what if" counters. They could be two of the nine ships of the Oyodo-class, eight of which were cancelled before being begun. I cannot see that these are names of Japanese rivers (which does not indicate they are light cruisers, but they do appear in CinF which suggests they are???????

In the absence of any information to the contrary, I shall assume that these are Oyodo-class, but if anyone knows of a class of planned cruiser or can shed any light on this I would appreciate it.

Thank-you.

Saien

All I found was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Takachiho and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IJN_Saien_in_1895.jpg both keels apparently laid in the 1890's

Warspite1

Thanks, but no, the ships in CinF are from 1943. Mind you, having looked at the link, at least I now know that Takachiho was named after a mountain. This means she is a heavy cruiser - so not an Oyodo-class. Man, this can be frustrating at times [&:]

[Anendrue]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Help required please.

In Cruisers In Flames the Japanese have the option to build two light cruisers named Saien and Takachiho. I can see no reference to these cruisers and so assume they are "what if" counters. They could be two of the nine ships of the Oyodo-class, eight of which were cancelled before being begun. I cannot see that these are names of Japanese rivers (which does not indicate they are light cruisers, but they do appear in CinF which suggests they are???????

In the absence of any information to the contrary, I shall assume that these are Oyodo-class, but if anyone knows of a class of planned cruiser or can shed any light on this I would appreciate it.

Thank-you.

Saien

All I found was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Takachiho and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IJN_Saien_in_1895.jpg both keels apparently laid in the 1890's

Warspite1

Thanks, but no, the ships in CinF are from 1943. Mind you, having looked at the link, at least I now know that Takachiho was named after a mountain. This means she is a heavy cruiser - so not an Oyodo-class. Man, this can be frustrating at times [&:]

It may be a pain at times. However, we all (at least me and my brood) appreciate the effort you are putting into this!

[Extraneous]

Light, Small, or "Type B" cruisers were generally named after rivers & streams.

Please read the kuma class CL names.

The Related links will tell you that CL’s are also named after shrines  as in “Takachiho Shrine”.

Takachiho Shrine, located just west of the town center, is nestled in a grove of tall cedars. During the day the shrine's nondescript, unpainted buildings blend in naturally with the surrounding trees. The light that filters through, brings with it an air of calm, peaceful reverence.

The town of Takachiho is the site of one of the most important and well know legends of Japanese mythology. In the story, Amaterasu, the Shinto sun goddess, became so outraged by her brother's cruel pranks that she hid herself in a cave, refusing to come out and depriving the world of her life-giving light.

All of the other gods and goddesses gathered to lure her out. They tried everything they could think of to no avail until one goddess performed an outrageously ribald dance that caused the other gods to roar with laughter. Amaterasu left the cave to see what all the fun was about, and in doing so she returned her light to the world.

AND…

During the First Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895, captured Chinese ships in many cases retained their names, although the pronunciations of the ships' names were changed from their original Chinese pronunciations to the Japanese kanji pronunciations. For example, the Chinese battleship Chen Yuan became Chin'en when she was put into Japanese Navy service. Captured Russian ships during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905 were renamed to Japanese names. There was no strict convention for the naming of the captured Russian ships. Some were phonetically renamed, while others were renamed based on the location or date of the battles in which the ships were captured. Some captured Chinese ships were renamed similarly.

Jiyuan (Chineese) becomes Saien (Kanji)


This should explain Takachiho and Saien

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Light, Small, or "Type B" cruisers were generally named after rivers & streams.

Please read the kuma class CL names.

The Related links will tell you that CL’s are also named after shrines  as in “Takachiho Shrine”.

Takachiho Shrine, located just west of the town center, is nestled in a grove of tall cedars. During the day the shrine's nondescript, unpainted buildings blend in naturally with the surrounding trees. The light that filters through, brings with it an air of calm, peaceful reverence.

The town of Takachiho is the site of one of the most important and well know legends of Japanese mythology. In the story, Amaterasu, the Shinto sun goddess, became so outraged by her brother's cruel pranks that she hid herself in a cave, refusing to come out and depriving the world of her life-giving light.

All of the other gods and goddesses gathered to lure her out. They tried everything they could think of to no avail until one goddess performed an outrageously ribald dance that caused the other gods to roar with laughter. Amaterasu left the cave to see what all the fun was about, and in doing so she returned her light to the world.

AND…

During the First Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895, captured Chinese ships in many cases retained their names, although the pronunciations of the ships' names were changed from their original Chinese pronunciations to the Japanese kanji pronunciations. For example, the Chinese battleship Chen Yuan became Chin'en when she was put into Japanese Navy service. Captured Russian ships during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905 were renamed to Japanese names. There was no strict convention for the naming of the captured Russian ships. Some were phonetically renamed, while others were renamed based on the location or date of the battles in which the ships were captured. Some captured Chinese ships were renamed similarly.

Jiyuan (Chineese) becomes Saien (Kanji)


This should explain Takachiho and Saien

Warspite1

Mziln - if you are still around - can you let me know which source you used to identify Takachiho and Saien as Oyodo-class please? Many thanks.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Mziln - if you are still around - can you let me know which source you used to identify Takachiho and Saien as Oyodo-class please? Many thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Saien
http://www.definethis.org/word/Chinese_ ... iyuan.html
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/j ... uisers.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Takachiho
http://www.definethis.org/word/Japanese ... chiho.html
http://www.battleships.ru/warships/taka ... alkov.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsingtao

ORIGINAL: Mziln

warspite1, for any credit for work done in the write-ups:


You are not authorized to use the name “Mziln” or “Jesse G. Nelson” or “Jesse Nelson” or variations on these names.

You are authorized to use “Anonymous”, “Patrice Forno”, or take the credit yourself.



This was discussed by email with Patrice Forno, Shannon V. Okeets, and one other (I forget who and have deleted the email).

Further discussion about the usage of these names and the “Mziln” account is not allowed due to possible violation of the NDA.

[:D] In the old Neverwiter Nights MUD my handle "Extraneous" was shortened to "Extra" [:D]

Extra is Mziln in Drow.

Drow translator House Maerdyn

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Mziln - if you are still around - can you let me know which source you used to identify Takachiho and Saien as Oyodo-class please? Many thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Saien
http://www.definethis.org/word/Chinese_ ... iyuan.html
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/j ... uisers.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Takachiho
http://www.definethis.org/word/Japanese ... chiho.html
http://www.battleships.ru/warships/taka ... alkov.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsingtao

Warspite1

I looked at the links above but could see nothing that answered my question - have I missed something?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

warspite1, for any credit for work done in the write-ups:


You are not authorized to use the name “Mziln” or “Jesse G. Nelson” or “Jesse Nelson” or variations on these names.

You are authorized to use “Anonymous”, “Patrice Forno”, or take the credit yourself.



This was discussed by email with Patrice Forno, Shannon V. Okeets, and one other (I forget who and have deleted the email).

Further discussion about the usage of these names and the “Mziln” account is not allowed due to possible violation of the NDA.

Warspite1

Not sure I understand what all the above is about - nor do I want to - but rest assured I shall not be using any reference to Mziln, Jesse G. Nelson, Jesse Nelson or any variation thereof. Neither for that matter will I use Anonymous or Patrice Forno or myself. The bibliography will highlight books and websites that have provided information for the write-ups; not individuals.