The Future Of Complex Wargames Looks Bleak

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
Do you know about Alea Jacta Est series?

Very good and enjoyable series! [:)]

[Jagdtiger14]

aaatoysandmore:

More ancient warfare games are needed. Turn based not Total War RTS type and better than Field of Glory at least the AI. I found EU:Rome refreshing as well even if Paradox made it. I just wish someone could make a grand campaign game turn based of Ancient Times/Roman Times like Total War but without all the RTS.

I would like to see the period 493AD to 711AD. Ostrogoths, Visogoths, Byzantium, Franks, Vandals, Burgundians, Lombards, Alamans, Jutes, Saxons, Britons, Angles, Picts, Muslims.

Without using the AGEOD game system.

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: Tesuji

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
If we don't unlock how to make war games 'neat' to a 13 year old, it will die with me. And there's really nothing you can do about it.

I´m not so sure complex wargames have been popular among 13yr olds at *any* time.

Maybe you were the only 13yr old girl owning Tactics II in a 300km radius? [8D]

I am pretty much sure I was the only 14yr old owning "Rise and Decline of the 3rd Reich" in my city, and it´s a reasonably large city.

I've always been odd and rare. And in truth, in my entirely life, I've only actually met about 5 actual war gamers in person. But I live in a small rural town too. When I was 13, it was a different world for 13 year olds than it is today.

[Hattori Hanzo]

I would like to see the period 493AD to 711AD. Ostrogoths, Visogoths, Byzantium, Franks, Vandals, Burgundians, Lombards, Alamans, Jutes, Saxons, Britons, Angles, Picts, Muslims.

Without using the AGEOD game system

why ?
AGEOD system in my opinion is not bad at all.. [&:]

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo
AGEOD system in my opinion is not bad at all..

For some reason, I don't care for AGEOD games either; I love how the games look, but after a few attempts I just don't enjoy them. Can't really explain why...

[Jagdtiger14]

why ? AGEOD system in my opinion is not bad at all..

Well, to be honest, I have not played any AGEOD game. Last year I was deciding on which WWI game to buy and was warned off any AGEOD game. The reasons I was given:
1. The interface is extremely difficult to understand.
2. Lots of crashes/code errors.
3. Learning a game system...I can understand learning the rules to the actual game, I just don't want to learn a gaming system.
4. Ageod has been around for a while now, and I understand its being updated or another version of it is being developed...maybe after that's completed I could give it a try if the reviews on it are good.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

If we don't unlock how to make war games 'neat' to a 13 year old, it will die with me. And there's really nothing you can do about it.

I recall reading on BattleTech forum about a guy, who had got BattleTech game to entertain some kids who could have been 13 years old or close of that age. They played it and enjoyed of it. About half of the kids were girls and they played it too. He had divided kids into 2 teams: boys and girls. Girls won and "were howling like banshees". Children are from religious families and some of their parents don't like about this sort of entertainment. At least not guy's wife. Now guy has urge to rub his hands and laugh maniacally at front of certain people. That is what I can remember and I can't find the topic right now [:(]

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

aaatoysandmore:

More ancient warfare games are needed. Turn based not Total War RTS type and better than Field of Glory at least the AI. I found EU:Rome refreshing as well even if Paradox made it. I just wish someone could make a grand campaign game turn based of Ancient Times/Roman Times like Total War but without all the RTS.

I would like to see the period 493AD to 711AD. Ostrogoths, Visogoths, Byzantium, Franks, Vandals, Burgundians, Lombards, Alamans, Jutes, Saxons, Britons, Angles, Picts, Muslims.

Without using the AGEOD game system.

Hear Hear! [:D]

[sIg3b]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

When I was 13, it was a different world for 13 year olds than it is today.

Of course! I am just meaning to say it has never been easy to sell complex games for thinking people. Probably equally difficult for Avalon Hill back then and Matrix/Slitherine right now.

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: Tesuji

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

When I was 13, it was a different world for 13 year olds than it is today.

Of course! I am just meaning to say it has never been easy to sell complex games for thinking people. Probably equally difficult for Avalon Hill back then and Matrix/Slitherine right now.

I dunno when I was 13 I wanted every Avalon Hill game made and they were like $3.64 and my mom said they were too expensive. [:'(]
If she'd only lived to see the price of games today. [:D]

Luckily though I got $3.00 to $5.00 mowing yards so bought as many as "I" could afford.

Bought the original "Guadacanal" from a friend for $3.00 man did I make mint off that game years later. [:D]

[Hattori Hanzo]

sound a bit strange to me, I almost always read enthusiastic reviews of AGEOD system wargames

[DonCzirr]

I have Rise of Prussia Gold on my Steam Wishlist but it's only due to my orientation towards anything Prussian ...

They (AGEOD) seem to have some reputation dings on them for stability in the past - so I will buy only at a discount.

[Hattori Hanzo]

well, I own nearly all the AGEOD wargames and I never had stability problems with them

[DonCzirr]

Do you dare to say that customer reviews on Steam may contain inaccuracies or exaggerations? [:)]

Thanks for your input on that Hattori.

I love the Eras / subject matter they cover so I may give them more serious consideration going forward ...

Would you say that their games actually fit into the "Complex" category of this original post?

FYI - I don't mind complex at all - if the overall impact of the game is enjoyable ...

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: DonCzirr

They (AGEOD) seem to have some reputation dings on them for stability in the past - so I will buy only at a discount.

Could hardware and/or operating system be factor in here? Like how SPWAW fraks up only with certain processors and Windows 7?

[Hattori Hanzo]

I know you are a lover of the Horses and Muskets wargames, and so you should absolutely like the AGEOD wargames of that same period.. [:)]
I own and I have played both Birth of America and Birth of America 2 and they shine in my opinion.
also AGEOD American Civil War it's a great wargame.

about complexity, although not "monster" they are pretty adequate in my opinion.

I'm an old school boardgame "grognard" (55 years old) and I know exactly the meaning of "complex wargames".. [;)]

[DonCzirr]

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

I know you are a lover of the Horses and Muskets wargames, and so you should absolutely like the AGEOD wargames of that some period.. [:)]
I own and I have played both Birth of America and Birth of America 2 and they shine in my opinion.
also AGEOD American Civil War it's a great wargame.

about complexity, although not "monster" they are pretty adequate in my opinion.

I'm an old school boardgame "grognard" (55 years old) and I know exactly the meaning of "complex wargames".. [;)]

Ah ... from the old 3rd Reich in the Friend's Basement generation like me [:)]

I have come to look at Wargames like TV shows these days ...

Sometimes you want something heavy and involved like Hannibal or Game of Thrones ... sometimes an old episode of The Office is just the right thing ...

Last night, I was playing Battle Academy 2 on the iPAD while watching TV with the family ...

Today I am playing CMANO for more complexity ... I'm loving the mix of complexities and subject matter currently available.

So - in general, I think the industry is doing well overall and I'm enjoying my hobby today as much as I did 10 or 15 years ago.

[sIg3b]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I dunno when I was 13 I wanted every Avalon Hill game made and they were like $3.64 and my mom said they were too expensive. [:'(]
If she'd only lived to see the price of games today. [:D]

Luckily though I got $3.00 to $5.00 mowing yards so bought as many as "I" could afford.

Bought the original "Guadacanal" from a friend for $3.00 man did I make mint off that game years later. [:D]

Ok, let me rephrase again. What I meant was it was just as difficult back then to *make a profit* selling complex games, and you sorta confirm that. [:)]

Think of all the great gaming companies that went under, even those who had cashcows: Parker (Risk), Milton Bradley (Axis and Allies), Microprose (Civilization), SSI,...

[Hattori Hanzo]

Think of all the great gaming companies that went under, even those who had cashcows: Parker (Risk), Milton Bradley (Axis and Allies), Microprose (Civilization), SSI,...

well.. I would not consider "Risk" and "Axis and Allies" under the same category of "Civilization"..
and anyway they are not at all "Complex Wargames.. [:-] [8D]

[Hattori Hanzo]

So - in general, I think the industry is doing well overall and I'm enjoying my hobby today as much as I did 10 or 15 years ago.

I agree, I enjoy my Wargames and Strategy Games passion today (both in their boardgame and computer game forms) as much as I enjoyed it 30 years ago.. [:)]