War in the Pacific Release thread

eriador08
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by eriador08 »

Elessar2 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:13 am eriador08, that is MUCHO appreciated. What scenario version # is it?
Your are welcome. It is version .902
Elessar2 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:13 am Aarrgghh, I know why you couldn't get into Vladivostok. The Coastal Gun has a ZoC penalty of 10 iirc. Idea was to make them have teeth and slow down movement-in vanilla you'll never allow your ships to be shot by one unless you're not paying attention or you swamp the thing during a big invasion. The editor however doesn't differentiate between naval and land units, alas. Just soften it down to 4 and you can move past it.
That makes it clear now. But that is a bit of a problem, because it is hard to soften it down to 4, when you cannot get close to it with land units. Could later also be a problem with the Japanese Costal Guns, when fighting breaks out on the Home Island.
Elessar2 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:13 am Unless Congress raises a huge stink and/or FDR resigns, I think the results of this match demonstrate pretty conclusively, it is safe to say, that the IJN ideal of the Decisive Battle [Mahan style] was a pipe dream even if they won big. Note quite a few damaged ships of theirs never got repaired before the war ended. Both sides lost 4 of their prewar fleet flattops: even if Japan wins the early clashes 6:0 they will be in deep trouble by mid-44 t the latest.
That is ture. I would be down to a little damaged fleet now, even if i won bigger at the start.
Elessar2 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:13 am Oh, meant to ask about any script bugs or such.
I cant think of anything big. The only thing that bothered me is the question, if it is intended, that civil unrest breaks out in Burma every turn that the allies occupy it?
Elessar2 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:13 am I see you bought 2 levels of Army Mobilization, but as you said you had no chance for any new ship (or presumably air) builds, which again is more or less historical, tho they pumped out the Taiho and 3 Unryus + the Shinano conversion. [Go Quiet China
and you could probably spring for them]
I took Army Mobilization, because i wanted to focus on land warfare after the first clashes. It was especially needed for smaller Units to keep Partisans occupied. I in fact build a new occasional Maritime Bomber here or a Fighter there or rebuild sometimes but nothing big. Cash was low.
Elessar2 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:13 am Were carriers king, or could the big boys get in their licks?
In an orderly engagement you can say that carriers were very effective and big boys were too slow and hitting not hard enough. If i remember correctly, I was surprised sometimes, how little damage big ships made. But in smaller engagements and when everything was chaos, they could make a hit or two.
Elessar2 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:13 am Tooting my own horn looks like I got the balance pretty close to spot on. I may decrease ship repair costs (they are eating me up in my vanilla derived test scenario). Again, thanks a ton.
Yes, if it was the intention that Japan should have a good shot for a nice start and a very, very hard time after, you nailed it. We had a great game anyway. If you want to tip the balance for playability a bit, I would however try to favor Japan. Decreased ship repair costs would be something, that would have helped me. Should the game be realistic or balanced? Maybe some clearer Vicotry Conditions would be nice, like: Japan - Try to survive! :lol:

I will answer some more questions you had before in another post.
eriador08
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by eriador08 »

Elessar2 wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:16 pm 6. The Chinese partisans were a very conscious decision: the IJA had no prayer of being able to hold most much less all of China; did you basically resign yourself to ceding unimportant areas to the partisans?

7. Did land-based air play a big part in fleet actions? Were auto scouting ranges too big?

8. My 3 techs which were necessary to increase your force pools, did they work out ok? How many levels did you invest in?

9. Did the RN/Australian Navy play a big role in the fleet actions?

10. Did land combat seem balanced? I overhauled pretty much the entire thing. Any units which proved unbalancing or too wimpy?

11. I also buffed up shore bombardment for cruisers on up-not too unbalancing either way?

12. Ship types all balanced? Did anyone build the Yamatos or Montanas?
6. I found this decision great. Fighting in China was nice and you had to plan ahead to cover every land you got. The price of holding all of China is very high and i could not pay it. After finishing of China i tried to hold as much as possible and retreated over time to free up units to defend or engage elsewhere.

7. They were nice to defend and scout, especially against subs. They also engaged in fleet actions when possible with mixed results. A HQ nearby is very profitable but not possible everywhere. Auto scouting ranges were very big, but we got used to it. In my opinion it is okay and helped me a lot in this big map. But it should not get bigger.

8. See former post.

9. See former post. But it could have gone in a different direction.

10. I cannot say much about tanks, as i did not invest in them. Corps did most of the work. I also invested in mobility to be faster in China. I think it benefitet me in pushing faster and exploiting breakthroughs. I even managed two big encirclements with arround 10 Chinese units of mixed quality. And without railways and with bad terrain it can be a pain to move arround.

11. I cant say much, as i rarely bombarded with cruisers. Did not know they got buffed here.

12. I build the Yamatos, I think. I think they are dreadnought in game or do i mix up something? Anyway those super battleships had not much fighting power iirc. One engaged against a Cruiser in a big clash, did nearly no damage and got shot down the next turn. But it was cool to have. :mrgreen:
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Elessar2
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Welp OCB can tell you just how much of a stickler I can be for historical accuracy. I do plan to reduce ship repair %'s to 30%, BUT with a new wrinkle. I tried to kludge a way to simulate oil usage, but the cure was worse than the disease. I was thinking of Kido Butai at Midway, where Parshall & Tully in their book on the battle noted that both the ships and the planes were in bad need of an overhaul. In game terms I'd peg both to be no more than a strength of 8, for both the ship and the air wing. They had been on almost constant patrol for 6 months leading up to that battle...

I then realized that I do have a way to simulate wear and tear, if not fuel use. Storm damage. Used to be a ship would have a small chance of taking damage in a storm, but one of the patches changed it to a morale hit, [I wish it was a supply hit, but there are only two things you can implement in the editor] I can change that back to say a 50% chance of damage, maybe more for destroyers some of which capsized in typhoons. Less for subs since they can submerge and ride things out 300 feet down. That means no more endless turns at sea without ever docking; you create a task force for a specific objective, head straight there and execute your tactical plan, then sail back to base.

So I do still have game balance in mind, and this may be one way to help the IJN out, just as long as they don't take the kind of prolonged pleasure cruises that OCB is so fond of. :mrgreen: He recced that I create "calm zones" around major ports, easily done.
eriador08
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by eriador08 »

Elessar2 wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:37 am I then realized that I do have a way to simulate wear and tear, if not fuel use. Storm damage. Used to be a ship would have a small chance of taking damage in a storm, but one of the patches changed it to a morale hit, [I wish it was a supply hit, but there are only two things you can implement in the editor] I can change that back to say a 50% chance of damage, maybe more for destroyers some of which capsized in typhoons. Less for subs since they can submerge and ride things out 300 feet down. That means no more endless turns at sea without ever docking; you create a task force for a specific objective, head straight there and execute your tactical plan, then sail back to base.
That would be an interesting twist. Increases also the importance of occupying many docks in reach.

I found something else i wanted to show, that i forgot and bothered me for a while.

Is it intended, that you can operate into the area between Nanjing and Shanghai, but you cannot operate out of this area?
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OldCrowBalthazor
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Good catch Eriador. I forgot to ask about this too.
I think it was a bug or something to do about Nanjing.
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Elessar2
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Yeah, I goofed the rail through the town didn't connect all feeder lines. :oops:

Appreciate it gentlemen.
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Elessar2 wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:04 am Yeah, I goofed the rail through the town didn't connect all feeder lines. :oops:

Appreciate it gentlemen.
Oh thats what it was!
Man through all the testing and then doing our MP matches I never got around about telling you this frustration with not being able to operate OUT of Shanghai.
(Was more worried about getting Burma squared away and the Singapore Island deal, plus how I would go about conducting a 'Balls to the Wall' plan(s) for my rampage across the Pacific haha)
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Elessar2
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Elessar2 »

:shock:
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Beriand
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Beriand »

Hello :) I played this great mod a bit in hotseat (with some conclusion that in 1944 decomposition of Japan forces due to lacking MPPs seemed to be waaay more rapid than historical), but had no occasion to try multiplayer. So if there is anyone interested in PBEM, I would gladly play. I have lots of experience with SC series multiplayer, but none in this much-changing mod, so would prefer to take Allies side against some good opponent, but in other cases could also try Japanese.

Yeah yeah, I know I can try in 'Multiplayer Sessions' subforum, will do so if here get no success :geek:

Also, it might be beneficial if Elessar placed working link to the newest version files in the first post.
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Elessar2
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Elessar2 »

If there is renewed interest I can crank out an update before next weekend.

Preliminary changelog:

Sub changes as denoted in the Submarine thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&start=40

Some alternate convoy routes in case certain countries get conquered or blockaded.

Japan may benefit from ships only repairing at 30% total cost (currently is 50% vanilla's value).

NM hits reduced by c. 40% across the board

Capital ship sub defense lowered

Storm damage re-implemented (years ago you could take a point of damage in a storm), thinking about a 20% base chance, adjusted for ship type.

Tone down Burma supply events over time (while delaying Burma partisan events-which can only affect one side-Axis-which
is why I had to make the supply events to affect the Allies).

Forced to reduce coastal guns ZoC down to 1 (cannot make them only affect ships). Or make sure all coastal guns spawn on one hex islands. If so their defense vs. ships/aircraft will be toned down.

BB/BC/DN all have their naval attack/defense bumped up by one (to make them more dominant vs. smaller ships).

Fix Nanjing rail.

A victory conditions popup at the start of the scenario.

Will have to figure out how to implement hover text over map symbols (to denote garrison requirements and ship movement restrictions and such).

Default bomber/CV resource MPP damage and NM hits are all over the board, will have to make them more in line with the bomber type.

Again, I am open to suggestions to help Japan. One implication I have inferred is that US income late in the game (once they've reached L5 IT) may be rather overpowering.
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Beriand
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Beriand »

Elessar2 wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:42 pm If there is renewed interest I can crank out an update before next weekend.
Well, it does not look like it... But one can hope :P

Japs late-game situation is a bit tricky one. They probably 'should not' be able to maintain their fleet and aircrafts in good fighting shape into late 1944, so this is ok I guess. But amphibious landings on Japan (and maybe also handful other strongholds) should be quite hard, Downfall/Olympic/Coronet looked pretty grim. Well, in this engine amphibs landing are easy, and there is almost complete disregard for losses (losing an escort carrier hurts more than 50k infantry, in NM and MPPs/time).
Then, maybe Japan needs some help in infantry department, invasion-blocking. Militia spawns from close Allied units are very small for them, like, Australia has probably more, while having 10x less potential. Maybe some more militias, and decisions in 1944 to get some infantry for 40-50% regular MPPs cost? So they can replenish infantry, but ships/aircrafts not that much. Not sure, but some ideas ;)
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

I definitely like those 'Infantry' ideas for Japan...more militia and additional home guard type spawns.
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Elessar2 »

But by that point they've basically already lost.

May drop starting US Ind Tech one level, making them gear up over a longer period of time.
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Elessar2 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:11 pm But by that point they've basically already lost.
Well yeah...but that's the point. The Japanese fighting to the bitter end. It's either Operation Olympic or Atom Bombs....and then some.
There are a few of us die hards that won't quit and I would roleplay it out till I'm '86ed' out of the bar. 🤠
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by PharaohVirgoCompy »

Could you do a youtube video on how to install the mod?
I can't seem to do it
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by BillRunacre »

PharaohVirgoCompy wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:24 am Could you do a youtube video on how to install the mod?
I can't seem to do it
Hopefully this post helps:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9&t=333915
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Elessar2
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Yeah, I think we all as newbs tried to install user-made scenarios in the default game folder and not the Mygames one.
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Elessar2 »

Version 903 release

https://www.mediafire.com/file/d8h50v8z ... 3.zip/file

-----------------------------------------------------------‐---‐----‐-------------------------
Strategic Command War in the Pacific Version Notes 903
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Several key changes to submarines:

* 100% retreat chance-note they will only do this when surfaced and with less than 5 strength points AFTER the enemy attack is completed
* Retreat distance = 13
* No supply losses when attacked
* -2 supply to DDs/DEs when they attack
* +0.5 sub naval defense per level
* US sub tech increased to L1, but none are upgraded at start
* Base sub raiding value changed from 12 to 15, then +3 per level (was +2), starting NM 30 (was 25)

Other naval changes:

* 30% repair costs for capital ships
* 40% for cruisers
* 50% DD/DE/subs/MTB [unchanged]

Storm damage for all ships:

* DN Down to CL, 10%, -1 strength point loss max
* DD/DE, 15%, -2 max
* SS 5%, 0 max
* Morale drops unchanged

Safe havens from storms available in a 1 hex radii around every port

Intratropical weather zones given split into land and sea zones

Also some tweaks to convoy raiding for surface ships, tech unchanged:

Raid NM
--------------------------------
DN 8 20
BB 8 15
FB/BC 10 25
Subs 15 30

Buffs to Naval Attack/Defense for heavy surface ships:

US
-------------------
DN NA/ND = 7
BB NA/ND = 5
Fast BB NA/ND = 6

UK
-------------------
DN NA/ND = 6
BB NA/ND = 5/6 [The Lions were basically upgunned King George V's, essentially equivalent to the Iowas]
Fast BB NA/ND = 4

IJN
-------------------
DN NA/ND = 7
BB NA/ND = 5
Fast BB NA/ND = 4

As well as slight drops in Sub Defense for all 3 (0.5 base, +0.5 per level: was +1 per level)


Redundant US-Australia Lend Lease line to Perth

National Morale penalties/bonuses dropped by about 1/3rd across the board

Yamato National Morale penalty dropped back to -7500

Coastal guns ZoC dropped from +7 to +1, ground defense dropped to 1 vs. Soft, 0 vs. everything else

Fixed the Nanjing rail (which was inadvertently unconnected)

Added More Japan militia spawns, +1 inf unit each for 4 events

US starting Industrial Tech level lowered from 2 to 1

Max chits for both Production and Industrial Tech increased to 3

Reduced diplomacy percentages per chit from 5 to 3 for minors, 10 to 6 for majors

Turned off Burmese anti-Japanese partisans, for now (anti-Allied supply scripts remain)

Bombay blockade hexes added

=======================
To do for next update
=======================

Burma partisans readded but progressively delayed

Add an IJA allied Burmese garrison or 2 via events

Add more blockade hexes (you can still do it yourself w/o the scripts to help you, tho it is slower only -1 per turn)

Victory conditions popup at start

New text warnings for the ! key

Redundant Lend Lease line running from US-UK-India if Australia is in trouble (needs dummy DE's)
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by OldCrowBalthazor »

Elessar2 wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:25 am Version 903 release

https://www.mediafire.com/file/d8h50v8z ... 3.zip/file

-----------------------------------------------------------‐---‐----‐-------------------------
Strategic Command War in the Pacific Version Notes 903
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Several key changes to submarines:

* 100% retreat chance-note they will only do this when surfaced and with less than 5 strength points AFTER the enemy attack is completed
* Retreat distance = 13
* No supply losses when attacked
* -2 supply to DDs/DEs when they attack
* +0.5 sub naval defense per level
* US sub tech increased to L1, but none are upgraded at start
* Base sub raiding value changed from 12 to 15, then +3 per level (was +2), starting NM 30 (was 25)

Other naval changes:

* 30% repair costs for capital ships
* 40% for cruisers
* 50% DD/DE/subs/MTB [unchanged]

Storm damage for all ships:

* DN Down to CL, 10%, -1 strength point loss max
* DD/DE, 15%, -2 max
* SS 5%, 0 max
* Morale drops unchanged

Safe havens from storms available in a 1 hex radii around every port

Intratropical weather zones given split into land and sea zones

Also some tweaks to convoy raiding for surface ships, tech unchanged:

Raid NM
--------------------------------
DN 8 20
BB 8 15
FB/BC 10 25
Subs 15 30

Buffs to Naval Attack/Defense for heavy surface ships:

US
-------------------
DN NA/ND = 7
BB NA/ND = 5
Fast BB NA/ND = 6

UK
-------------------
DN NA/ND = 6
BB NA/ND = 5/6 [The Lions were basically upgunned King George V's, essentially equivalent to the Iowas]
Fast BB NA/ND = 4

IJN
-------------------
DN NA/ND = 7
BB NA/ND = 5
Fast BB NA/ND = 4

As well as slight drops in Sub Defense for all 3 (0.5 base, +0.5 per level: was +1 per level)


Redundant US-Australia Lend Lease line to Perth

National Morale penalties/bonuses dropped by about 1/3rd across the board

Yamato National Morale penalty dropped back to -7500

Coastal guns ZoC dropped from +7 to +1, ground defense dropped to 1 vs. Soft, 0 vs. everything else

Fixed the Nanjing rail (which was inadvertently unconnected)

Added More Japan militia spawns, +1 inf unit each for 4 events

US starting Industrial Tech level lowered from 2 to 1

Max chits for both Production and Industrial Tech increased to 3

Reduced diplomacy percentages per chit from 5 to 3 for minors, 10 to 6 for majors

Turned off Burmese anti-Japanese partisans, for now (anti-Allied supply scripts remain)

Bombay blockade hexes added

=======================
To do for next update
=======================

Burma partisans readded but progressively delayed

Add an IJA allied Burmese garrison or 2 via events

Add more blockade hexes (you can still do it yourself w/o the scripts to help you, tho it is slower only -1 per turn)

Victory conditions popup at start

New text warnings for the ! key

Redundant Lend Lease line running from US-UK-India if Australia is in trouble (needs dummy DE's)
Got it running smoothly. Anticipating the next patch.
Like the newest update. 😎
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Beriand
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Re: War in the Pacific Release thread

Post by Beriand »

Nice, thanks, will try this out for sure :)
And repeating in void previous offer, if there is anyone interested in PBEM, I would gladly play. I have lots of experience with SC series multiplayer, but none in this much-changing mod, so would prefer to take Allies side against some good opponent, but in other cases could also try run Japanese offensives.
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