BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac

[PzB74]

Really, they got 2 points of armor in Iron Man [X(]
Wonder what effect that has...

I think Allied armor will only play a major role in a very few theaters because of the rugged terrain.
Yes, flak upgrade helps a little but it's not a decisive factor in 42. In 44 it will be something else...
But I now have a most cunning plan, secret for now until I can test it [;)]

Not much to report in the last game; tried to drop some paras into Corunna Downs but an Oz regiment suddenly appeared.
Another 7-10 days and there may not be anymore Jap bases in Northern Oz.

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Well, whaddya know! It is only in IRONMAN

- I got some Nicks trained in low ground but it's simply not worth the hassle of trying to get them all killed for very few returns.
Allied fighters are now becoming way to numerous and dangerous.

Naah, against LRCAP it is wastage, but when armorfist will travel too far [:D]

Not so sure if AA upgrades mean that much anymore; proper radar is more important IMO!

They rearm from 1.1 inch into Bofors.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: PzB

This is what often happens: (Example from my other game)

A wing of Helen's launch against Nadi; this time fighters from 3 nearby bases joined in.
- I did set the Nicks to 12k feet, also thought the Tojo's were at 15k feet.
To top it all 13 Zero's on CAP duty at 30k feet tries to escort, gets separated and performs a "false" sweep instead!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Nadi , at 131,160
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 30,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 30000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Nadi , at 131,160
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 24
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 19
Ki-49-Ia Helen x 25

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 13

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-49-Ia Helen bombing from 12000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok just a few questions to get a better picture:

What were the percentage settings for this Zero squad and the other mentioned fighter squads? (CAP/Train/Rest)
Was the Zero squad land based or naval based?
Were other means of improving coordination given? Like fighter bases closer to the target than the bomber bases, same HQ?
For the mentioned 'fighters from 3 bases': Where there other bombers set to the altitude of these fighters (attacking the same or a different target)?

The last question is probably the most important. Up to now, if the air settings are "clean" (e.g. no alt overlapping) I cannot remember a fighter squad ever escorting
"the wrong" bomber formation when you set altitude as coordination signal.
So if you got two bomber squads attacking different targets, one, say, at 15k and the other at 12k, and assign fighter squads to escort, also one at 15k and the other at 12k,
I never noticed anything like the 15k squad escorting the 12k bombers and vice versa.

For this reason I am asking the other questions, because for example Mission: escort CAP30/Train0/Rest0 means: Please reserve 70% of the available fighters to escort duty
and escort anything in the area that looks like it needs escorts.
If there are no other duties for that squad the fighters probably choose the mission that best resembles their mission profile and this is about any strike in the remote area.

Is the above understandable? Altitude coordination enables you to discern between different strikes to escort. Noone said it prevents escorts if theres nothing else to do.
To accomplish that you have other means.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: PzB

Really, they got 2 points of armor in Iron Man [X(]
Wonder what effect that has...

Probably just typo [:)]

Yes, flak upgrade helps a little but it's not a decisive factor in 42.

Who knows. Maybe 1.1 inch is as crappy, as Japan 25mm [;)]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Ok just a few questions to get a better picture:

What were the percentage settings for this Zero squad and the other mentioned fighter squads? (CAP/Train/Rest)
Was the Zero squad land based or naval based?
Were other means of improving coordination given? Like fighter bases closer to the target than the bomber bases, same HQ?
For the mentioned 'fighters from 3 bases': Where there other bombers set to the altitude of these fighters (attacking the same or a different target)?

The last question is probably the most important. Up to now, if the air settings are "clean" (e.g. no alt overlapping) I cannot remember a fighter squad ever escorting
"the wrong" bomber formation when you set altitude as coordination signal.
So if you got two bomber squads attacking different targets, one, say, at 15k and the other at 12k, and assign fighter squads to escort, also one at 15k and the other at 12k,
I never noticed anything like the 15k squad escorting the 12k bombers and vice versa.

For this reason I am asking the other questions, because for example Mission: escort CAP30/Train0/Rest0 means: Please reserve 70% of the available fighters to escort duty
and escort anything in the area that looks like it needs escorts.
If there are no other duties for that squad the fighters probably choose the mission that best resembles their mission profile and this is about any strike in the remote area.

Is the above understandable? Altitude coordination enables you to discern between different strikes to escort. Noone said it prevents escorts if theres nothing else to do. To accomplish that you have other means.

LoBaron, am I understanding this correctly? Let's say you have 4 bases in close proximity, one contains the bombers, the other various fighters. If the bombers are set to 12k and the fighters are all set to escort with a 30 CAP/0/0 makeup at 10k, 12k and 15k that all three have a chance to escort the bombers to the target? Do you have to manually set the target hex for the escorts or should you leave it to commanders discretion? In my experience the bombers and fighters set to 12k will coordinate, the other fighters will "sweep" or "lose contact" with the bombers. I'm really trying to wrap my head around this! [&:]

[PzB74]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 16, 43

Sub-ASW Attacks

ASW attack near Lahaina at 196,98

Japanese Ships
SS I-166, hits 5

Allied Ships
xAK Whangpu
xAK Margaret Fuller
xAK James M. Goodhue
xAK Christopher Greenup
SC-641
SC-638

SS I-166 is sighted by escort
I-166 diving deep ....
SC-641 attacking submerged sub ....
SC-638 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC-641 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC-638 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC-641 fails to find sub and abandons search
SC-638 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC-638 attacking submerged sub ....
SC-638 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC-638 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Afternoon Air attack on 146th Infantry Regimental Combat Team, at 75,124

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 3

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 3 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet *
Ground Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
85th Sentai/A with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Andy is still very low in supplies in Northern Oz, that's why we're not pulling out everything asap.

Ground combat at Nookanbah (66,130)
Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 498 troops, 0 guns, 89 vehicles, Assault Value = 35
Defending force 337 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 16

Allied adjusted assault: 3
Japanese adjusted defense: 16

Allied assault odds: 1 to 5 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
10th Light Horse Battalion

Defending units:
4th Indpt SNLF Coy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Strike Coordination

Ok here you see what happens: I have Betties and Zero's at Tanna flying secondary airfield attack missions against Nadi to suppress the isolated
airfields there. The bombers are set to 12k feet and have numerous escorts at Tanna and an island just south of there; all set to escort and 12k feet.

The big problem: At Tongatapu I also have Betty bombers set to naval attack 15k feet as well as Zero's ordered to 40% CAP and escort at 15k feet.
These Zero's constantly escorts my Nadi strikes from Tanna despite the altitude difference.

Last turn numerous Betties got slaughtered attacking shipping at Wallis Island because that many Zero's were absent and those remaining had very high fatigue levels
after numerous escort trips to Nadi [:o]

This is an impossible thing to solve; either I have to stand down my Nadi missions or I have to cut back on naval bomber range to less than fighter escort range to Nadi.

[PzB74]

This is Nicks set at 40% CAP at 15k feet escorting Helen's bombarding Nadi at 12k feet.
Happens time and again; the fighter actually do coordinate with the bomber strikes despite the altitude difference.
IMO this confirms but my and CT's experiences and the consequences can be serious if carrier fleets are involved; then you can get abnormal results were 150 Zero's escort s 9 bomber
strike against a barge convoy....and in the process weakening KB CAP in addition to revealing KBs presence.

Setting KB CAP to more than 40-50% would raise fatigue sky high and seriously reduce the escorts available for a potential full size strike against an enemy fleet.
Major poodoo can and will happen I'm afaid!

[castor troy]

unfortunately that´s how it is and you can´t do anything in the game about it. Well, you can stand down everything, shorten range or set Cap to 100%. All not really an option for a carrier TF that is awaiting an engagement I think. Makes it really hard to operate carriers in the SRA for example with all the bases nearby, works better deep down in the Pacific where no base is around perhaps. As it is now, it´s creating pretty silly (sorry but that´s what it is) results. How strikes looked like in WITP wasn´t realistic, but what it is now, it is not realistic AND creates gameplay problematics as the player just completely is in the hands of a flawed system (my opponent just recently paid for it - not his fault but he paid for it - while his Zekes didn´t escort an LBA strike but 9 Jills... 200 Zekes for 9 Jills). Really weird when carriers come into play with LBA, also weird when I see "coordination" from complete different directions all the time with different ranges to the target but escorts fail when coming from the same base. Sorry, but it IS off.

[witpqs]

When you set a fighter group on Escort you can give it a target.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

When you set a fighter group on Escort you can give it a target.

I know, but it doesn´t help you when you got anything in the area that is supposed to fly a nav strike because you a) can not assign ANY fighters to escort a nav strike and b) you also can´t tell your carrier based fighters to escort carrier based strikes only. These two things are the main problem, having these strange escort missions from ten different directions with ten different ranges is weird, but not as much of a problem as point a and b IMO.

[beppi]

In the thread LoBaron linked the devs never stated that alt forces anything to escort anyone. It just increases the chance and this chance is not known. So i stick with the urban myth that alt saves the day in this case.

Has anyone tried the approach with same Hqs for the squads, might work or might not work as like the alt in just fiddles with the chances. As i remember it does not really help but might be worth an other try.

I doubt that the escort model in the current code is that fine implemented that you really can influence strikes on the level you sometimes need it. There is no way to coordinate the strikes in an acceptable way as everything just changes chances.

An sticking to Murphy´s law, the dice will always roll wrong when you need it the most so chances always suck.

[janh]

Alternatively it sounds like a good idea if you could assign specific fighter sqrns to escort specific bomber sqrns -- yet there is one problem: If you had a large strike with numbers bomber sqrn, and assigned the fighters to the first, Murphy's law dictates that this would be the one to cancel its mission or fail to find the target, with the fighters following suit and the remaining bombers arriving without cover.  Perhaps that was why the devs chose to implement the escorts the way they are. It works most of the time, but yes, when involving CV-air it shows its flaws.

The ideal way would probably be setting up air strikes the way you organize a TF:  choose a mission, select units, mission parameters etc.  But that would add to micromanagement as well.

[castor troy]

the only thing that worked FOR ME in my head to head tests was modding replacement pilots to 70 exp and fill up the squadrons with these pilots. This was the only thing when I thought to noticing something changing but it also wasn´t like day and night. Now experience isn´t a factor at all according to michaelms post. I wouldn´t spend all my pp to change squadrons all the time because you are going to end up doing this a lot as you have them changing base and if there is any effect IMO you won´t notice it. And it does not change the fact that - coordination or not - it won´t prevent the routine from doing silly escort attempts. Coordination FOR ME is coordination from the same base, not cramping together aircraft from bases being 450 miles apart and in a complete different direction. It´s not like B-29 launching at Guam and P-51 meeting them over Iwo Jima. It´s like bombers launching at Port Moresby and the game launches fighters at Lunga to escort the bombers to attack Rabaul while the fighters at Port Moresby are likely to fail doing this.

[LoBaron]

PzB you got quite a complex and crowded airspace there, but I see what you mean.

A first observation: I get the impression you have quite a dense enviroment and are only
using 2 alt settings (12 and 15k) to discern. That may be not enough for this situation.

This is not only because it adds a large random factor in the equatation, but because the less altitude separation
you include in your strike planning the less telling the results are from an analysis perspective.

The next thing is the use of primary/secondary missions.
It is very useful in case you only got one bomber squadron and have to cover a variety of situations, though
if you got many different tasks for a large number of squadrons its better to specialize.

As I said, altitude coordination doesn´t exclude, it just increases or decreases chances of coordination, and this is usually
enough to provide the intended escorts for the specific strikes.

When a raid is "planned" by the game engine a squadron (with random rolls and such things as commanders leadership rating) is chosen as the lead.
Then the engine looks for potential squads to coordinate with this raid, which usually are other bomber
squads with the same target - or no target - set, available and adds them. It also looks for free escorts
for the raid and adds them. If there are fighter squads with mission "escort" and no other mission, they get a chance
to join up. Different altitude reduces this probability for coordination, but it does not exclude the escorts from the raid
per default.

Now the disadvantage of secondary missions come into play: A fighter squad has no secondary target. It only has a primary
mission: escort. In the worst case you get more than one successful dice roll for escort duties per day, escorting naval
strikes and attack against land based targets.
You CAN perform this without grave fatigue loss, but then you have to use the "rest" setting to insure that only part of the
planes get assigned on a specific mission, so theres still fresh pilots available in case there is a second raid which
makes the Zeros join up.


Re: Your first example, Betty/Zero strike on Nadi

Comparing the squadron screens with the combat replay screen this raises one question:

The attack on Nadi consisted of 68 Betty and 32 Zero escorts, but the screens show a 12 Plane Zero unit at Tongatapu and
a 35/2 plane Betty unit at Tanna.
Is it possible that the Betty unit stationed at Tongatapu also has airfield attack as secondary? (either with or without target set)
This would make the explanation very easy, as the Zeros are not escorting the Tanna but the Tongatapu part of the strike.

If this is not the case I would need more information, mostly about all other squadrons on that area. It is really diffictult otherwise
to get a complete picture of the situation.


Re: Your second example:

This is very easy. Here you probably have most reqiurements fullfilled for a coordinated escort by the Nick squad except altitude.
As already said, altitude is a governing factor to discern between different strikes in the same timeframe, not neccesarily
something you can use to exclude a fighter squad from participating in a raid if there is nothing else to do in that timeframe.
For the 60% Nicks waiting at ready to escort whatever raid may materialise, there is no other mission except exactly this raid.
You have two options to prevent them from escorting: reduce their range to 1, or set the mission percentages to 40/0/60.

Last remark: There IS a random factor in all this, except if you deliberately prevent squads from reaching a specific target by either
range or mission settings. What you have to do is decrease/increase those chances. The more complex an area is in the air, the more specific
your different settings have to be to maximise the chances for the air war to happen exactly as you intend to.
If you don´t do this you get a high ammount of random clutter which sometimes works and sometimes not.


I know that I am not able to provide a complete explanation, because for this I´d have to see the save, but I hope this helps a bit.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Ok just a few questions to get a better picture:

What were the percentage settings for this Zero squad and the other mentioned fighter squads? (CAP/Train/Rest)
Was the Zero squad land based or naval based?
Were other means of improving coordination given? Like fighter bases closer to the target than the bomber bases, same HQ?
For the mentioned 'fighters from 3 bases': Where there other bombers set to the altitude of these fighters (attacking the same or a different target)?

The last question is probably the most important. Up to now, if the air settings are "clean" (e.g. no alt overlapping) I cannot remember a fighter squad ever escorting
"the wrong" bomber formation when you set altitude as coordination signal.
So if you got two bomber squads attacking different targets, one, say, at 15k and the other at 12k, and assign fighter squads to escort, also one at 15k and the other at 12k,
I never noticed anything like the 15k squad escorting the 12k bombers and vice versa.

For this reason I am asking the other questions, because for example Mission: escort CAP30/Train0/Rest0 means: Please reserve 70% of the available fighters to escort duty
and escort anything in the area that looks like it needs escorts.
If there are no other duties for that squad the fighters probably choose the mission that best resembles their mission profile and this is about any strike in the remote area.

Is the above understandable? Altitude coordination enables you to discern between different strikes to escort. Noone said it prevents escorts if theres nothing else to do. To accomplish that you have other means.

LoBaron, am I understanding this correctly? Let's say you have 4 bases in close proximity, one contains the bombers, the other various fighters. If the bombers are set to 12k and the fighters are all set to escort with a 30 CAP/0/0 makeup at 10k, 12k and 15k that all three have a chance to escort the bombers to the target? Do you have to manually set the target hex for the escorts or should you leave it to commanders discretion? In my experience the bombers and fighters set to 12k will coordinate, the other fighters will "sweep" or "lose contact" with the bombers. I'm really trying to wrap my head around this! [&:]

In your example you have a very high chance for the 12k fighter squadron to perform a coordinated mission with the bombers, and a reduced
chance for the other fighter squads, which could either escort despite the different altitude settings (in case there are no other raids to escort at their set altitude),
have an increased chance to lose cohesion on escort and as a result either perform a sweep over target or RTB, or not launch at all. The most likely result for those
other squads depends on the additional factors present with an influence on coordination.

Whether you set a target for the escorts or not is only an additional exclusion tool. In case you got two or more targets and want to maximise chances of specific squadrons
escorting specific strikes to specific targets it helps a lot because it prevents fighters from escorting strikes other than their own target.
The disadvantage naturally is that it prevents you from a primary/secondary mission profile because they would not escort a naval strike to another hex than
the one that is set for them.

[inqistor]

I am not sure, I grasp the topic of this discussion. In WITP fighters could escort strike from other base, if they were closer to target. All your examples seems to be exactly this exact thing happening. So obviously most code works as in WITP.
Yes, escort from CV seems strange, but it keeps to rules of fighters-closer-to-target.
Now, I see AI have problem with judging the threat level, and sending appropriate number of escorts. Was it the same in WITP?

[Captain Cruft]

I don't mind how this works.

The fact that things are hard to control is (IMO) an essential part of the game design. Otherwise it would be too easy to construct an aerial sledgehammer that is impossible to stop. It also means that to gain more control over events you have to "do one thing at a time" in each area, which slows things down.

[PzB74]

Sometimes fighters and bombers with long range operating 30 hexes apart makes it difficult to perform more than 1 mission type at the time; Ground bombing or naval attack.
The Tangatavu air groups have been set to naval attack only; it's the Tanna airgroups that have switched to alternative targets as the US carrier threat has been defeated LoBaron.

I'm not going to spend lots of time on this subjects; From my point of view this is one of the areas that could need some more attention.
Don't expect a complete ABC for how to launch and coordinate strikes but maybe a switch to prevent CAG escort LBA or a max limit of escorts per bomber to limit excesses.
150 Zekes escorting 9 LBA Jills to attack barges while the KB is left almost defenseless is beyond the human FUBAR factor.
- The rest we have to...abstract [:'(]

On with the war! A little snack for you this time as we launch another surprise attack with the KB [&o]

I've been watching enemy buildup at Noumea, number of TFs and ships had grown huge so the dogs of war were dispatched once again.
(Uber long range recon from Lunga has reconned Noumea for months).

I made a mistake and forgot to pick up a heavy escort for the KB at Rabaul - in this process I also forgot to add new air admirals.
The fact that we had spotted lots of enemy shipping persuaded me not to wait for the escorts so the KB was divided into 2 large Car Divs and ordered at full speed to
close within 8 hexes of Noumea at the northern tip of New Caledonia.

The rest you can read below...


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 17, 43

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on 10th Light Horse Battalion, at 66,130 (Nookanbah)
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 15
B-24D1 Liberator x 18
B-26B Marauder x 6
P-38H Lightning x 17

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Merauke , at 89,124

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 18
B-24D1 Liberator x 15

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 7
Runway hits 20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Belep Islands at 111,153
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 106

Allied aircraft
TBF-1 Avenger x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
Yamada Det S-2 with A6M5 Zero (1 airborne, 2 on standby, 28 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 30000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 30000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M5 Zero (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M5 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
Junyo-1 with A6M5 Zero (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
Taiho-1 with A6M5 Zero (5 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 255th Armoured Brigade, at 58,130
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M3 Nell x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x G3M3 Nell bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Noumea at 115,160
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 56
D4Y1 Judy x 26

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 5
P-39D Airacobra x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAK Langkoeas, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
xAK Marpessa, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAP Aquitania, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Wagga
xAK Nora Moller, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 224 (193 destroyed, 31 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
11 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
15 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
11 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
8 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
12 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
51st FG/25th FS with P-38H Lightning (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
347th FG/339th FS with P-39D Airacobra (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Langkoeas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 255th Armoured Brigade, at 58,130
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Belep Islands at 111,153
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 104

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 19
TBF-1 Avenger x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 4 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 4 destroyed

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Strike on Noumea

So we caught Andy in the process of invading Efate..Andy actually got lucky; the invasion convoy was 9!! hexes away from KB, 1 hex to far for it to launch strikes.
We did get loaded troop and cargo ships at Noumea though, looks like a large armored unit was aboard the giant passenger liner.

We did however take a risk; Noumea is now a size 6 AF and 90 fighters and 30+ bombers were reported there.
With a light KB escort we thus were potentially vulnerable but I decided that speed and surprise would reduce risks and that Andy didn't keep to much of a LBA force in a backwater area.

I now expect Andy to curse and do his outmost to a) reinforce Noumea with more LBA b) get his invasion TF the heck out of Dodge.
But will he run in the right direction [:D]
- 3 options; back to Noumea, continue to Efate (not likely), due south or towards Fiji at full speed (most likely).

Time to kick arse and chew bubblegum again [8D]

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: PzB

Sometimes fighters and bombers with long range operating 30 hexes apart makes it difficult to perform more than 1 mission type at the time; Ground bombing or naval attack.
The Tangatavu air groups have been set to naval attack only; it's the Tanna airgroups that have switched to alternative targets as the US carrier threat has been defeated LoBaron.

Point taken. Although I sometimes doubt that people who have real issues with coordination are aware that the coordination factors can be used in a positive and negative way.
Every sentence about what improves chances for coordination contains the same information about how to prevent it.

Anyway, I have the main air combat still way before me as my PBEM is still far from an attrition battle from the US side and so rely mainly on what I see on
Robs against Mike fighting the Burmese air war, and from the AI and small scens I played before since the release of AE. I will sure analyse some of the air
battles from my side when the situation occurs in our AAR.

[PzB74]

Indeed, lots to learn and only continued testing and trying will make AE give up all its secrets [:)]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: PzB

Indeed, lots to learn and only continued testing and trying will make AE give up all its secrets [:)]

You don't need to learn any more of those secrets. You are a very dangerous opponent! [&o]