COTA.....wow

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It's a very good game, and trolls like ravinhood can't change that...

I see your posting style hasnt changed.

[Harry Flashman]

Just wanted to say that its a great game...and quite different from what I'm used to. I was not planning to buy it because there was no demo (seems to be a problem with a lot of wargames) BUT I picked it up based on the 5 minute video preview and have been loving it ever since.

That preview was a really great idea. Screenshots and review blurbs only go so far.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
COTA = Conquest of the Aegean?

Yup

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
I've downloaded and watched video files. So it's RTS and smallest piece of unit is company, right?

Almost - there's platoons too for things like mortar, AT, even the occasional tank platoon - it depends on the historical data - if that ANZAC brigade had 3 Valentines at Crete, they'll get a platoon of 3 Valentines.

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
And that's in Mediterra...something, right? Are there available any scenarios from other fronts with relevant unit information?

COTA = The 1941 Axis campaign in the Med..something - encompassing Greek, Crete and what-if Malta scenarios
HTTR = Highway to the Reich = the older sister, very much alike - encompassing the 1944 Market-Garden campaign (You know : Arnhem, Bridge too Far, that sort of stuff)

Currently Panther Games is working on a Bulge setting for their game - Arjuna regularly posts updates over here :
tt.asp?forumid=414

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[ravinhood]

[Appendix B

The far future ... not only will future games be non-hex based and PCT they'll almost certainly be online as well. In that case you will be unable to tell whether you are playing a computer or a human. Even if you have chat turned on. ]

Did you happen to notice in the Star Wars episode where Chewy was playing a computer game with R2D2 that while the actual pieces were animated as in "real like" the game was "TURN BASED" haha Yeah boy the far future is gonna get rid of turn based. NOT! lol

You guys can play those kiddie clickfests if yah want to. I'm not going to waste my time or money on them. I don't like them, never did, never will. Only RTS games I'll ever like are solo single player where there is only one character/unit to have to deal with in real time for THAT is the ONLY thing that is CLOSE to the REALISM of these RTS games to include these PRT or PCT that Arjuna continues to try to convince ME that they are something special when to ME they are NOT! (why keep trying Arjuna?haha)....when you have more than one unit to move it's RTS kiddie clickfest. Same for CC series. If it aint got built in predetermined stoppage or at least a built in let the player input the time stoppage mode then it SUKS and is a kiddie clickfest game (to me)! And that's the truth PFFFFTTP! ~

[JudgeDread-HEAD] said this:
The one problem I have with Ravinhood (and, again to be fair, anyone else who slags off a game) is slagging a game off that they do not have...they don't have a right to do it and should not. If you want to blast COTA's system, then at the very least have the courtesy to buy it, try it first hand...then if it sucks, by all means, post so...but don't slag a game off (or indeed a new method) just because it's not the normal way you play! }

Seems I have to tell you hardheads every time someone writes this above crap like Dreadhead. I don't have to own anything to review a game. I get to play nearly every game that is released that I want to. So, I certainly can give opinion on COTA....BTW ignorant Dreadhead I DO OWN HTTR, played it ONCE and poof it's off my hard-drive, what a poc game. (to me) So deal with it... I'm not here to make you happy with games you like I should like, that's pretty obdurate of YOU.

BTW I thought you said you were "never going to post here anymore"....cause you got mad cause one of the threads you were fired up in about "government" (as you've brought up again in THIS thread) got locked. Doesn't seem like you can leave government out or realize everyone else's opinion has just as much weight as yours does. You don't hold any offices or nobel peace prizes that I'm aware of. lol

[Terl]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

....when you have more than one unit to move it's RTS kiddie clickfest. Same for CC series. If it aint got built in predetermined stoppage or at least a built in let the player input the time stoppage mode then it SUKS and is a kiddie clickfest game (to me)! And that's the truth PFFFFTTP! ~

So far from the truth ravinhood, so far from the truth. It is not a clickfest at all. I love being able to give orders to my battalion commanders and have them "command" their subordinate units. If I, as the commander, want to go down and take over for a subordinate I can. I still enjoy my hex games and always will, but, with these games, your assumptions are way off. I do not really care for RTS either(especially all that resource gathering and such); but, I purchased HTTR recently and it is not what you would think and certainly not like your assertions above. I can hardly wait to buy CotA too.

[jvgfanatic]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

[Appendix B

The far future ... not only will future games be non-hex based and PCT they'll almost certainly be online as well. In that case you will be unable to tell whether you are playing a computer or a human. Even if you have chat turned on. ]

Did you happen to notice in the Star Wars episode where Chewy was playing a computer game with R2D2 that while the actual pieces were animated as in "real like" the game was "TURN BASED" haha Yeah boy the far future is gonna get rid of turn based. NOT! lol

You guys can play those kiddie clickfests if yah want to. I'm not going to waste my time or money on them. I don't like them, never did, never will. Only RTS games I'll ever like are solo single player where there is only one character/unit to have to deal with in real time for THAT is the ONLY thing that is CLOSE to the REALISM of these RTS games to include these PRT or PCT that Arjuna continues to try to convince ME that they are something special when to ME they are NOT! (why keep trying Arjuna?haha)....when you have more than one unit to move it's RTS kiddie clickfest. Same for CC series. If it aint got built in predetermined stoppage or at least a built in let the player input the time stoppage mode then it SUKS and is a kiddie clickfest game (to me)! And that's the truth PFFFFTTP! ~

[JudgeDread-HEAD] said this:
The one problem I have with Ravinhood (and, again to be fair, anyone else who slags off a game) is slagging a game off that they do not have...they don't have a right to do it and should not. If you want to blast COTA's system, then at the very least have the courtesy to buy it, try it first hand...then if it sucks, by all means, post so...but don't slag a game off (or indeed a new method) just because it's not the normal way you play! }

Seems I have to tell you hardheads every time someone writes this above crap like Dreadhead. I don't have to own anything to review a game. I get to play nearly every game that is released that I want to. So, I certainly can give opinion on COTA....BTW ignorant Dreadhead I DO OWN HTTR, played it ONCE and poof it's off my hard-drive, what a poc game. (to me) So deal with it... I'm not here to make you happy with games you like I should like, that's pretty obdurate of YOU.

BTW I thought you said you were "never going to post here anymore"....cause you got mad cause one of the threads you were fired up in about "government" (as you've brought up again in THIS thread) got locked. Doesn't seem like you can leave government out or realize everyone else's opinion has just as much weight as yours does. You don't hold any offices or nobel peace prizes that I'm aware of. lol

Name calling, irresistable urge to piss on someone else's parade, high-handed and all consuming opinion without subjectivity. What more could we ask for? Oh the memories of 7th grade...welcome to gamefaqs.com!

[Kuokkanen]

But a computer doesn't need a grid to see where a unit is, it can know exactly where it is, down to cm if needed. A computer can know how much ground a unit covers, which way it is facing, what formation it is in. Most importantly a computer can show all that information to a player quickly and in a format which is visually easy to comprehend. Wait! the computer has only just got started. Besides this it can work the exact distance between units, even between individual weapons within units, know which way a unit can move and a computer can do away with ZOC by actually calculating the fire effects that neighboring units have on each other. That's only scratching the surface.

Some good points and there already are number of games which has some of that stuff: Total War serie comes to mind. There are also some very realistic games without hexes and I remember reading review of one but I don't remember game's name. I remember reading there aren't hexes, it might be real time, every rifle and every bullet is calculated and game is very realistic but not very user friendly. D'oh, I don't even remember year!

The arrival of wargames played on computers should have removed the need for hexes, but they're still going strong. I suspect it's because there's a lot of experience, and data, on designng hex-based games and that experience, and data, has simply shifted from paper maps to computer maps.

I believe that it's also easier for players to understand hexes: it's much simplier to see that given target is 500 meters (10 hexes in SPWAW) away than guess without hexes is it 500, 450 or 550 meters. Just one example here.

The few non-hex based games on computer I've seen before mostly sucked. The one that didn't was Harpoon.

Does Total War, Combat Mission and Close Combat belong along those which suck?

A game can be non-hex based and still be 'turn' oriented.

There are wargames like that without computers, like Warhammers (Fantasy Battles & 40k). Also some other games with hex roots have grown out of it. Classic BattleTech comes to mind. Anyways many players prefer hexes becouse it makes game easier to understand, on and off computers.

It could also be real-time and hex-based - but what would be the point in that?

Titans of Steel can be counted among those ones. Points: every action takes time, and when given action is complete in given time (move to hex) or more possible actions presents itself (enemy shows up), game is paused and waits action from player. Some even like it.

For a non-hex based game with 'turns' the process would work as follows: you would plot your actions for the next resolution period (= turn) whether it's a day or a week or a month. Your human or AI opponent does the same. When you both are ready a computer, could be yours or your opponents or a central server, resolves the plot. The resolving computer would not use the normal sequence of play we're all familiar with. Instead the computer will actually run a simulation of the units moving, firing, construction, demolition, servicing etc and record the results. Then you and your opponent receive the results and review what went on during the resolution. Based on the current information you'll make your new plot etc. The only difference between this and PCT is the P part. Pauses will be at fixed intervals, not as needed by the player.

Combat Mission serie works much like that. Your descriptions fits also for VGA Planets and Stars! (never played these 2).

COTA = The 1941 Axis campaign in the Med..something - encompassing Greek, Crete and what-if Malta scenarios
HTTR = Highway to the Reich = the older sister, very much alike - encompassing the 1944 Market-Garden campaign (You know : Arnhem, Bridge too Far, that sort of stuff)

So nobody has modded COTA/HTTR yet to include maps and stuff from elsewhere? Is it even possible?

Did you happen to notice in the Star Wars episode where Chewy was playing a computer game with R2D2 that while the actual pieces were animated as in "real like" the game was "TURN BASED" haha Yeah boy the far future is gonna get rid of turn based. NOT! lol

Did YOU notice this at beginning of movie:

A long time ago

and so on [:'(]

I do not really care for RTS either(especially all that resource gathering and such)

Resource gathering? Does CC and COTA/HTTR have that too?

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
There are also some very realistic games without hexes and I remember reading review of one but I don't remember game's name. I remember reading there aren't hexes, it might be real time, every rifle and every bullet is calculated and game is very realistic but not very user friendly. D'oh, I don't even remember year!

Sounds like the ATF engine from ProSimco - games like Raging Tiger, The Star and the Crescent are based upon that engine. A bit similar as the Panther Games engine, but on a strictly tactical scale and with a bit less friendly UI.

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

COTA = The 1941 Axis campaign in the Med..something - encompassing Greek, Crete and what-if Malta scenarios
HTTR = Highway to the Reich = the older sister, very much alike - encompassing the 1944 Market-Garden campaign (You know : Arnhem, Bridge too Far, that sort of stuff)

So nobody has modded COTA/HTTR yet to include maps and stuff from elsewhere? Is it even possible?

Of course, COTA/HTTR come with the same map and scenario editor Panther Games are using. In fact all the maps and scenarios for the upcoming Bulge game are being created using the map and scenario editor of COTA.

There are a couple of fine user created mods for HTTR as well as COTA - JudgeDread who is also posting in this thread has made a really good Cyprus what-if one - took me a a couple of tries to crack it [8D]

Just visit the forum for the links.

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
Resource gathering? Does CC and COTA/HTTR have that too?

Nope, in COTA and HTTR you're the corps commander, not the kitchen feldwebel scrounging around for potatoes [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

COTA = The 1941 Axis campaign in the Med..something - encompassing Greek, Crete and what-if Malta scenarios
HTTR = Highway to the Reich = the older sister, very much alike - encompassing the 1944 Market-Garden campaign (You know : Arnhem, Bridge too Far, that sort of stuff)

So nobody has modded COTA/HTTR yet to include maps and stuff from elsewhere? Is it even possible?

Of course, COTA/HTTR come with the same map and scenario editor Panther Games are using. In fact all the maps and scenarios for the upcoming Bulge game are being created using the map and scenario editor of COTA.

There are a couple of fine user created mods for HTTR as well as COTA

Anything on Finland front?

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
Resource gathering? Does CC and COTA/HTTR have that too?

Nope, in COTA and HTTR you're the corps commander, not the kitchen feldwebel scrounging around for potatoes [;)]

I really don't get it what that mean... can troops starve to death or not?

[JudgeDredd]

Did you happen to notice in the Star Wars episode where Chewy was playing a computer game with R2D2 that while the actual pieces were animated as in "real like" the game was "TURN BASED" haha Yeah boy the far future is gonna get rid of turn based. NOT! lol

Are you really, actually saying the future of gaming is turned based purely based on a 1977 sci-fi, fictional film? OMG!

Ravinhood, every time you post, you belittle yourself further...everytime I read one of your posts, you seem younger. I have no idea now what age you are. Carry on with your name calling...it kind of doesn't hurt me.

As for this

BTW I thought you said you were "never going to post here anymore"

It's none of your business why I decided to post again and I can post where and when I like. Use the little green button.

As for mentioning Government in this thread, it was not an opinionated post about a particular party, rather I suggesting I never understood why someone would vote for one party over another just because "that's always been so"...if that's against the rules of the forum, then I'll apologise to the forum owners...not you.

As I said in my previous post anyway, I have an open mind to game method. I have no need to apologise for that as I get to play more good games than you do. You close the door on a particular genre if you wish. I don't care...it's your loss.

And if you DID own HTTR, then you would know that it is not a clickfest. So you are either lying, blind, or have no idea how to play the game.

[Terminus]

Wow, that's stupid, even for you, ravinhood...

[kilowatts]

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Does Total War, Combat Mission and Close Combat belong along those which suck?

I have to admit to not having tried those games. The screenshots for Close Combat look pretty good but I was looking for a something at a higher level so I bought Conquest.

Mike

[JudgeDredd]

Well I hope you enjoy it kilowatts. It's a good system, well implemented with good AI

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

So nobody has modded COTA/HTTR yet to include maps and stuff from elsewhere? Is it even possible?

Of course, COTA/HTTR come with the same map and scenario editor Panther Games are using. In fact all the maps and scenarios for the upcoming Bulge game are being created using the map and scenario editor of COTA.

There are a couple of fine user created mods for HTTR as well as COTA

Anything on Finland front?

Not yet - the one thing that is not freely available to all gamers is the OOB editor (or the "Estab" in Panther parlance) - so while you can make any map/scenario you want, it is limited to the troops/equipment provided in the game. As no game has been set in the East Front (it's planned though) you don't have Russian equipment in the game yet.

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
Resource gathering? Does CC and COTA/HTTR have that too?

Nope, in COTA and HTTR you're the corps commander, not the kitchen feldwebel scrounging around for potatoes [;)]

I really don't get it what that mean... can troops starve to death or not?

I meant that there's no resource gathering like in a "typical" RTS game, no factories spewing out Panzers and no barracks "producing" soldiers. What COTA does have is a supply system where it keeps track of basic & ammo a unit has and the line(s) of supply of that unit back to the supply dump. A WWII battalion had about 48 hours worth of supply on hand and in COTA you'll notice that getting cut-off for a day or so isn't a disaster, but after 2 days when your units are out of beans & bullets they're all ready to surrender.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
<snip>

He man, don't make it too obvious. I know Panther Games hired you to act like the local lunatic so by the power of reverse psychology normal people would start to think "he, there must be something awfully good about this game if the ranters & ravers say it's bs" - but you're overdoing it a bit to have maximum effect.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
......when you have more than one unit to move it's RTS kiddie clickfest. Same for CC series....

You have no idea what you are talking about.




-

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
<snip>

He man, don't make it too obvious. I know Panther Games hired you to act like the local lunatic so by the power of reverse psychology normal people would start to think "he, there must be something awfully good about this game if the ranters & ravers say it's bs" - but you're overdoing it a bit to have maximum effect.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Ooooh, it's all a marketing conspiracy...[:D]

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL:  ravinhood
You guys can play those kiddie clickfests if yah want to.

We do.  Although no doubt you have already noticed the universal view (yourself excluded, obviously) that they are not not 'kiddie clickfests'.  To anyone who has actually played CC (let alone CotA!) for more than two minutes the idea that they are is patently absurd.

Let me explain why, although God only knows why I'm bothering.  In games that are 'kiddie clickfests' (without making any universal judgment; I actually enjoyed a few, particularly Starcraft) they merit that description because being faster on the mouse and shortcuts than your opponent, assuming both have a reasonable familiarity with the necessary strategy, is the way to win.  In HttR/CotA and CC it is a total irrelevance how quick you can click, assuming you are physically capable of using a mouse or similar input device.  In CC particularly what is relevant, and what provides a large part of the challenge, is that while you do not have to click quickly you do have to think reasonably quickly, and think well.   Rather than go on about there being no 'turns' and such in the real world, I'll stay closer to your way of thinking with an example I have used before but that is well worthy of repeating - chess.  Chess is a (and to many, 'the') turn based game if you look at the mechanics.   But in practice is is played against the clock, and intense thought is continuous by both players throughout.  No, it doesn't matter how quickly you physically move the pieces except on rare occasions (it can happen) but, believe it or not, the actual thought processes in playing competition chess have far more in common with a CC game than they do a leisurely TAOW PBEM.

[IronDuke_slith]

I don't see why both methods can't cut it.

I prefer PBEM and always have because no matter how good, an AI is an AI. There's part of me that would rather trash a poor human than a good AI [;)]. However, I have purchased all three AA games and enjoy the change of style. They can sometimes be fairly quiet, in so much as you set things up and then wait, sometimes with little or minimal involvement, whilst units do their own thing. I don't see them as clickfest at all and wouldn't play them if they were. In COTA, whenever new airborne units drop onto the map, I hit the pause button, work out where I want them to go, give the orders then restart. That might not be on if I played online but then I have generally found the AI in AA games to be good and have never tried head to head as a result.

I would prefer the title if it was easier to mod, since I always end up buying new titles for engines I like and might have a dozen at this rate before I get the one I always wanted [;)], but I think there is nothing like it out there, the gameplay is good, the AI is a challenge, they look quite nice as well these days and I appreciate their attention to detail. I have a few comments re the rules which I'll post in their forum shortly but they would represent enhancements (IMHO - not necessarily anyone else's) rather than attempts to fix anything as I don't think anything is broke.

I prefer TOAW (my all time favourite game), but that hasn't stopped me buying all three AA games and thoroughly enjoying them. I don;t think anyone has to be in any particular camp, there's room for all on my hard drive whilst I have the money and time to play them.

Regards,
IronDuke

[JudgeDredd]

I don;t think anyone has to be in any particular camp, there's room for all on my hard drive whilst I have the money and time to play them.

Exactly my seintiments also. [&o]