IE7 Or Better?!!

[Stridor]

Ok, we have managed to get at least the RBG/RCG working somewhat with IE6. The guts seem to be working, but there are a few graphical glitches which was why I migrated from IE6 in the first place. It shouldn't affect your ability to make battles and campaigns; it just won't look good doing it [;)]

I would like to put you in the shoes and mindset of a programmer/developer to perhaps help you see why things happen the way they do. Just to let you know we don't do things to intentionally scare the customer off.

Developing the editor early with IE6 when PCOWS came out in 2006. Hey why are my pngs not transparent! Lots of searching ... IE6 doesn't do trans pngs! Ok I will need to code around that and that code around is slowwwwwww! Hey why do these drop down boxes show other elements through despite the low z-index? It doesn't seem to occur with any other elements? Lots of searching ... IE6 bug with drop downs! Ok something else to code around, in the end there were something like 10-20 or so IE6 "bugs/buglets" which were well known and publicised. Then IE7 came out and lo, all the bugs were fixed (sure new ones were added, most of which are squished now). The editor works better than ever, faster too. So should I go back and make code changes which need to code around IE6 limits or just accept the better IE7 system. IE7 is free, there didn't seem to be any user impediment to adopting it? So I decided to go with IE7. In time when all my machines were upgraded I never even had an IE6 system to test against anymore. Everyone in the beta test group used IE7 and it was really my fault that I didn't arc up when I saw the system specs published. I should have.

I think from a user perspective you would probably want to update to one of the more advanced browsers now as they just offer so much more in the way of browsing experience than the last generation did. You don't need to go IE even, FF & Opera all have their ardent supporters. You only need IE7 installed; you don't need to use it. The editor suite basically uses the render engine and some other hooks, that is all.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

Cheers

S.

[Mraah]

You know, just my late post .02 cents worth about the whole issue ... I know Stridor has fixed the problem.

I don't know how many people save their old computer systems. For me, I still have an old P1 with Win98 on it.

Anyway, if you had two computers networked, even the old serial port connect, you can run IE7 on the cheap old computer and just share the files.

Soooo, we can spend thousands of dollars on new junk, but nobody looks at their old junk for building a scrap cpu for emergency use.

Rob

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Stridor
Ok, we have managed to get at least the RBG/RCG working somewhat with IE6. The guts seem to be working, but there are a few graphical glitches which was why I migrated from IE6 in the first place. It shouldn't affect your ability to make battles and campaigns; it just won't look good doing it [;)]
Cheers
S.

Stridor,

I'm curious ... Are you going to have an OPTIONAL patch for IE6 users or is this going to effect IE7 users? (I'm an IE7 user).
As much as I appreciate your time spent making this work for IE6 users I fear, that as an IE7 user, we'll have to live with lower quality bell's and whistle's because of the whole ordeal ???

[&:] Rob

[Stridor]

No Rob it is ok, the IE7 experience won't be touched.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Mraah



You know, just my late post .02 cents worth about the whole issue ... I know Stridor has fixed the problem.

I don't know how many people save their old computer systems. For me, I still have an old P1 with Win98 on it.

Anyway, if you had two computers networked, even the old serial port connect, you can run IE7 on the cheap old computer and just share the files.

Soooo, we can spend thousands of dollars on new junk, but nobody looks at their old junk for building a scrap cpu for emergency use.

Rob

Actually, that's exactly what I did last night after first posting about IE6. I went ahead and loaded IE7 on my laptop, which only get used when I'm on the road. It's networked to my desktop at home, so I went ahead and put IE7 on it left IE6 on my desktop and then did a quick Random Batlle just to see what it looked like then shared the file over to my desktop to play.

Rick

[Hartford688]

Just curious, what is the reason people who run IE 6.0 do not want to run 7.0?

I have found it more stable, and the tabbed browsing makes for a much better experience. Presumably there is something I am not aware of.

[Grell]

Hi Hartford,

I guess some people just get overly attached to something and it's hard for them to let it go. Just like me and win XP I love it and I will be unhappy when I have to change, but I'll draw it out until the very last day.


Regards,

Grell

[Erik Rutins]

Honestly, I also never thought that requiring the new standard MS browser that has been out for two years now and heavily updated would be an issue, especially since we don't require you to USE it, just to install it. I guess I learn something new every day.

As Stridor noted, we have a version that seems to work with IE6, though there are some visual bugs due to IE6 glitches. I hope those of you who've been asking for IE6 support will send him a thank you note for getting this working so quickly as he has been putting in overtime post-release to make this possible.

We'll see how many of those can be squared away, but they don't affect the actual functionality so it seems pretty certain that IE6 support will be in the first update. For those who want the best experience with all the extra applications and tools though, we strongly recommend installing IE7.

Regards,

- Erik

[helm123456789]

ORIGINAL: Grell

Hi Hartford,

I guess some people just get overly attached to something and it's hard for them to let it go. Just like me and win XP I love it and I will be unhappy when I have to change, but I'll draw it out until the very last day.


Regards,

Grell

Grell explains this situation perfectly were a user is comfortable with the applications or hardware they are currently using and resist change. Or they remember limitations or security risks invovled in the initial release of said hardware and applications vowing never to use again. Unlike Ravinhood who rants like its the end of the world and we're minutes away from the rapture.

I'm running Vista with Norton and the only tracking cookie that I get on my machine when using IE7 Norton kills and it comes from the Battlefront web site.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: helm123456789

Grell explains this situation perfectly were a user is comfortable with the applications or hardware they are currently using and resist change. Or they remember limitations or security risks invovled in the initial release of said hardware and applications vowing never to use again. Unlike Ravinhood who rants like its the end of the world and we're minutes away from the rapture.

I'm running Vista with Norton and the only tracking cookie that I get on my machine when using IE7 Norton kills and it comes from the Battlefront web site.

I'm the one that started this messy post and I feel almost the same as Ravinhood about IE7. However, I love changes to software and I do not resist change. I love technology advancements! However, I have used IE7 many times and it has never been anything but trouble for me. You appear to be one of the fortunate ones and that's great for you. However, I have been to sites of people that have nothing but IE7 problems. All IE versions are known to be security threats. As far as security goes IE is the worst browser.

Eric told me that I can have IE7 in the background and the game only uses the components, and I can handle that. That works for me. However, I can see where Ravinhood would not want to download IE7 as it writes over the IE6 components. It looks like that issue will be resolved very soon though and IE6 will work fine. [:)]

As far as Vista working fine for you, you are a minority. There are people that loved ME and that too was junk. I have a cousin and he uses Vista and likes it. Go figure?! [;)]

There are so many thousands of drivers and system differences! I can understand that software I dislike may be wonderful for someone else. What I DON'T understand is when people treat these issues like their mother got slandered. There's no good excuse. [:-]

[ravinhood]

I often wonder in a days experiences at a department store or some place like Walmart's how many people actually BUTT-IN when other people are complaining about a product or their experience with it. Yes, I can see it now 100's of thousands of buttinkskis buttin into other peoples issues and saying "Oh that product works fine for me there's nothing wrong with it." lol I find people are awfully bold on the internet to BUTT-IN to other peoples business of course because they won't get slapped around on the internet like they would in person if they were to do such a thing. Main thing is people just don't do it. I've complained at Walmart's and Sears and my Grocery store for years and years and never once had anyone else BUTT-IN while I was doing so. I always got what I wanted out of the situation as well and I was never confronted by a manager that said "But, it's always worked for me I don't see the blah blah about it". Nope in the real world you get "courtesy and "customer service" you don't get buttinski's or managers giving you a hard time. Most everytime I get asked this "What can "I/We" do to make it right? I like that. Not excuses.

[LarryP]

You got me to thinking... good point. That's true, I have never had anyone do that in person, only on the Internet where the boldness comes out. I remember arguing with Hussar Games about their menus in For Liberty. There were several BUTT-IN-Skis that were for the crummy menus and shot me down. This was over at Battlefront as well as here. "OK, if you don't want a better product then I'm outta here" is the attitude I finally got. I couldn't believe it! [X(]

Anyways, back to this game here. It seems you would like to buy it if it would use IE6? [&:]

I'm very interested in it as I have all of the Combat Mission series. I guess if it will use IE6 then I don't have to do a thing other than download and play!!! After thinking more about it, I still don't want IE7 in the house. [:D]

[Erik Rutins]

Ravinhood,

While that may be true, it's also true (in my experience) that I've never had people behave to me in person the way you do on the internet. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Ravinhood,

While that may be true, it's also true (in my experience) that I've never had people behave to me in person the way you do on the internet. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

Dang, that's a good point to. Had not thought of that comparison. However I have had people act worse than that to me in person, and for no good reason. Really. [8D]

[Waffenamt]

I went to Vista64 after M$ screwed up the "repair install" function in XP about last August if you had IE7 installed.  It was some crappy stealth update they sent out. You have to uninstall it beforehand if you try and do a repair on XP, like I used to do about every 3 months. If you don't you're going to hit the twilight zone eventually, especially with win updates and IE functionality. [:(]
 
I now have both 64 and 32-bit versions of IE7. My system is now rock solid, whereas I was getting the occasional BSOD with XP. I needed to do a fresh install, and just bit the bullet. There again, I'm a network guy and also knows how to set up a PC properly. I like to keep just outside of the "bleeding edge" but I never encountered these driver issues and installation nightmares that people with either limited knowledge or crappy machines encountered. It's nice for you naysayers to run down stuff you haven't properly tried or obviously screwed up somehow, but please, don't try and drag down the rest of us who moved on. I don't believe that people who have Vista working properly are in a minority anymore, but I understand many out there still cannot or will not upgrade either because they don't yet have adequate hardware, knowledge or means. [8|]
 
Bottom line - you can still play PzC Kharkov if you want to, or you can carry on with your wingeing as if there are so many of you with this disadvantage. It runs like a charm on my setup and is an excellent game. Apart from COTA it is the only game I've bought in the last 3 years and it's a keeper. I'd long ago shelved my 3 CM CDs, and have no interest in CMSF. This is a real breath of fresh air and you can at least try the game out itself before without using the editors the IE7 issue resolves itself one way or another. [:)]
 
Regards

[WYBaugh]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I often wonder in a days experiences at a department store or some place like Walmart's how many people actually BUTT-IN when other people are complaining about a product or their experience with it. Yes, I can see it now 100's of thousands of buttinkskis buttin into other peoples issues and saying "Oh that product works fine for me there's nothing wrong with it." lol I find people are awfully bold on the internet to BUTT-IN to other peoples business of course because they won't get slapped around on the internet like they would in person if they were to do such a thing. Main thing is people just don't do it. I've complained at Walmart's and Sears and my Grocery store for years and years and never once had anyone else BUTT-IN while I was doing so. I always got what I wanted out of the situation as well and I was never confronted by a manager that said "But, it's always worked for me I don't see the blah blah about it". Nope in the real world you get "courtesy and "customer service" you don't get buttinski's or managers giving you a hard time. Most everytime I get asked this "What can "I/We" do to make it right? I like that. Not excuses.

Ravinhood,

If you don't want people responding to your complaints then don't post on a public forum. Send it to Erik et al through a PM.

I can understand reluctance to using IE as a browser due to security reasons but if you want to be a Windows user, you have to live with the choices made by MS and developers. Do you have .NET installed on your system or do you consider it a huge security risk? Do you have Java installed? Do you have quicktime, flash, etc??

As developers move forward with new technologies they cannot easily make it backwards compatible in every instance.

I am not a game developer, but I am a developer for 18 years and have been coding .NET programs for at least 3 years. Users had extreme issues with installing .NET since it just more junk from MS and a 'security risk'. The same people had no problems running Java even though it's the same thing....libraries needed for coding.

If and when you upgrade to the next version of Windows beyond Vista MS will have everything you hate already bundled into the OS. I haven't read why you have boycotted IE7 but as others have stated, I run it as my main browser and have 0 issues. I'm run a very secure computer using a router/NAT, Kaspersky AV and have never run into any issues.

Bill

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Nick Schieben

"but please, don't try and drag down the rest of us who moved on."

When did I do that? [&:] Read the last post on the previous page. [:)]

[sabre100]

ORIGINAL: WBaugh


I can understand reluctance to using IE as a browser due to security reasons but if you want to be a Windows user, you have to live with the choices made by MS and developers. Do you have .NET installed on your system or do you consider it a huge security risk? Do you have Java installed? Do you have quicktime, flash, etc??

As developers move forward with new technologies they cannot easily make it backwards compatible in every instance.

I am not a game developer, but I am a developer for 18 years and have been coding .NET programs for at least 3 years. Users had extreme issues with installing .NET since it just more junk from MS and a 'security risk'. The same people had no problems running Java even though it's the same thing....libraries needed for coding.

If and when you upgrade to the next version of Windows beyond Vista MS will have everything you hate already bundled into the OS. I haven't read why you have boycotted IE7 but as others have stated, I run it as my main browser and have 0 issues. I'm run a very secure computer using a router/NAT, Kaspersky AV and have never run into any issues.

Bill

I could not agree more with this statement it is 110% right on, Whether people like it or not developers need to use what the mainstream has and some of these libraries are needed by the apps you develop whether you like it or not. This is Window and Mircrosoft they can do as they please in their OS if you don't like it go to another OS and forget the apps and games that Windows provides bottom line. Most game developers or companies would say too bad this is our requirement don't buy it I am suprised Matrix is even looking into trying to address this non-issue for its customer another reason why I continue to buy Matrix games. This is not even a bug or issue and they are willing to look into it. Personally if I was the developer I would not waste my time and say move on and upgrade you will do it eventually whether you like it or not and if you don't like it guess what you won't be using Windows. I have IE7 had it for the longest with no issues and I also have Safari installed.

Just my 2 cents.

[ravinhood]

One thing you buttinski's need to think about here. Do you think Erik et al would be making or even trying to make fixes for this just for ME? hahah Not on your life. If it wasn't a real issue Erik would just blow smoke about it like everything else and that would be it. It's a major issue for them to even think about trying to fix it. It ain't just for me buttinski's.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

One thing you buttinski's need to think about here. Do you think Erik et al would be making or even trying to make fixes for this just for ME? hahah Not on your life. If it wasn't a real issue Erik would just blow smoke about it like everything else and that would be it. It's a major issue for them to even think about trying to fix it. It ain't just for me buttinski's.

I thought he loved you and was doing it just for you?! [&o]