The Art of War

[Mardonius]

Hi Jimmer:

You could, if you want, conduct bids outside the GAP program and then use dummy bids with the GAP program to recreate who is at war with whom. Allows you to exceed the 30 point limit while also allowing folks to start at war.

Some more Hose rule for discussion...

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

Let's get some more comments on the "house rules".

Also, let's lay down how we are going to start. This is a vote, more or less, so if you fail to give your input, I'll assume you are with the majority. I will NOT chase people down to get them to vote.

The first thing we need to discuss is whether to use the GAP program or not. Tied to that are two other decisions: Start of game wars and bidding limits. The GAP allows nations to start the game at war, and it caps bids at 30. We ran into some trouble in a previous game where one player started the game at war, assuming others all would as well. But, the game had more conservative players (all of the other 6), and so poor Prussia was alone at war with France in January 1805. Furthermore, since this happened pre-game, France was allowed to set up ready to invade (knowing he had only one serious enemy for at least the first month).

Needless to say, what this taught the players is that one should be careful with pre-game wars. While they save PP, they REQUIRE diplomacy. Personally, I could not care less whether others start at war, but I guarantee that I will not. So, my "vote" is to allow it.

The second part is the cap for Victory Points bid. The GAP caps it at 30, which is absurdly low for France. So, I'm a strong negative vote on VP capping, and thus I'm opposed to using the GAP. I've written my own version of the GAP that doesn't have limits.

Let's hear it from others, both on house rules and on the two items I listed today. The two from today we need answers on right away, so I'll close the discussion and vote down tomorrow night (Wednesday night, Sept 17) at 9:00 PM US Central time (GMT-6 +1 for daylight time). That gives people almost two full days to comment.

These are some house rules that seem to work pretty well. The only two I think are close to vital are the no forwarding e-mail rule and the defender must send his chit selection to someone else... But the rest of them do make the game a little more balanced/fun/or historical, depending on the option. In any even, they are a good thing to look at and consider, if for no other reason than to get an understanding of some of the game dynamics.



1)For initial war UK and FR can only have unconditional surrender; FRANCE must take 2 fleets, Nelson; England must take Napoleon

2)Dardanelles Restriction: Unless Constantinople is besieged, you can not sail into or through the Sea of Marmara (the Straits) or blockade Constantinople. Owner of Constantinople excepted, of course.

3) Any controlling country cannot use fleet/corps against any country NOT declaring on minor (or at war with minor) until war is lapsed or that minor is conquered.

3a) You can not attack a minor that you did not declare war on. Example 1: France and UK are at war. Spain Dows on Portugal. France gets control of Portugal. Britain can not attack Portuguese forces unless War between Spain and Portugal lapses and France gains full control. Example Two: Britain and Russia are at war with France. Britain DOWs against Denmark. France gains control. Russia can not attack Denmark unless war between Denmark and UK lapses and France gains full control of Denmark. Similarly, you can not use DoW acquired minors to take action other than defending against their aggressor until the initial war has lapsed. NOTE: I added this part for clarification --Varick


4) Cannot declare on a minor country with intention of lapsing to give to another.

5) Naval engagement involving minors fleets must, where possible, involve and equal number of controlling major nation ships. This house rule comes from attempts to "run the guns of a port". For example, Spain and the UK are at war. Spain DoWs on Portugal and Britain gains control. Britain may not attack Spanish ports unless an equal number or greater British ships accompany the attacking Portuguese and losses are proportional.

6) Proportional losses at land and sea. Engagements should take losses from different nations according to proportion committed. Cavalry, guard, artillery, guerrillas, militia, Cossacks, freikorps, and feudals to be exceptions to this rule. Cavalry pursuits should be proportional too except for feudal/cossacks/freikorps. Reason: Spreads out the losses, as is historical.

7) No forwarding other's e-mails. You can write whatever you like someone else said, but the forwarding of e-mails w/out permission is not allowed Reason: Makes to too easy for players to compromise diplomatic correspondence and discourages creativity.

8) The defender in a multi-corps battle must send his defense choice to a trusted ally. Reason: prevents cheating. Yes, this does occur and I have, sadly, seen it happen.


All the best,
Mardonius

[menik]

Gap: no, for me. a) This is a tutorial and we need not the problem about the bid; b) the nation I like most is Prussia (I have had, as Prussia, a gema with France at war against me in january 1805 too!) but I think it is better, in this game, a more rationally distribution of the nations: i. e. it is better for me to have Spain/Turkey because of my poor English (= a poor diplomacy!). Me as Prussia could could ruin the diplomacy!)

Pre-game war: no, for me. It is a long game and we have all the time for a great war. Let'us take our time to learn a good game. A winter war in the firt year is not a good theme

cap for Victory Points bid? mmmhhmm...as spanish-Turkish future player (I hope) I have no opinions about this.

[Jimmer]

My responses to Mardonius' proposed house rules:
 
1)  I can take it or leave it regarding the enforced conditions, but I think an unconditional should always be asked for. So, I accept 1. I would prefer the original rule though (second condition against the Brits is access -- keeps France from decimating the British).
2)  Agree
3) and 3a)  I don't agree with either option. They defeat the whole purpose of having minor neutrals. However, I would agree to a slight variant on 3a: If both powers get into the city (during the same turn), the one who declared on the minor always wins.
4)  Agree
5)  Disagree. If it were limited to just attacking ports, I would agree. Again, the whole point of minors is to lose them in combat (along with ones enemy, of course).
6)  Disagree. Too much work, and it doesn't provide any value (the corps tend to disappear, thus ending the problem). Plus, it's highly a-historical.
7)  Agree completely. However, please note the special purpose of this game: To learn how to play, completely. Thus, we're going to be pretty open anyhow, so this option won't make much difference.
8)  As long as he doesn't need to receive a reply before combat, I agree.

[Jimmer]

I can agree on the "use the GAP for official purposes only" idea. Except, the limit of 30 is still present. I don't see how it can be overcome, unless the final file can be edited.

[ess1]

I vote for GAP (no wars).   Remainder: no fixed opinion, so with majority.

[DCWhitworth]

I'd say not start with wars because we want to keep it as simple as possible given it's a tutorial.

Also do we actually need to bid ? Since we're not being seriously competitive with this could we not select nations ? The main reason I agreed to play was that I was expecting to be able to play GB as a learning experience, the game will be a lot less attractive to me if I could end up with anything.

[Jimmer]

Good point. How many people really want to bid? If people would rather skip bidding, I'll just assign "bids" based on the usual range (or choose all zeros, depending on player attitudes).
 
This option would be good if most people have a specific nation they want to play. So far, I've heard two guys who really want to play GB and France, respectively. I'll play anything, whatever is last. If the majority don't care, let's just assign bids and be done with it. Here are the bids I will assign if
 
1)  Nobody disagrees with the numbers, and
2)  Nobody desperately wants to go through bidding (enough to bring it up ).
 
Austria . . . . . . 10
France . . . . . . 30
Great Britain. . . 20
Prussia . . . . . . . 1
Russia . . . . . . . 15
Spain . . . . . . . . 4
Turkey . . . . . . . 2
 
If ANY person really wants to actually bid, we'll bid. But, the above numbers are from a General article of about 20 years ago as "reasonable" or "expected".
 
The only reason to use bids at all is to show how they work. If everybody (who responds) says don't bother, I'll just make them all zeros. We'll all know France is going to "win", but we don't really care about that.

[Jimmer]

Another thing: As you can see from my posts last night, I don't agree on a couple of things. As if any two EIA players ever will ...[8|].
 
Because I'm the "host", with somewhat "god-like super-being" powers, I'm not going to count my "votes". Instead, I'll be the tie-breaker only (sort of like the vice-president is in the Senate). That will keep me from appearing to "impose my will" on the others simply because it's my Google Group or something.
 
But, I will continue to post my opinions, and what my vote "will be" if needed.
 
So, as of right now, unless someone chimes in with some votes, we'll be going with Mardonius' suggested house rules.

[Jimmer]

By the way, if anybody is a true rookie (i.e. this will be your first game, or first against humans, or a very early game in your EIA "career"), I recommend reading through the "Nation Tips" posts in the "War Room" forum. I wrote several (one for each nation, I think, plus one that applies to all nations), and you may find they have some useful comments. Also, many other people wrote their tips, too, in the same threads. So, I recommend you read through those, especially for your own nation. But, even for others; It's always good to have an idea of what ones opponent's strengths and weaknesses are.
 
In this game, it's easy to get trashed in a way that can be embarrassing. Hopefully, the "we don't care who wins" format of this game will prevent that from being an obstacle to decent play. But, everybody most likely wants to improve their game, so every resource at hand should be used (IMO).

[Jimmer]

Oh, and one more semi-rule: Try as hard as you can to get to your email AT LEAST once a day, and preferably 3-4 times each evening. However, please realize that we have two people who will be playing from another continent, so a 24-hour turnaround will be difficult to maintain (therefore, let's not impose that one). Instead, let's just try to keep the game moving.
 
This is especially important when your next phase is coming up. But, in case some haven't noticed, the phases all take place in different orders. But, there are some commonalities. Diplomacy goes in one order. Reinforcement goes in the opposite order. Naval and land go in orders that match one of the two previous phases, but not exactly. Plus, France and GB can choose their position in "their" phase (France in land and GB in naval).
 
So, it gets a little tricky to know whether your turn is coming up. But, there are a few times when you really need to pay attention. GB at the end of diplomacy will have another phase after Spain completes both of her phases. No other players are between GB's two phases (diplo and reinforce). Between Reinforcement and Naval a similar thing happens with Russia (close to last in reinforcement, first in naval, assuming GB goes last).
 
Keep your eyes open for these end-cases that happen between phases. ALL of the phases have some measure of this phenomenon, sometimes dependent upon which order has been chosen by GB, France, or both.

[Jimmer]

One other thing: I'm going to skip all Prussian naval turns, and all Austrian ones if his fleet "disappears". This will be done manually, though, so if a special case happens (like, Prussia gaining Denmark, for example), I'll stop doing it.
 
The only reason I mention this is so nobody has any hard feelings the first time I do it.
 
I'll do it as soon as I see the situation. But, I'll always check to see if Prussia/Austria have already posted their non-move, and use that if already done. So, basically, I'm asking for permission to do this.

[Jimmer]

OK, it looks like no GAP, no pre-existing wars, and no bid caps.
 
But, do we even want to bid at all? DCWhitworth suggested not bidding. Do all 7 of you have a favorite? Or, a list of nations you might be interested in? If we don't bid, I've got guys for GB (Ray), Prussia (Htullio) and France (DC) already. And, I will take whatever is left after the rest of you choose. So, that leaves (IF we go without bidding) Austria, Russia, Spain, and Turkey. Do any of the rest of you have a preference?