Observations

[Marauders]

Just to make this clear, I had noted that playbooks in the game needed to be fleshed out and updated long ago.  As someone who tested PDS features, it was an area that I had been able to observe first hand. 
 
Your observations are valid in that the defenses can have trouble against outside runs.  There are some AI issues involved, but the larger issue is that the playbooks need to be cleaned up, updated, and fleshed out.  I am glad you have noted this, as it is an important issue.

[mudrick]

I wouldn't mind so much if I were using a team with a great OL against a very bad D, but that isn't always the case.
 
Do the defenders not take poor angles sometimes?  It looks as if on certain run plays that the defenders get caught up in the line allowing the RB to break free.  This mostly happens on run plays just outside the TE with no wideouts in slot.  The LB's in the middle seem to take a direct angle to the RB, RB shakes one tackle and he's gone.
 
Then you have these pass plays.
 
1B 3W Curls
1B 3W XYFLY
1B XY FLAG
1B3W X OUT
4W HR XZ FLY
4WR M OUT
4WR SLANT OUT
FS MOT OUT FLY CROSS
FS SLANT CIRCLE OUT
TRIPS 3
TRIPS 5
BUF P G4 SLOTS WHEEL
 
 
If I use those pass plays along with that run play, it doesn't matter what D i'm up against, I will score on every possession. 
 
I've noticed that the success of most of these plays have the WR's not stop at the end of their route.  Also the safties do not come to the ball.  Instead they run to the catch circle and the WR grabs it before it gets anywhere near the safty.  DB's do better when they are between the QB and the WR.  But the DB's do not ever intentionally try to position themselves there.

[Marauders]

I just completed a test.

The offense used the I 3WL 38 exclusively. Regular and flipped alternating.

The defense used the Fun and Gun basic 34 package as its defense.

These are the Washington offensive drives against New York for one half of football.

Here are the results:

2 yard gain
1 yard gain
4 yard gain
2 yard gain

------------- Over On Downs

1 yard gain
-5 yard penalty
6 yard gain
4 yard gain
7 yard gain (1st down)
-3 yard loss
4 yard gain
no gain
3 yard gain

------------- Over On Downs

-2 yard loss
1 yard gain
-4 yard loss
5 yard gain

------------- Over On Downs

- 10 yard penalty
2 yard gain
7 yard gain
2 yard gain
6 yard gain

------------- Over On Downs

2 yard gain
3 yard gain
7 yard gain (1st down)
9 yard gain
3 yard gain (1st down) (+15 facemask penalty)
8 yard gain
9 yard gain (1st down)
7 yard gain
2 yard gain
-5 yard loss
-4 yard loss

------------- Over On Downs

2 yard gain
1 yard gain
2 yard gain
3 yard gain

------------- Over On Downs

no gain
4 yard gain
-2 yard loss
3 yard gain

------------- Over On Downs

6 yard gain
no gain
Fumble and recover for -8 yard loss
1 yard gain

------------- Over On Downs

[mudrick]

Your fun and gun, or the one that comes with the game?

[Marauders]

Tullius stated: But the ratings are still a main problem. OLB are slower than ILB and Strong Safties have a very low rating for Block Avoidance. OLB are only a little bit faster than OL.

 
That is a problem in itself.  It is one of the areas I had listed that still needed to be cleaned up.
 

Simmer stated: Edit the player skills using JD's editor ... then edit the constants file.  Dont be afraid to turn the player attributes up a lot and then find a balance. This takes time to find a happy medium with offense and defense posistions.

 
Yes, I agree.
 

Simmer stated: In my opinion David was off on alot of player positions. Just make sure that you distribute the attributes in an even range with the global editor. You will get the desired results.

 
I agree, but they really should be set better as a default.

[Marauders]

mudrick asked: Your fun and gun, or the one that comes with the game?

My Fun and Gun. I don't have the old default one on my computer.

The updated Fun and Gun is much like the old one. It is just cleaned up for 2.0.

[mudrick]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

mudrick asked: Your fun and gun, or the one that comes with the game?

My Fun and Gun. I don't have the old default one on my computer.

The updated Fun and Gun is much like the old one. It is just cleaned up for 2.0.

Is it anywhere for DL? I checked out fbmax.com and didn't see it.

[Marauders]

Is it anywhere for DL? I checked out fbmax.com and didn't see it.

 
No, it isn't.  I made the changes to update the defenses I had created for that playback.  If it was up to me, at least that part would have been included in one of the 2.x updates.  I can't really get into why it was not.
 
Perhaps it will end up in an update, or perhaps I'll just have to make my own expansion pack.
 

[Mykal]

zipping it up and uploading it to fbmax would be easy enough
no reason to wait for updates that aint happening[8|]

[Marauders]

zipping it up and uploading it to fbmax would be easy enough no reason to wait for updates that aint happening.

 
There are other things that need to be cleaned up, and it would do Maximum Football and Matrix Games a lot of good to have these issues cleaned up out of the box.  I'd rather not have it done piecemeal.
 
There may still be the possibility of updates to elements of Maximum Football in areas other than the main program either through Matrix Games or outside of it.  This thread, and others, show the need is there.  The question is if it is worth Matrix Games or some other party pushing forward or not.

[Mykal]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

There are other things that need to be cleaned up, and it would do Maximum Football and Matrix Games a lot of good to have these issues cleaned up out of the box.  I'd rather not have it done piecemeal.

There may still be the possibility of updates to elements of Maximum Football in areas other than the main program either through Matrix Games or outside of it.  This thread, and others, show the need is there.  The question is if it is worth Matrix Games or some other party pushing forward or not.

I agree 100%
but I for one aint holding m breathe waiting and I dont think anyone else should either.

[garysorrell]

There are other things that need to be cleaned up, and it would do Maximum Football and Matrix Games a lot of good to have these issues cleaned up out of the box. I'd rather not have it done piecemeal.

I think we can all agree that 'out of the box' it would have been better to have a lot of this cleaned up.

There may still be the possibility of updates to elements of Maximum Football in areas other than the main program either through Matrix Games or outside of it. This thread, and others, show the need is there. The question is if it is worth Matrix Games or some other party pushing forward or not.

On this, I would suggest those users that are left not hold their breath. This has been the problem with this game from the start. A lot of sitting around and looking to the future. And this is why I wasnt thrilled with the 2.5 or 3.0 discussions. We were still looking at bugs in 2.0, and here we go getting people all juiced about a new version with h2h and stuff. At some point, you know people would have started saying 'Aw, just go ahead and close up development/support of 2.0 and give us that shiny new toy(3.0)'. The same crowd who said, 'Just release MaxFB, we can work thru the bugs...you know, like a public beta'.

I would prefer that we assume that this is it, and lets go from there. I DONT want to see any further anything done to MaxFB unless it is by David, or a new professional developer/developers.

If someday, the code were released, great. But until then, I just dont care. I went thru this kinda crap with MOO3 and FootballPro99. I would rather see the creative folks that are here, continue to better the game with what we have, and what we can do.
And on that note, I really wish that people would release the stuff that they make...not necessarily leagues, but playbooks, profiles, etc. Im not sitting on anything. I share it if I got it. If someone has an updated playbook, share it. New stadium, share it. Thats what kind of game David made, and it seems to me that we have a creative community that are probably familiar with games like Civ, Half Life, The Sims, and others that are very driven by the mod community.
If you post on this board, and claim to care about the game, then show it.

[Marauders]

This has been the problem with this game from the start. A lot of sitting around and looking to the future. And this is why I wasnt thrilled with the 2.5 or 3.0 discussions. We were still looking at bugs in 2.0, and here we go getting people all juiced about a new version with h2h and stuff.

 
I have always supported the lock, test, release developmental model for upgrades.  There has to be lock points to keep the game from being in perpetual test mode.
 
That stated, I would not have minded seeing 2.5 with extras that didn't require leagues to be reset or utilities to be altered.  3.0 was to be a different beast.
 

And on that note, I really wish that people would release the stuff that they make...not necessarily leagues, but playbooks, profiles, etc. Im not sitting on anything. I share it if I got it. If someone has an updated playbook, share it. New stadium, share it.

 
As a beta team member, you understand that there is some politics to it.  My focus has been making sure the game out of the box is much better.  It's pretty silly to have inadequate default playbooks in the game, and having a multitude of people create hundreds of formations, plays, and playbooks with different nomenclatures can muck things up for people just trying to figure out how to play. 
 
There has to be a plan that addresses the issues from front to back.  As you know, I have tried to get a plan like that implemented for over a year.  It takes a lot of time and effort to do what I would like done correctly, and I'm not going to take that time and effort to do it without some support from either the developer or the distributor.  I have put a lot of time into Maximum Football as a beta tester and as a volunteer board moderator, and I have been glad to do so, but my time is not unlimited.
 

I would rather see the creative folks that are here, continue to better the game with what we have, and what we can do.

 
That certainly is part of it, but in order for the community to grow, the game still has to be better out of the box, and the price needs to finally be put into line with its market.

[Marauders]

zipping it up and uploading it to fbmax would be easy enough

 
By the way, the plan for the updated Fun and Gun playbook was to update the default playbook with the 2.3 release and include new playbooks with the expansion pack.
 
I have a few offensive formations I'd like to flesh out with the Fun and Gun to make it more like the actual college Fun and Gun, and then I'll either get it into a patch or upload it here or on FBMax.

[Mykal]

Well I can understand that to some degree

I was looking forward to system were playbooks could be kept in seperate folders (like we were promised)
mainly because everytime you download someone else playbook(s) there are always filename issues which want to overwrite existing plays

but it wasnt to be.

[mudrick]

A 3D football game is not easy to make.  One that is realistic I mean.  But I do not think this game is far away.  Then add H2H and we have a winner.