A First Impression from a JA Veteran

[CowGod]

thanks dude:)

[VassagoPT]

ORIGINAL: CowGod

So this is not the actual sequel???????

Well, officially it is not a Jagged Alliance sequel since some retard at Strategy First decided to pull the plug on the Jagged Alliance 3D project.

Technically THIS IS Jagged Alliance 3D, but since they don't have the franchise rights the name was changed to JAZZ for the russian version and later to Hired Guns: Jagged Edge for the EU and US versions, but the game is still the same.

Unfortunately you get a new 3D graphics engine and very few improvements, and in exchange you loose a lot of other original JA2 features and get a slightly worse gameplay (totally modable though).

This may not seam very appealing, but the fact is 9 years have passed since JA2 was 1st released and even the most hardcore fans can't keep playing the exact same game for that long, even considering all the mods available now...
So HG is the closest game to JA you have until 2010 when JA3 is released, and at least for me a "poor" JA is still much much better than no JA at all

[CowGod]

Ok finally someone has put me in the picture! since i modded the game a bit it started to be quite pleasant, especially with the new camera settings. The enemy is super on nades but altough i istalled that patch. will se how it goes.

[GODSPEED7]

Yes, I had the same issue about the Grenades, I've read in another post that's because the AI characters ALL have Strenght set to 100 [[&:]] There is a file somewhere on this forum that 'patches' that issue..

Another perspective from a JA2 [UC, 1.13, Wildfire, etc..] and Brigade E5 Player...

I can't say this is a bad game, actually I find it has a more 'serious' combat system than Jagged Alliance 2 has. but what about Character interactions? it is... like most tactical russian games... inexistent. Because of the lack of funny comments or comments, I find this game is much more like Brigade E5 or 7.62mm. Too bad, 'cause that was a BIGGIE for JA series!

For the camera, once you change the settings, it ressembles Brigade E5 quite alot!
I do find it 'unsettling' to be able to purchase very good weapons from the start. I'm on day 3, I've went to the Safari, taken the Base "North" and finally the Crossroad; I can already buy an SVD and multiple versions of the new AK's.. Naturally, ammo seems to be somewhat of an issue in this game.

I find Hired Guns has a notch higher in realism vs. Jagged Alliance 2 [apart from the grenade problem].

What frustrated me the MOST was the false advertisment! [:-]
The game looks TOTALLY different on the behind of the box! [X(] The box has screenshots of the game... but the game they show looks like what JA3 looks in the previews. All the names of former JA2 Characters are there... the inventory is a replica.. but when you play the game it looks completely different.

I do have to complain that I dislike how small everything looks.. especially that I play at 1920x1200... the inventory is tiny! I would like to see the details on Guns and to the changes [like adding accesories] on the pictures as well. Brigade E5 is my hero in the domain of Guns and Modifications! [:(]

This game almost looks like a mix of Jagged Alliance 2 and Brigade E5... It is good. But could be better if preperly moded [8|]

[SlickWilhelm]

ORIGINAL: GODSPEED7

I can't say this is a bad game, actually I find it has a more 'serious' combat system than Jagged Alliance 2 has. but what about Character interactions? it is... like most tactical russian games... inexistent. Because of the lack of funny comments or comments, I find this game is much more like Brigade E5 or 7.62mm. Too bad, 'cause that was a BIGGIE for JA series!

I do find it 'unsettling' to be able to purchase very good weapons from the start.

Completely agree with these two points. It appears that the development team tried to add a little humor, but failed. It's not within the same zipcode of JA2 in the humor dept. Ditto with the merc personalities. Some of the sound bites that the mercs in HG make when you click on them seem to have no point. For example, when I click on "Dagger", he often gives out a "huh-huh-huh" like some bad Jabba the Hut impersonator. Why even bother with stuff like this if you're not going to make it good?[:-]

You and I seem to be the only two that don't want to be able to have all the cool hardware at the beginning. I prefer the JA2 approach, where the mercs and the enemy all have smaller, less lethal weapons in the beginning, then the cool stuff gets added in gradually.

[Erik Rutins]

Well, Taran is an idiot/goofball and Jabby is somewhat entertaining, from what I recall. I remember Arny being kind of amusing too. I will agree that there was more humor in JA2, but I think the developers did try to get some in, within the framework of a fairly serious subject.

[milkweg]

ORIGINAL: CowGod

So why is there a file in the game with all the merc names from ja2????? seems to me that something is a bit fishy!

Nothing fishy, those are just leftovers from when it was going to be an official JA2 sequel. Strategy First owns the IP to JA and the developer and publisher split so they can't use the JA names now but could before.

[milkweg]

I don't really care that much about the lack of good humor in HG. In JA2 they just said the same things over and over so it got tiring of hearing the same things said fairly quickly. At least in HG there is an option to squelch the character comments if it annoys you.

[zhanga]

I agree with milkweg, the conversation in JA2 was repetitive and wasn't that funny either. In the original JA it was funnier when Ivan spoke in Russian only and had an air of annoyance about him. Most others with the exception of Fidel were bland characters. And besides, in a game like JA you really want a crack team of commandos and listening to incessant bitching and walking out gets old quickly.

In HG, Dragon is quite funny when he refers to his Kungfu constantly. When he misses the eaiest shots he'd say something like "This gun is useless, I'll use my Kungfu." Small bits like that that occassionally makes you chuckle I think is all you ned in a game like HG.

Fallout 1 and 2 are truely funny, but only if you are familiar with its cultural references. And it's an RPG without any of the tactical elements.

I think people are demanding way too much from a game like HG with a small production budget. Fallout 3 spend more money on self-promotion than HG would have for everything, and  is a pile of steaming 3D console shit compared to it's predecessors with the depth of a car park puddle. Imaging if you apply the same level of critique to F3, you won't be requesting a mod, more like a rewrite.

Of course, I think HG can still be improved through taches and data modding, but overall I think the guys at Matrix Games and GFI have done a fantastic job.

[GODSPEED7]

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

Completely agree with these two points. It appears that the development team tried to add a little humor, but failed. It's not within the same zipcode of JA2 in the humor dept. Ditto with the merc personalities. Some of the sound bites that the mercs in HG make when you click on them seem to have no point. For example, when I click on "Dagger", he often gives out a "huh-huh-huh" like some bad Jabba the Hut impersonator. Why even bother with stuff like this if you're not going to make it good?[:-]

You and I seem to be the only two that don't want to be able to have all the cool hardware at the beginning. I prefer the JA2 approach, where the mercs and the enemy all have smaller, less lethal weapons in the beginning, then the cool stuff gets added in gradually.

Yeah, Now I pretty much will probably never use the Pistols or Sub-Machineguns... I started the game with an MP5, then on the first map I picked up the Garand M1, from there on I have no other reason to touch a pistol or sub.. In JA2, I would try different pistols at the start... then I would use different types of Subs... It kept me hoping and made me eager for the big assault rifles. Unfortunately, now that I already have an SVD I am simply eager to have the ammo, but that eagerness isn't the same though.

ORIGINAL: zhanga

I agree with milkweg, the conversation in JA2 was repetitive and wasn't that funny either. In the original JA it was funnier when Ivan spoke in Russian only and had an air of annoyance about him. Most others with the exception of Fidel were bland characters. And besides, in a game like JA you really want a crack team of commandos and listening to incessant bitching and walking out gets old quickly.

In HG, Dragon is quite funny when he refers to his Kungfu constantly. When he misses the eaiest shots he'd say something like "This gun is useless, I'll use my Kungfu." Small bits like that that occassionally makes you chuckle I think is all you ned in a game like HG.

Fallout 1 and 2 are truely funny, but only if you are familiar with its cultural references. And it's an RPG without any of the tactical elements.

I think people are demanding way too much from a game like HG with a small production budget. Fallout 3 spend more money on self-promotion than HG would have for everything, and is a pile of steaming 3D console shit compared to it's predecessors with the depth of a car park puddle. Imaging if you apply the same level of critique to F3, you won't be requesting a mod, more like a rewrite.

Of course, I think HG can still be improved through taches and data modding, but overall I think the guys at Matrix Games and GFI have done a fantastic job.

I know it was repetitive, but JA2 was still very entertaining [no not all funny, but some of them we're simply hilarious! you should play it over again!], even Ira's 'annoying' voice gave her a certain charm, Dimitri's retardedness was aggravating. Flo's weakness was laughable... Igor's Russian Accent was plain neat, not to mention Ivan's english was, let's face it.. not english... And I am leaving many characters out. Whnen you try almost all the characters in the game you even stop noticing how repetitive it is. I think it brought the characters alive, made you detest some while loving others. And thats what I find lacks in this game.. when I would hire fox not only for her medic skills, but just for her innuendo and sexy voice, or Red for his Irish/Scottish accent, stats weren't the only factor.. in Hired Guns I only look at stats..

And in no way am I saying this isn't a good game, I have taken into account that this was on a smaller budget maybe and I really do still enjoy the game. As I've mentioned there are things that I prefer in this game over JA2, it's a give and take situation, JA2 has earned it's mighty reputation [&o] over the years, our expectations are high as you've mentioned, but it keeps companies slightly on track. [:'(]

I think we all agree, some slight file moding will do the trick here. [:D] ...and maybe a few more voiceovers [;)]

[milkweg]

Voice over for Grunty would make me happy as he was my favorite character in JA2. Tex from JA would be a welcome comeback too.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: GODSPEED7
Yeah, Now I pretty much will probably never use the Pistols or Sub-Machineguns... I started the game with an MP5, then on the first map I picked up the Garand M1, from there on I have no other reason to touch a pistol or sub.. In JA2, I would try different pistols at the start... then I would use different types of Subs... It kept me hoping and made me eager for the big assault rifles. Unfortunately, now that I already have an SVD I am simply eager to have the ammo, but that eagerness isn't the same though.

Pistols can actually still be quite handy, especially for stealth work. A pistol with accuracy accessories and a silencer, with its low AP cost per shot, can be quite effective.

[ShadoWarrior]

While everyone else on my squad has SMGs or riflles, one of my mercs is still using a pistol with HP ammo and he's been devastating, since he can shoot twice as many times in a turn as the others due to the low AP cost.

[VassagoPT]

ORIGINAL: GODSPEED7
I do find it 'unsettling' to be able to purchase very good weapons from the start. I'm on day 3, I've went to the Safari, taken the Base "North" and finally the Crossroad; I can already buy an SVD and multiple versions of the new AK's.. Naturally, ammo seems to be somewhat of an issue in this game.

I conquered the 1st sector, the Safari, the crossroads, the Dam and the North base all on the 1st day and DJ's only had crap for sale. On the beginning of Day 2 DJ's received some better weapons like 2 Enfields and some AKs.
I'm still on Day2 but apparently, comparing with your report, the availability of guns on DJ's changes according to the number of days passed and not the sectors conquered.
That's obviously a flaw, dunno if it can be modded or not though...

All I can say is that I have some AKs, Sniper rifles, shotguns, FAMAS, M4, M14 and a lot of Garands and AKSUs and only got ammo for the Garands and AKSUs. Most were weapons drops since DJ's is still selling me crap.

Also, despite all the weapons I have I still use some submachineguns like the UZI, MP5K and the MAC10. Those are very good guns to use with burst on close range, and very useful for silent kills with silencer. I always carry a main weapon and a secondary (a knife on Dagger and Dragon, and SMGs on the rest).
Only the knife is better for close range, but few of the mercs can use that efficiently (2x5AP attacks to the head and it's a dead enemy without noise).
I don't use pistols though, because when in close range I rather burst the legs, but I might try some good pistol with HP ammo to shoot several times the arms of the opponent in close range and see how good it works compared to the SMGs.


As for HG being similar to E5 I fully disagree.
1st of all E5 and 7.62 have Smart Pause Mode, that ruins the gameplay for me and certainly can't be considered the same style of gameplay.
2nd E5 has different background management regarding both the sectors and the mercs, and that makes it very different for me too.
I ditched E5 after 2 or 3 tries, and I'm loving HG. Tried 7.62 with English MOD already and all I say is I won't play that.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: VassagoPT
I'm still on Day2 but apparently, comparing with your report, the availability of guns on DJ's changes according to the number of days passed and not the sectors conquered.

It's both as far as I know - DJ refreshes his inventory once per day, but when it refreshes it determines availability based on the reputation you've built through success in conquering sectors.

Also, in the beta update ammo should become available earlier.

[SlickWilhelm]

I will admit that while I miss the hilarious dialogue from Grunty("Who do think I am, Siegfried und Roy?!"), I am starting to warm up to the funny text banter going on during the combat in HG.

"Take that!"
"Want some more?"
"You bastard!"

It's amusing, but since it's only text, it's merely amusing. Sure do miss the voice characterizations from JA2.

[GODSPEED7]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: GODSPEED7
Yeah, Now I pretty much will probably never use the Pistols or Sub-Machineguns... I started the game with an MP5, then on the first map I picked up the Garand M1, from there on I have no other reason to touch a pistol or sub.. In JA2, I would try different pistols at the start... then I would use different types of Subs... It kept me hoping and made me eager for the big assault rifles. Unfortunately, now that I already have an SVD I am simply eager to have the ammo, but that eagerness isn't the same though.

Pistols can actually still be quite handy, especially for stealth work. A pistol with accuracy accessories and a silencer, with its low AP cost per shot, can be quite effective.

I somewhat agree, but my AK takes 4 AP's to fire... most pistols take 4 AP's to fire.. Plus all the enemies seem to try to shoot at me from afar, seeing as most of them seem to cary AK's, so the concern is distance. But I like how the game can be pretty different for everyone, and everyone has somewhat of a different tactic it seems.. I like this!
Does it cost AP's to raise your weapon? in that case the pistols become more useful.. And my other question is... why do pistols have more range or equal range to a submachinegun? The longer barrel on subs should give it longer range...

ORIGINAL: VassagoPT

As for HG being similar to E5 I fully disagree.
1st of all E5 and 7.62 have Smart Pause Mode, that ruins the gameplay for me and certainly can't be considered the same style of gameplay.
2nd E5 has different background management regarding both the sectors and the mercs, and that makes it very different for me too.
I ditched E5 after 2 or 3 tries, and I'm loving HG. Tried 7.62 with English MOD already and all I say is I won't play that.

I don't mean it exactly that way... I should have rephrased that, I know the turn-based difference between JA and Smart-pause of Brigade. Same for the map system.. but it ressembles Brigade or 7.62mm in the way that depending on whom you help will change your alliances within the game, which was not present in JA series. The graphics make me think of 7.62mm with some differences as well. The fact that the mercs don't seem to intereact very much with one another makes me think of brigade more than JA, There are quite a few things that can be noticed if you've played Brigade E5 or 7.62mm for a while. But let's not argue about that really, it might simply be my point of view on some features, I do like Brigade E5 though and can't wait for the real english version of 7.62, but I was much more eager for Hired Guns.. and I am VERY satisfied with it!