Russian Steel - Feel the thrill of being a Russian commander in 1941!

Penetrator · Post by **Penetrator** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 7:52 pm

Originally posted by Bing

This SMG unit has two 76.2mm 02/30 FH as part of the squad - one has no ammo, the other does and defintely fires when the rest of the unit does. The counterpart Y7 does not have the field howitzers, instead it has Molotov cocktails and a 7.62mm LMG, which may have been intended for the boys in R7.

Darn, that is one of my blunders. Will fix it.

UPDATE:

I cannot find this problem. I take it you are referring to slots 3 & 4 in unit R7? They are molotovs, (not how they are supposed to be though).
Has anyone else seen howitzers in unit R7 (or any other infantry unit in this battle)?

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 9:23 pm

Originally posted by Penetrator

Darn, that is one of my blunders. Will fix it.

UPDATE:

I cannot find this problem. I take it you are referring to slots 3 & 4 in unit R7? They are molotovs, (not how they are supposed to be though).
Has anyone else seen howitzers in unit R7?

Yes, slots 3 & 4 - which are done properly in the other unit.

Please note that it might not be R7 for others: Depends upon how many different units they purchased during Core and Support purchase phases. There are (going from memory) three other SMG units in the platoon plus some legitimate arty items.

I can send a turn file to whoever would like to look at this - cable here, no problem with zip and zap.

Bing

P.S. This is one heck of a battle, am enjoying it tremendously.

chief · Post by **chief** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:57 am

Bing: Thanks they were right where you said they'd be....I'm sure they weren't there before, if I can't see the deployment flags that would explain why I get my tail whomped by the AI all the time. Now to buy new core force and try again...at least I'll be two moves up from where I originally started.

parusski · Post by **parusski** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:08 am

Despite all the posted problems I just downloaded and started playing the campaing. I love it so far. What a different perspective-an frightning to be the Russian.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:17 am

Chief - Part of the problem is old eyes - here it is anyway - the other is the color of the demarcation flags: A little too often they blend so well with the landscape they can't be seen.

I have a special color profile for WAW in the nVidia "Color Correction" tab of Properties/Advanced settings. I have to crank the gamma up to 1.30 or 1.40 - else during daylight hours I would NEVER see those flags.

Getting used to the way the demarcation flags work is something else. Was a time I actually believed the enemy had to observe THEIR flags in a canned scenario / battle - not so if the designer didn't want it that way.

Bing

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:25 pm

Bump this thread .........

Guys, you got a NASTY little first battle with this camp. It cannot be fought in the usual manner - active as opposed to passive defense. Chase those Jerries into the bushs and you will get creamed.

I understand how German air power can take out my onboard mortars - and especially since I got lazy and went with no ammo limitation, so a lot of it the blame belongs to me - but I don't understand how enemy CAS at the same time can take out offboard arty. I had 3 X 120mm + 1 x 107mm mortars onboard - the game added more 107's and a 76.2mm FH btry offboard. The offboard 107 mortars also got taken out - the bombardment screen said they were "routed or retreating" same as the onboard!! Never had that happen before. The FH btry continued to be available on again / off again per usual, but the 107 mortars never came back.

Far as I know it wasn't enemy counter-battery fire did it, I never saw that come up (wasn't using the combat.txt file either, unfortunately).

Aside from this, German CAS literally wiped out 2+ platoons in the open - no choice there, once they get hit they won't move for several turns and are a sitting duck for a return CAS visit.

I got my head handed to me on a platter because I followed my usual fire-and-pursuit defense, all of a sudden up north on the map it looked like the midgets coming out of the VW at the circus, I mean all the armor in the WORLD was in one hex and my green Soviet tankers couldn't "hit the broad side of a barn with a bass fiddle", per James Whitmore as Halsey.

Am going to start this little stinker over again, want to test a slightly different mech.exe anyway and will 1) Use limited ammo and 2) Log to combat.txt file for every turn and save them - that's a lot of files but am going to do it for research and reference. BTW, despite a rather low arty rating, the Soviet FO does very well with onboard arty. I also will have more AA units, you can bet on that!

Woof!! This one is an authentic challenge, it keeps my interest that's fir sure - I see excellent design work here.

will report back later,

Bing

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:35 pm

I remember when the first posts came up that "wouldn't it be a good idea to have a campaign where everyone contributes" I am glad to see that it has come to fruitation.

I tried to download the battle but I get a URL not found error. I can only get the text.zip file.

chief · Post by **chief** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:32 pm

Bing: I concur with you said, but if I may add....russian squad in ambush position, unsupreessed, range set to 1, germs close, ruskis fire, no kills, return fire knocks down two reds, return fire, no kills, just how bad are the russians, I probably could have recieved more casualties if I'd a heaved a rock at them. That does not seem correct. I feel that even historically they weren't that bad.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:46 pm

Originally posted by chief
Bing: I concur with you said, but if I may add....russian squad in ambush position, unsupreessed, range set to 1, germs close, ruskis fire, no kills, return fire knocks down two reds, return fire, no kills, just how bad are the russians, I probably could have recieved more casualties if I'd a heaved a rock at them. That does not seem correct. I feel that even historically they weren't that bad.

I have produced a minor level of digitalis: R key for Rally, F key for Fire. Rapid repeats on both. I think the Soviet Conscripts do a pretty good job - considering their low rally levels. I wanted to see how they do when they leave their prepared positions.

Answer: Not very well at all. I'll keep them where they are and let the Germans come to me. Notice the difference in how the first line Sovietski rifle squads rally and resume firing. I"ll use them for flanking.

My (minor) complaint it that once again I have invincible enemies - some of the German inf squads can take repeated 120mm rounds in their hex, hundreds of rounds of automatic weapons fire - and not even lose one man. In fact, a 120mm mortar round landing two hexes AWAY from the Ge squad is more likely to produce casualties (almost always one at a time).

German 81mm mortars take out T-34's - the Sov 120mm does no such thing - I have not yet looked at the game parameters and compared them, right now I want to stop the Boche n front of Dubno - and make them pay dearly for whatever they wind up with at game's end.

BTW, though the OT-130 Sov FT tanks are a lot of fun - and very effective at one hex range - there is no question the game is programmed to get them with enemy CAS - in preference to 20 other Soviet tanks. I mean there is so much smoke you couldn't see your hand in front of your face - the Grman Bf's get the OT-130's every time. Same thing happened with Jap CAS and the GMC SPA 75mm in Watchtower.

So for the rerun I have purchased a dozen AA units - Come on, big guy, make my day.

Bing

chief · Post by **chief** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:58 pm

Bing: My troops at Dubno did so bad I pulled them back to bolster the second defense line, heavy MG, 3 hexes, no hits on a moving squad, come on!!!!!they were even out in the open, somethings not correct in Denmark (no insults to the Danes on this forum intended).

Penetrator · Post by **Penetrator** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:11 pm

I hear you are getting your asses kicked, that is excellent news;)
Actually, when I played this battle first I was lucky in the way I found the weaknesses in the german deployment, while avoiding the dangers. With a conservative attitude, you should be able to hold the germans.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:18 pm

Originally posted by chief
Bing: My troops at Dubno did so bad I pulled them back to bolster the second defense line, heavy MG, 3 hexes, no hits on a moving squad, come on!!!!!they were even out in the open, somethings not correct in Denmark (no insults to the Danes on this forum intended).

OK, but were they Conscripts or first line infantry squads? Makes a big difference. One of the reasons I play with the Limited Ammo off is it always takes an huge amount of small arms fire - even MG fire - to get much of anything done when the AI enemy is the German Uebermensch - or the Soviet Ilya Mourometz (Russian equivalent of the superhuman hero).

But to see if it makes a difference in the CAS department, I am going to change the Ammo to Limited.

Remember, the scenario is set at the time when the war had just started. A few days prior.While I have never believed the Soviets were truly surprised - certainly not at the general staff level - they were definitely not prepared. Conscripts don't even have Molotov Cocktails - reflecting (I beleive ) the general state of unpreparedness. They are, in a word, cannon fodder and not much else. Their reason for being there is to die.

Cheak witchas later, but I am getting the idea Dubno Defense is designed to knock the snot out of the Russki - who get their revenge later on.

Bing

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:22 pm

Even during the winter of 41/42 the Soviets still attacked with some waves of troops unarmed. They had to pick up weapons from the dead in front of them. The Soviets would often conscript the entire male population of a threatened area. I suppose they might have a few hours training but nothing formal. Conscripts seem to reflect these untrained drafts of raw manpower.

chief · Post by **chief** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:31 pm

Bing I understand unpreparedness (is there such a word), but to miss consistently at ~20' (max), conscript or not there should have been some hits. A squad in the open, moving, is an inviting target and if I understand the game it's vulnerable therfore it should get some suppression and hits. I don't surcome to the super race theory of 1939, only superman had bullets bounce off his big red S........chief

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Tue Mar 26, 2002 12:46 am

Is "surcome" a word?

Correction: I meant to look at the Morale of the Conscripts.

So they can't shoot straight. Get Jimmy Breslin after them (author of "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight"). Switch to unlimited ammo. Get bigger guns. There are ways around it.

Bing

Kaakao · Post by **Kaakao** » Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:07 am

What a fight, just got a marginal victory in the first battle with 12000 score against 7500. Soviet infantry is just a snack to German at first because their morale (less than 40 isn't good

). Well, all my T34 stayed alive and destroyed probably every tank they got with support from airplanes. I hope it's now a bit more easier when exp and morale are more than 50

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:13 am

Very pleased to see a campaign of this nature being developed.

AJVa · Post by **AJVa** » Tue Mar 26, 2002 3:21 am

Those T34s sure are fine beasts. They got me decisive victory in Dubno!:eek:

pops · Post by **pops** » Tue Mar 26, 2002 3:53 am

Thanks a ton....I wondered if you guys had given up on this!!!!!!!

Penetrator · Post by **Penetrator** » Tue Mar 26, 2002 4:09 am

Originally posted by pops
Thanks a ton....I wondered if you guys had given up on this!!!!!!!

We came close....

Russian Steel - Feel the thrill of being a Russian commander in 1941!

T34s to rescue