Early Soviet Strategies

[mariovalleemtl]

By the way 47, how do like to loose 12 Greman units near Kharkov in only 3 turns again a not advancing over carefull Russian General ?[;)][:)][:'(]

[Carl Myers]

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée

By the way 47, how do like to loose 12 Greman units near Kharkov in only 3 turns again a not advancing over carefull Russian General ?[;)][:)][:'(]

Bad Mario, bad, bad, Maro, you need to quit sandbagging new guys that way!!!

[mariovalleemtl]

LOL!
 
PS; 6 more on turn 4 and I start a charge...
 

[sabre1]

That was hilarious Carl.
 
Mario that's no way to treat new blood.  You are suppose to be kind and gentle like Jesus.

[mariovalleemtl]

To late, he surrender.[:(]

mario

PS:[:D]

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: Avatar47

Thanks for the input Gregor. I also see the 4-stack/1-line offensive as the only realistic way to advance forward for the reasons you mentioned.

I have, however, started a game here against our friend Mario Vallee, and he has the unusual Soviet start of not advancing at all. He made as many attacks as possible advancing 1-hex, and then moved back to the start line to entrench. I understand why he does it, but I don't think it'll gain him much ground, and the going is too slow. The defense line for the germans east of Kharkov can be quite solid if the Soviets don't destroy or advance too much. It's a short and compact line, so I was easily able to send off 23rd panzer to help out Krasnograd.

The Russians at Kharkov are definitely caught between a rock and a hard place. Advance too quickly and they are slaughtered. Advance too slowly, and the Germans can send an entire Panzer division off to Krasnograd and then the Russians there will be slaughtered.

Despite what STAVKA thought, the key to the battle that actually happened, as opposed to the one that they planned for, was Krasnograd. The first priority of the Russian at Kharkov is to force the Germans to commit both panzer divisions to its defence. The second is to kill as many Germans as possible. Both require running risks and accepting fairly high casualty levels.

The Russians will benefit from the changes to the refit mechanism in the V1.1 patch. So long as they can keep their units alive, they will be able to pull them out of the front lines and recover some steps. They will also be able to refit their artillery units, and if casualties haven't been too high, mount a second effort at Kharkov, which will keep the Germans on their toes.

Gregor

[Capitaine]

Gregor, what is the story on German resurrection of eliminated units.  I haven't played the Germans, but the word is that they get their destroyed units back soon after they're eliminated.  I can understand a theoretical basis for this practice, but it's demoralizing to think that the units the Soviets destroy will nonetheless come back to life against you.  And the Soviets get no destroyed units back other than HQs.

[mariovalleemtl]

The first priority of the Russian at Kharkov is to force the Germans to commit both panzer divisions to its defence. The second is to kill as many Germans as possible

 
Exactly. I personnally never send my tanks to the south before the front of Kharkov is secure. Then I send all of them. Usually, I have some success with this tactic.
 

The Russians will benefit from the changes to the refit mechanism in the V1.1 patch

 
and when we will have the chance to appriciate that may I ask Gergor ?

[hank]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Gregor, what is the story on German resurrection of eliminated units.  I haven't played the Germans, but the word is that they get their destroyed units back soon after they're eliminated.  I can understand a theoretical basis for this practice, but it's demoralizing to think that the units the Soviets destroy will nonetheless come back to life against you.  And the Soviets get no destroyed units back other than HQs.

The destroyed German units come back within 2 or 3 turns but they always return with only one step. So you have to use up replacements over the following turns to get them back to strength. I'm very selective which ones I give replacements to so I have the strongest units available in the later parts of the game.

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Gregor, what is the story on German resurrection of eliminated units.  I haven't played the Germans, but the word is that they get their destroyed units back soon after they're eliminated.  I can understand a theoretical basis for this practice, but it's demoralizing to think that the units the Soviets destroy will nonetheless come back to life against you.  And the Soviets get no destroyed units back other than HQs.

The Germans were masters at reconstituting units that had suffered major losses in combat, and tried very hard to keep a unit and its history and spirit alive. So German combat units in Kharkov have one life, and if eliminated will return, via the dead units OMA, to the map, but only with one step.

The Soviets didn't do this, if a unit had been worn down too far, then it was often disbanded and the survivors were simply assigned to other units, so no Soviet units, other than HQs, return to the battlefield.

Gregor

[hank]

With Gregor's previous reply as a basis, to offset the re-emergence of decimated German units, would it be logical to possibly give the Soviet replacement pool a boost of one step for each unit "eliminated".   ... using the word eliminated loosely.    Maybe only give the replacement pool a boost for units eliminated that were not surrounded.   ... surrounded units eliminated would obviously be marched off to POW camps or summarily shot.

Just a wild thought on a Friday ... TGIF !!!!

[Capitaine]

Again, not yet having played the German side, what about the case of one-step units, e.g. artillery?  Do they come back as well?  That would seem a bit too generous..

[Avatar47]

Before you ask so many questions about the german side Capitaine, why don't you take a few minutes to take a look at their units and/or play them ;o). You can answer your own questions if ya do!

[e_barkmann]

to check Cadre status, use the unit popup display and look for the skull icon. If the unit can return as a Cadre, there will either be 'one life' (meaning the unit can return once), 'unlimited' (meaning the unit can return each time it's destroyed), or no text in which case when it's dead it's dead.

cheers

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Again, not yet having played the German side, what about the case of one-step units, e.g. artillery?  Do they come back as well?  That would seem a bit too generous..

In Kharkov, HQs on both sides and German Combat units can return. In SSG terminology, artillery units are Support units, so won't be coming back.

Gregor

[Capitaine]

ORIGINAL: Avatar47

Before you ask so many questions about the german side Capitaine, why don't you take a few minutes to take a look at their units and/or play them ;o). You can answer your own questions if ya do!

Maybe because I'd like to see a little more discussion in this forum, eh? [;)]

[Capitaine]

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG


In Kharkov, HQs on both sides and German Combat units can return. In SSG terminology, artillery units are Support units, so won't be coming back.

Gregor

Excellent. That's the way it should be IMO. Nice design touch.

[BK6583]

Avatar47,

I've just purchased this game and have used this forum to learn everything I can. Did you in fact concede your game with Mario? I was hoping either or both of you would have followed up with more posts so I could determine what strategies work best. You said with the Russians in the north to be cautious but aggressive. That if you didn't advance and destroy at least three German units (if not more) the Russian player was doing something wrong (love to know how you did that). You said Mario's strategy was too cautious. Yet it seems Mario's stratgey was the correct one.

[Avatar47]

I never actually answered BK6583's question. Yes, I completely crushed Mario back then. We played 4 times or so, I gave up only on the 1st game after 2 turns, but in retrospect I shouldn't have. Been playing Across the Dnepr, and managed to crush all comers, whether as Soviet or Germans. 10+ years experience of SSG's system probably helped.

[NavalNewZ]

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