Least Fascinating War/Most Fascinating War

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: jackx
All this is guesswork though, so I'm liable to be completely wrong.

Let me guess right along with you.[8D]

By the time TV was becoming common, the WW1 vets were already dying from old age. Also, Hollywood was in its infancy during WW1. During WW2 there it was very easy to record things on film-and was done to a great degree. So, the tv era dawns upon us just a few years after the greatest war ever-and the movies and shows just flowed.

I remember as a kid watching shows such as "Combat" with Vic Morrow (not a bad show as I recall-or course, the platoon would loose a man each show while waxing a dozen Germans). There was another show that was somewhat more silly as I recall-The Desert Rats. I think it is highly probable that these shows sparked some interest about the war when I was very young. By the time I was 12 I was scanning libraries for military history.

No doubt some of us are prone to get involved or study military things, but the entertainment industry certainly helped fuel our interests.

[Endsieg]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

My impression of WWI is indeed pretty stereotypical and not based upon any real study of it. I usually associate WWI with trench warfare and more or less static front lines. I think this is probably a common perception of WWI, though. If you go to most bookstores WWII usually takes up 4 or 5 times the amount of shelf space that WWI does. Is this simply a matter of happenstance? Why is it that WWII seems to have so much more appeal to game designers and authors?

How about a simple answer? Most of our grandparents and a lot of our parents experienced WWII first hand. They told us it wasnt an interesting thing long before game designers tried to convince us it was "interesting". Our great-grand parents didnt think WWI was interesting either. Catch the drift?

[V22 Osprey]

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?

[Capt. Harlock]

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?

It's not illegal -- but it might just be unwise. Remember that WWI was indeed a "World" war, and it caused major changes in the geo-politics of the planet. There was serious action in the Middle East, including a successful British march to Baghdad. The results are felt to this day in Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Elsewhere, Germany's loss of her colonies in Africa and Asia caused considerable re-shuffling, including a major boost for the Japanese Empire, which in turn contributed greatly to the pacific theater of WWII.

The naval aspect also had features of note: the first battles between "dreadnought"-style battlewagons. Jutland might have ranked on the same scale as Trafalgar if superb German seamanship hadn't allowed them to get away after Jellicoe crossed their "T" --twice.

[wesy]

How about this war for the "Fascinating" category. Not a war that gets a lot attention in wargames or US history books for that matter.

Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905

Historical Events:


Battle of Port Arthur (Japanese Torpedo Boats) - surprise attack
The use of offensive mining
A precursor of WWI tactics such as entrenched positions, defended with machine guns and artillery
First time an Asian power defeated a European power in "modern" times
Battle of Tsushima - very lopsided defeat (putting it mildly) for the Russians,helped create the philosophy of the IJNs "decisive battle"
Contributed to the 1905 Revolution against the Tsarist Government
Loss of Russia's only warm water port in the Pacific

[wilecki]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?

Take it easy mate

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?

It's not illegal -- but it might just be unwise.

Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.

[wilecki]

ORIGINAL: wesy

How about this war for the "Fascinating" category. Not a war that gets a lot attention in wargames or US history books for that matter.

Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905

Historical Events:


Battle of Port Arthur (Japanese Torpedo Boats) - surprise attack
The use of offensive mining
A precursor of WWI tactics such as entrenched positions, defended with machine guns and artillery
First time an Asian power defeated a European power in "modern" times
Battle of Tsushima - very lopsided defeat (putting it mildly) for the Russians,helped create the philosophy of the IJNs "decisive battle"
Contributed to the 1905 Revolution against the Tsarist Government
Loss of Russia's only warm water port in the Pacific

Very interesting example. Let's not also forget about political and social implications of this conflict:
- rise of social unrest and criticism of the Tsar in Russia that led later to Bolshevik Revolution
- unrest in the Russian part of partitioned Poland helped later resurrecting Poland
- since Russian threat in the Pacific has been neutralized Japan turned to China

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.

Don't worry, I'm not interested in WW1 as well. [;)]

[wilecki]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

Ok, lets just end right here.I apologize for the WWI comment.I thought everyone was entitled to their own opinion, I dont find WWI that interesting, thats just me, there is no need to shoot me down for it.I'm not interested in Ancient warfare either, are you guys going to shoot me over that?Whats so special about WWI that makes it illegal to not be interested in it?

It's not illegal -- but it might just be unwise.

Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.

Really nobody is trying to crucify you for not liking WWI, don't be silly. You have to understand that your comments were not just and you simply forgot to think them through. Writing that WWI was a stalemate, trench warfare only conflict, with no real tactics (by the way you'd be surprised what kind of advanced tactics were used in the trenchwarfe just to mention massive terrain modifying with explosives, tunneling, late infiltration tactics with small squads, flame-throwers etc.) you've only asked the community to correct your point of view. And I can imagine that to involve your grandma to prove how much WWI sucked was the last straw

By the way please answer yourself this question: How does the stereotype WWI trench fight - one side charging at the other fortified with machineguns - differ from Omaha beach fight or Iwo Jima landing in terms of tactics? I personally see no difference. Here and there a calculable number of troops needed to die to make a breach. Am I right or am I right? Keep it cool

[Andrew Williams]

Take a read of CW Beans "The Official History of Australia in the War 1914 -18"

i have the original publication including the missing volume XII

this is fascinating stuff showing the development of tactics and training over the course of 5 years.... trench warfare for the Australians became anything but a charge over open ground into machine guns.


http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/first_world_war/

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: wilecki

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock



It's not illegal -- but it might just be unwise.

Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.

Really nobody is trying to crucify you for not liking WWI, don't be silly. You have to understand that your comments were not just and you simply forgot to think them through.

Like me I think Osprey was simply stating an opinion as a wargamer and military enthusiast that WWI is uninteresting relative to WWII or perhaps other wars. It's not a matter of "justice" or not thinking through. It's an opinion from a hobbyist. I've thought my comments through and I still think WWI is not an interesting war to game or read about-at least not as interesting as WWII.

I appreciate that in your opinion WWI was interesting. I don't see why everyone needs to hold the same opinion.

[V22 Osprey]

Edit:Just forget it.[8|]

[jackx]

Nothing's wrong with that. What went wrong, though, is that a thread asking about personal interest turned into arguments for general interest, which in turn led to people feeling they're being attacked for their personal opinion.

The TV thesis for WW2 predominance sounds likely when it comes to general appeal, but does little to explain why WW2 does so little for me in terms of personal and emotional involvement. For me, WW1 symbolizes the tragedy of war much more than WW2, but I can't point to any precise reason for that.
I did try to provide some reason as to why I find the 18th century, and particularly its military aspects, so intrigueing - it's so full of contradictions, and still so much more different from a modern world in so many ways, but I offered that purely as an explanation, not as justification...

Edit: Thanks for the edit, Osprey - since I like my (oh so clever ) choice of words for the first part of my post, I'll now have to mention that you asked what was wrong with not finding WW1 interesting.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: jackx

Nothing's wrong with that. What went wrong, though, is that a thread asking about personal interest turned into arguments for general interest, which in turn led to people feeling they're being attacked for their personal opinion.

The TV thesis for WW2 predominance sounds likely when it comes to general appeal, but does little to explain why WW2 does so little for me in terms of personal and emotional involvement. For me, WW1 symbolizes the tragedy of war much more than WW2, but I can't point to any precise reason for that.
I did try to provide some reason as to why I find the 18th century, and particularly its military aspects, so intrigueing - it's so full of contradictions, and still so much more different from a modern world in so many ways, but I offered that purely as an explanation, not as justification...

Edit: Thanks for the edit, Osprey - since I like my (oh so clever ) choice of words for the first part of my post, I'll now have to mention that you asked what was wrong with not finding WW1 interesting.

I don't know. You could say WWII was a snooze and I really wouldn't take offense. Part of expressing an opinion sometimes involves making general pronouncements about the topic. I really don't see where all the moral outrage was coming from.

So what are your most interesting and least interesting wars? (in an attempt to get back to a civil discussion of the OP)

[wilecki]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: wilecki

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey



Why is it unwise? Why are you guys shooting me for not liking WWI?

I'm afraid for the person who says they are not interested in WWII on this forum.You guys might kill him over that.

Really nobody is trying to crucify you for not liking WWI, don't be silly. You have to understand that your comments were not just and you simply forgot to think them through.

Like me I think Osprey was simply stating an opinion as a wargamer and military enthusiast that WWI is uninteresting relative to WWII or perhaps other wars. It's not a matter of "justice" or not thinking through. It's an opinion from a hobbyist. I've thought my comments through and I still think WWI is not an interesting war to game or read about-at least not as interesting as WWII.

I appreciate that in your opinion WWI was interesting. I don't see why everyone needs to hold the same opinion.

I never said that my opinion is the ultimate one, it ain't. I only wanted to answer Osprey's comments where by repeating stereotypes he lost the whole picture. I am sorry that you see all my comments as an attempt to force my opinion on somebody and not as an attempt to help seeing some things beyond stereotypes and from a wider angle.

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: wilecki

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: wilecki



Really nobody is trying to crucify you for not liking WWI, don't be silly. You have to understand that your comments were not just and you simply forgot to think them through.

Like me I think Osprey was simply stating an opinion as a wargamer and military enthusiast that WWI is uninteresting relative to WWII or perhaps other wars. It's not a matter of "justice" or not thinking through. It's an opinion from a hobbyist. I've thought my comments through and I still think WWI is not an interesting war to game or read about-at least not as interesting as WWII.

I appreciate that in your opinion WWI was interesting. I don't see why everyone needs to hold the same opinion.

I never said that my opinion is the ultimate one, it ain't. I only wanted to answer Osprey's comments where by repeating stereotypes he lost the whole picture. I am sorry that you see all my comments as an attempt to force my opinion on somebody and not as an attempt to help seeing some things beyond stereotypes and from a wider angle.

wilecki.What is with you and WWI?I'm not interested in WWI, get that in your brain.Dont tell me whether I lost the whole picture or not, ou are not in my brain.Fine, I like WWI.Happy now? I like WWI, since my opinion obviously doesnt matter and you opinion is law.

[Titanwarrior89]

"The Boar War" Get it?[&:][X(][:D]

[wilecki]

To get this topic back on track:
I find WWII much more fascinating than WWI but that's something to do with the fact that my home country, Poland, suffered so much from WWII. Exactly the same emotional involvement Jackx mentioned above. I won't try to rationalize it otherwise.

For the most of my young life I have disliked napoleonic era wars. Somehow I thought that the idea of men in colorful uniforms fighting in the open field not bothering to duck from bullets was the biggest joke of those times. Now I know how silly this thought was and I am really interested in that era (trying to get my hands on this Chanlder book everybody is praising here).

As for the least fascinating it's the ancient times for me. I never really thought of it until now and the only explanation I can think of is that so little is left from those times and I mean stories, documents etc.

[wilecki]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

ORIGINAL: wilecki

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress




Like me I think Osprey was simply stating an opinion as a wargamer and military enthusiast that WWI is uninteresting relative to WWII or perhaps other wars. It's not a matter of "justice" or not thinking through. It's an opinion from a hobbyist. I've thought my comments through and I still think WWI is not an interesting war to game or read about-at least not as interesting as WWII.

I appreciate that in your opinion WWI was interesting. I don't see why everyone needs to hold the same opinion.

I never said that my opinion is the ultimate one, it ain't. I only wanted to answer Osprey's comments where by repeating stereotypes he lost the whole picture. I am sorry that you see all my comments as an attempt to force my opinion on somebody and not as an attempt to help seeing some things beyond stereotypes and from a wider angle.

wilecki.What is with you and WWI?I'm not interested in WWI, get that in your brain.Dont tell me whether I lost the whole picture or not, ou are not in my brain.Fine, I like WWI.Happy now? I like WWI, since my opinion obviously doesnt matter and you opinion is law.

You have to admit that with your first post you've narrowed a world war drastically to some witty comments. A world war. I really don't care if you like it or anybody else. I don't like it that much either. What I also addressed in my posts was your general surprise with people's reactions. As I've said I didn't want to force my opinion on anybody. Please read my posts carefully again.

The thread is about our personal likings. It's best not to try to rationalize them I guess.

Edited: And for the bit about loosing your whole picture, I apologize. I didn't want it to sound like this.