Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

[obvert]

For example you can use Ki-56s to invade Port Blair with paratroopers - but Ki-57's range is a hex short(from Bangkok).

That was the critical decision for me! And it worked out well. Plan on it again this game, unless he does something big there which I wouldn't expect.

[Mike Solli]

Here's something else to consider. I'll post my thoughts on airframe factory conversions:

F1M2 to H6K2-L (6) - Still pondering this one. You don't need many, but they do die from op losses....

Ki-27b (large factory) to Ki-32-Ic - discussed above

Ki-27b (small factory) to B5N1 - Nice plane. Many people prefer this to the B5N2. My thought is to build the factory to 12-15 and build them until the engines are gone (99 Nakajima Hikari). Only the Susie and Jean use that engine.

Ki-36 to the A6M2.

Ki-51 to the Ki-43-Ic.

Ki-56 to the L3Y2.


Also, the Hitachi Early (40) and Nakajima Kotobuki (25) engine factories are available for conversion.

There are 254 Nakajima Kotobuki engines in the pool. They are used only for the Claude, Dave and Nate. Some people build some Nates with them. I write these engines off. No more Nates for me. There are plenty for the training Sentai. One argument is that the Nates will be needed for replacements for the initial frontline Nate Sentai. I disagree. Build up the Oscar factories quickly (~128 within a month) and upgrade the Nates as you can. Use those Nates for replacements. If you use the Nates wisely, you shouldn't lose too many.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Erkki

For example you can use Ki-56s to invade Port Blair with paratroopers - but Ki-57's range is a hex short(from Bangkok). [;)]

I use the Tina -or- fly them from Victoria Pt.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Hmmm, again. I know the Dinah costs more, and there are a lot of almost as good Babs hanging around. I just thought that if I put it on this level and left it this would pretty much work throughout. The Topsy-II and later Nick KAIc use this engine, so I could turn it off if need be, but yes, that would still lose the initial build costs.

For the IJN Babs I've never built these. Should I? I'm out of factory slots, so I'd have to lose either speed building up Zeros, Sally IIa and Oscars (2 factories each), or change out something else. Maybe I could build some after building up the Tina pools for a few months.

Pax is right about the Dinah II. They are expensive and the Dinah I and Babs can function quite well in the recon role.

I would have only 1 Sally IIa factory, freeing one up.

I also forgot to mention the C5M2. My thought is to build out the B5N1s as quickly as I can and convert this factory to the C5M2. That is a concern of mine though. You only have a handful in the pool (7 I believe plus a couple reserve in one of the chutai). There are only 3 chutai of them but you don't get the Irving until November, 42. You will need some. I may increase the B5N1 to ~20-24 to build them out in ~5 months. Tough decision.

[obvert]

I'll have to go back through all of this and see what to do.

How critical is the supply issue in Scen 1? I usually just feel that I can send supply out in bulk early on to get things rolling everywhere. I really pump some into China usually to try to heal everything and be able to build forts and airfields up there.

Do I have to limit this?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: obvert

For the IJN Babs I've never built these. Should I? I'm out of factory slots, so I'd have to lose either speed building up Zeros, Sally IIa and Oscars (2 factories each), or change out something else. Maybe I could build some after building up the Tina pools for a few months.

Keep in mind that you begin the war with a 27 plane Tina daitai (starts with 25 aircraft) so you start out in the hole. You won't lose many but it's your longest ranged transport so it's nice to have it available for those long range missions.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'll have to go back through all of this and see what to do.

How critical is the supply issue in Scen 1? I usually just feel that I can send supply out in bulk early on to get things rolling everywhere. I really pump some into China usually to try to heal everything and be able to build forts and airfields up there.

Do I have to limit this?

I track supply daily. If you're conservative with your expansion, you shouldn't have a problem. Honshu produces 567k supply a month. I figure that no more than ~300k can be used for "stuff" a month. I'll allocate that 300k to various things to include, expansion, DEI oil center repairs, supplying the offensives, etc. I usually don't send any supply to China for the first few months at least. That's not my priority. First and foremost, the SRA needs to be liberated. China does what it can with what it has. I will push ~200k west at first opportunity. You'll need 150k minimum (over a 5 month period) to repair the Miri oil fields. So, Miri gets 30k of the 300k every month for the first 5 months. About 150k of the initial 200k push goes to Malaya. I have a plan to conquer Singapore by late January (ok, it's wishful thinking) but it will need additional supply.

Ok, so 300k is allocated for Dec 41 and 200k gets pushed west. That leaves 100k for all expansion for Dec 41. You take it from there. I actually keep record of my expenditures so I don't go overboard. I'll list what I want to do and prioritize it. When I run out of allocated supply, I'm done for the month. That's also why I usually expand just enough for that month. Why waste supply on expansion that is going to just sit until the next month to execute. After Dec 41, I usually reduce what I allocate for expansion to ~50k. I'd rather err on the side of caution. I've seen too many Japanese players implode their economy by Spring of 42.

[obvert]

Right. That is very good info. Tracker will help this time, although I think I did do well with the convoy system and use of resources and supply during the last game. I was building HI steadily at over 3,000 a month with armaments still on, (and I had a goal to switch off at 40,000 in the pool). My supply was growing in the Home Islands, even with the China dumps. I did push a bunch into Malaya as well, but hadn't started work on Miri yet. Now I know that will be more of a priority here in Scen 1.

I push a lot of supply into Babeldaob and throw all ships and units for use after a base is conquered so it's all read to go. A bunch of construction units go there on their way elsewhere and build it up quick as well.

In Japan I'll only build ports for convoy use. There is enough of everything else until later.

I'm really looking forward to this now. I think it will be a fun challenge after getting my feet wet with the easier system.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I track supply daily. ... I'd rather err on the side of caution. I've seen too many Japanese players implode their economy by Spring of 42.

+1

Particularly in Scen 1. Over expansion of your a/c factories will cause delays in your empire expansion during your Amphib bonus phase ... you can't afford that.

[obvert]

Philippine Islands

During the recent suspended game with Dan the focus was a quick and massive allocation of force to Malaya to take Singapore. We went in with around 3,900 AV and it looked to be about to crack through in late January. Palembang was also taken fairly early, and the PI were left battling in a stalemate at Clark with the hope of coming back for that part later.

To change things up, throw a little curveball, I was wondering about using the two divisions starting in Japan and the one in Singapore on Luzon. This might give 2,650 AV for Luzon. The question is, could we take it quickly with that much, by mid-to-late December, and get those units into the battle for Singapore by mid-January, hoping to take it just after the middle of February? Is this wishful thinking? Would it require the 38th from Hong Kong as well, which I'd hoped to use for Palembang in mid-December?

I don't want to get stuck in the PI with all of those troops until the end of Feb, but it seems if we brought enough we could take it out quickly before forts were built, then have extra units to use all over the DEI, including on Malaya. It's a big risk, but it could have a great pay-off if it works.

Then again, the PI are really not tenable for the Allies no matter what we do, so we could again attempt to contain with what is originally allocated and push all other units into Malaya and Palembang.

Any thoughts?

[nashvillen]

I am sure you are aware of this, but don't expect the A6M3 to fly off of carriers!

[Mike Solli]

Personally, once you destroy/drive out the USAAF in the Philippines and take the ports, that place is of no threat to you. I recommend you focus on the important bases, such as Singapore, Palembang, Soerabaja and Batavia, along with the oil producing bases. I think the concern you run into with the Philippines (I did this in my last game) is to put more force there than you need to invest it and bottle up the enemy troops in Bataan but not enough force to take it quickly. You have to do one or the other, but if you try to take it quickly, you need quite a bit of force because there is plenty of supply there for the Allied troops. Putting enough force there to take it quickly takes a lot of force away from Malaya. That ends up prolonging the battle for Singapore.

I would focus on Malaya and the other important ports while bottling up the Allied forces in the Philippines. If the Philippines holds out until March 42, who cares?

[obvert]

Personally, once you destroy/drive out the USAAF in the Philippines and take the ports, that place is of no threat to you. I recommend you focus on the important bases, such as Singapore, Palembang, Soerabaja and Batavia, along with the oil producing bases. I think the concern you run into with the Philippines (I did this in my last game) is to put more force there than you need to invest it and bottle up the enemy troops in Bataan but not enough force to take it quickly. You have to do one or the other, but if you try to take it quickly, you need quite a bit of force because there is plenty of supply there for the Allied troops. Putting enough force there to take it quickly takes a lot of force away from Malaya. That ends up prolonging the battle for Singapore.

I would focus on Malaya and the other important ports while bottling up the Allied forces in the Philippines. If the Philippines holds out until March 42, who cares?

That has been my thought so far in WITP. This game I thought that maybe because Scen 1 has less troops to do the job everywhere, hitting Luzon hard and quickly might free up those troops while the bonus was still in effect. There seems to be the period of two weeks after the Divs from Japan and Shanghai get to Malaya where they sit in strat mode waiting for the roads to open up. I though that two weeks could be used to take Luzon, then it would be useful and more troops could go into Malaya and Palembang. It's just a massive risk that they'll get stuck.

I guess the question really is do I want to play it safe, and do the most prudent thing, or do I want to have a high-risk and potentially more potent opening force? And the practical question is how much would it take to wipe Luzon in three weeks (after landing the extra Divs, so by early Jan)? 2,600 AV? 3,000 AV?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

I am sure you are aware of this, but don't expect the A6M3 to fly off of carriers!

_____________________________

I will most likely skip that version and research the A6M3a and A6M5 heavily. Doesn't make sense to me to use the A6M3 if I still have to be building the A6M2 for the CVs anyway, and it's not much better except for high sweeps.

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Personally, once you destroy/drive out the USAAF in the Philippines and take the ports, that place is of no threat to you. I recommend you focus on the important bases, such as Singapore, Palembang, Soerabaja and Batavia, along with the oil producing bases. I think the concern you run into with the Philippines (I did this in my last game) is to put more force there than you need to invest it and bottle up the enemy troops in Bataan but not enough force to take it quickly. You have to do one or the other, but if you try to take it quickly, you need quite a bit of force because there is plenty of supply there for the Allied troops. Putting enough force there to take it quickly takes a lot of force away from Malaya. That ends up prolonging the battle for Singapore.

I would focus on Malaya and the other important ports while bottling up the Allied forces in the Philippines. If the Philippines holds out until March 42, who cares?

That has been my thought so far in WITP. This game I thought that maybe because Scen 1 has less troops to do the job everywhere, hitting Luzon hard and quickly might free up those troops while the bonus was still in effect. There seems to be the period of two weeks after the Divs from Japan and Shanghai get to Malaya where they sit in strat mode waiting for the roads to open up. I though that two weeks could be used to take Luzon, then it would be useful and more troops could go into Malaya and Palembang. It's just a massive risk that they'll get stuck.

I guess the question really is do I want to play it safe, and do the most prudent thing, or do I want to have a high-risk and potentially more potent opening force? And the practical question is how much would it take to wipe Luzon in three weeks (after landing the extra Divs, so by early Jan)? 2,600 AV? 3,000 AV?

Do you want to risk facing a Festung Palembang strategy or not? If not, using those troops in Malaya might a better idea... And if they're in combat mode on amphibious TFs you can always divert them, even invade with them somewhere as soon as you get the CV cover from Philippine Sea.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Erkki

ORIGINAL: obvert

Personally, once you destroy/drive out the USAAF in the Philippines and take the ports, that place is of no threat to you. I recommend you focus on the important bases, such as Singapore, Palembang, Soerabaja and Batavia, along with the oil producing bases. I think the concern you run into with the Philippines (I did this in my last game) is to put more force there than you need to invest it and bottle up the enemy troops in Bataan but not enough force to take it quickly. You have to do one or the other, but if you try to take it quickly, you need quite a bit of force because there is plenty of supply there for the Allied troops. Putting enough force there to take it quickly takes a lot of force away from Malaya. That ends up prolonging the battle for Singapore.

I would focus on Malaya and the other important ports while bottling up the Allied forces in the Philippines. If the Philippines holds out until March 42, who cares?

That has been my thought so far in WITP. This game I thought that maybe because Scen 1 has less troops to do the job everywhere, hitting Luzon hard and quickly might free up those troops while the bonus was still in effect. There seems to be the period of two weeks after the Divs from Japan and Shanghai get to Malaya where they sit in strat mode waiting for the roads to open up. I though that two weeks could be used to take Luzon, then it would be useful and more troops could go into Malaya and Palembang. It's just a massive risk that they'll get stuck.

I guess the question really is do I want to play it safe, and do the most prudent thing, or do I want to have a high-risk and potentially more potent opening force? And the practical question is how much would it take to wipe Luzon in three weeks (after landing the extra Divs, so by early Jan)? 2,600 AV? 3,000 AV?

Do you want to risk facing a Festung Palembang strategy or not? If not, using those troops in Malaya might a better idea... And if they're in combat mode on amphibious TFs you can always divert them, even invade with them somewhere as soon as you get the CV cover from Philippine Sea.

I'm not too worried about the fortress Palembang. I think it's a big risk for the Allies and means they stand to lose a good amount of the troops committed there. The reason I'm asking about the AV necessary to take Luzon quickly is that I'd like to use the 38th Div to take Palembang early, mostly because this splits the defense of the DEI, and makes it tougher to control the seas around Singapore and Borneo. It's also good to get it before lots of forts have been built and engineers moved in. But as CR showed, 300 AV could be there by Dec 15, and 500 AV by Jan easily.

If, (and it's a big if), Luzon could be taken by Jan 5-10, then ALL of those 2,500-3,000 AV would be available to deal with anything the Allies are cooking up.

[Erkki]

You'll need 3500+ AV to take Luzon quickly, 1-1½ months... You need 3x or more AV to break Clark Field which is forest+rough, and the Allies can withdraw at minimum 1000 AV there before you can get there. If they can retreat in order, they might be able to get 1500 there behind forts 2 or 3 and because you play Scen 1 and not DaBabes, you cant outflank them either.

[obvert]

Yeah, this is basically what I was thinking from my experience with it, and it sounds too risky to go for that to begin. I think I'll push it all to Malaya and a quick Palembang, if possible, and then come back for the PI. I just feel having read my recent AAR about that, my opponent may put a twist in the defense and make it tougher to push the troops to Clark. I may have to have a Division in reserve this time just in case.

[desicat]

I have often looked at the map and wondered what Japan could threaten that the Allies would really contest, I mean to the bitter end.

I can only come up with the Hawaiian Island chain and China. An assault on HI would force the US Navy to commit in a major manner, but I don't think it is a reasonable objective. China is a lofty goal, but the commitment of assets required (if even possible) don't play to Japans strengths. I have gamed a massive commitment of air power into China in attempts to remove them from the War...only worth trying if you are looking for something different.

Japan can still go for the initial expansion but the early attrition of British air is sacrificed.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: desicat

I have often looked at the map and wondered what Japan could threaten that the Allies would really contest, I mean to the bitter end.

I can only come up with the Hawaiian Island chain and China. An assault on HI would force the US Navy to commit in a major manner, but I don't think it is a reasonable objective. China is a lofty goal, but the commitment of assets required (if even possible) don't play to Japans strengths. I have gamed a massive commitment of air power into China in attempts to remove them from the War...only worth trying if you are looking for something different.

Japan can still go for the initial expansion but the early attrition of British air is sacrificed.

It's interesting that you think China as well. If the Allies were to contest China as forcefully as they were able, I would think British air would be very involved. When I play Allies I generally bring in a good bit of British air especially for light bombing and recon (Lysanders). The 4Es could reach many spots from India as well.

In Scen 1 it's much tougher to allocate enough air to China right away. Interestingly my opponent says he never really gives China much consideration, so that could bode well for getting a good head start there.

Hawaii, based on some tests in a recent thread, seems almost impossible to invade completely. I wouldn't even try. I might go for Johnston Is, Midway Is, the Line Islands, and other mid-Pacific areas to squash early Allied development in those areas. But i most likely won't in this game. I might go forth an conquer, but then just pull out and set up a good defensive line.