Sphere of Influence suggestion

[Torgrim]

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

Since we're all giving our opinions, I'll go with the majority: Spheres are good! Personally, I like them as-is. They are easily one of the best reasons to buy the Legends expansion.

Opinions are always welcomed but I wonder why you like blobs and not real territory system?

[MasterChief]

I have to throw my two cents in for SoI's. They are a fantastic addition and I am glad to see that Erik and Elliot will be looking into tweeking them. I love the "flavor" they add to the game but I would like to see a little more "teeth" added to them... "You have entered my territory-- get out" type stuff. Guess growing up with Star Trek, I long for those ...we are crossing into the neutral zone... moments!

I would love to see SoI's play a bigger role in diplomacy... something along the lines of "Pride of Nations" diplomatic crisis.

[Erik Rutins]

Just to put everyone at ease, one of the things we're considering for Spheres of Influence is a setting that allows you to adjust their strength or weakness to your liking.

Regards,

- Erik

[J HG T]

I was on the fence about the border/soi system, but I have to say I like it a lot now that I've played the Legends for a while.
Before Legends the empires could get really messed up when everybody colonized and built everywhere. It was absolutely chaotic at times, and that comes from a person that loved the game even without the borders.
The border/soi system still needs some small adjustments, but It's great that it was introduced in the Legends

[WiZz]

A big tread about SoI and my opinion of its tweaking...
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[Nedrear]

A slider for the scale is good - including "none", let the whiners see the RotS in full... muhaha - and will most likely calm about 60% of the people.
Still that leaves the "growth" issue of the sphere.

And I for one would support a neutral zone at SoI clash zones! Maybe you can get these through treaties?

[Grotius]

Just to put everyone at ease, one of the things we're considering for Spheres of Influence is a setting that allows you to adjust their strength or weakness to your liking.

Sounds good to me.

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Just to put everyone at ease, one of the things we're considering for Spheres of Influence is a setting that allows you to adjust their strength or weakness to your liking.

Regards,

- Erik

I very much hope so and that strength setting should make new colonies SOI faster.

I am getting the same issues with colony spread as in the DW release.When I see an empire from the other side of the galaxy start their second or third colony near my space and see the freighters trying to supply it I want to turn the game off and play SOTS,MOO2 or Armada.Games with sensible clear border expansion based on range or fuel.

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: sbach2o
Honestly: This is a feature where you simply cannot please everyone. Personally I find the idea of territory in deep space that extends beyond the boundaries of a single system ridiculous!

Last time I checked the game has FTL space navies that can travel the whole galaxy in a month and hence can detect and intercept quickly..

Also most sci shows and 4x games seem to like it to.

[Harry2]

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

The "I can't steal land unless in war" factor with the borders is completly logical. No country would accept other nations to claim their territory, especially not if worthy ressoruces are involved.

Logical, yes if you have the strength to contest it. Logical as well (though infuriating), to ignore such incursions if the situation warrants it.

Besides, its "stealing" only if most parties recognize the ownership... but that's the problem here. Most parties do not recognize the ownership, or else have no stake in the matter, but ownership of a vast volume of space has been arbitraily granted to an empire by some powerful, unseen Authority (Deus ex Machina).

Its as if there really is some supreme organization above all the empires that grants ownerships of entire star systems without consultation.

"The Royal Terran Empire signed no such Understandings and do not recognize any such claims to systems outside the atmosphere of the newly established colony!"

The SoI needs to be :
Scaled back significantly in scope, preferably with an effects slider as as Eric has indicated
Based on more criteria than simply the colony development.

I find that the more of Legends that I play the more the current implementation of the SoI irks me. Its a shame really, went so much of the rest of Legends is so well done.

[Bison36]

I actually like the SOI as implemented. Now if I could get my pesky neighbors to stop building mines in the systems that are by rights mine to colonize....

[Gelatinous Cube]

Seriously... tell me this isn't much better than pre-borders?

Dumb Link to a picture of VERY GOOD BORDERS Because Free Hosting Websites Won't Let You Direct Link Without a Membership Anymore

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

Seriously... tell me this isn't much better than pre-borders?

Dumb Link to a picture of VERY GOOD BORDERS Because Free Hosting Websites Won't Let You Direct Link Without a Membership Anymore

That screenshots illustrates the topic post pretty well about the new colonies SOI hardly getting any bigger.

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

Seriously... tell me this isn't much better than pre-borders?

Dumb Link to a picture of VERY GOOD BORDERS Because Free Hosting Websites Won't Let You Direct Link Without a Membership Anymore

That screenshots illustrates the topic post pretty well about the new colonies SOI hardly getting any bigger.

To be fair, this is a game with 19 random empires, and abundant colonies. Also, it's only 2780. The colonization phase isn't even over yet. Right now, the galaxy has settled into some obviously "Core" Empire zones, and a whole bunch of "Up for grabs" colonization zones. Wars are being fought over it. This seems fairly reasonable, considering in another ten years or so I'll have over 25 planets at 1000M+ Population, which provides a big enough influence boost to concentrate the colors a bit.

I do think Influence could stand to be increased for new colonies, but I don't think it's that bad. The fact that borders seem to get better the closer together potential colonies are, is pretty telling. If you want to see the borders at absolute full effect, try a game at 10x10 with 1400 Stars and Abundant colony prevelance.

[hal9000]

A thing I'd like to see introduced would be a maximum colonization range, because I think the two reasons that maps get so messy are 1) the trading of galaxy maps and the subsequent ai rush for every empty planet no matter how distant it is and 2) that volcano and ice races have a monopoly on their planet types till late game and don't care much about how far spread out their colonies are.
Europa Universalis had that well done e.g., there your colonization range would increase with your technological advance and I think it would also be easy to make this as an adjustable setting.

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: hal9000

A thing I'd like to see introduced would be a maximum colonization range, because I think the two reasons that maps get so messy are 1) the trading of galaxy maps and the subsequent ai rush for every empty planet no matter how distant it is and 2) that volcano and ice races have a monopoly on their planet types till late game and don't care much about how far spread out their colonies are.
Europa Universalis had that well done e.g., there your colonization range would increase with your technological advance and I think it would also be easy to make this as an adjustable setting.

Even something as simple as Armada's method would be good. Just an overlay that shows how far out you can sustain colonies.

[feelotraveller]

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

Seriously... tell me this isn't much better than pre-borders?

Dumb Link to a picture of VERY GOOD BORDERS Because Free Hosting Websites Won't Let You Direct Link Without a Membership Anymore

Off topic: You could try photobucket. As of a day or two ago I'm still direct linking without any membership.

On topic: I don't see a huge problem with far flung colonies. Other than the fact that they are just asking for a quick invasion to sort out the situation. [;)]

[Malevolence]

I like the spheres but I don't like the arbitrary rules imposed by the game. who's to say I can't drop a mining station inside someone else's sphere if I want. if you're strong enough to remove it go ahead and try. the brinksmanship and escalation is missing given the rules and insistance on total war or total peace.

[Torgrim]

ORIGINAL: hal9000

A thing I'd like to see introduced would be a maximum colonization range, because I think the two reasons that maps get so messy are 1) the trading of galaxy maps and the subsequent ai rush for every empty planet no matter how distant it is and 2) that volcano and ice races have a monopoly on their planet types till late game and don't care much about how far spread out their colonies are.
Europa Universalis had that well done e.g., there your colonization range would increase with your technological advance and I think it would also be easy to make this as an adjustable setting.

Yes colonizing range is very much needed, I always get a little hurt inside when I see AI Empire have colonies all over the map just because there is no range limit for colonizing planets.

[MasterChief]

ORIGINAL: Torgrim

ORIGINAL: hal9000

A thing I'd like to see introduced would be a maximum colonization range, because I think the two reasons that maps get so messy are 1) the trading of galaxy maps and the subsequent ai rush for every empty planet no matter how distant it is and 2) that volcano and ice races have a monopoly on their planet types till late game and don't care much about how far spread out their colonies are.
Europa Universalis had that well done e.g., there your colonization range would increase with your technological advance and I think it would also be easy to make this as an adjustable setting.

Yes colonizing range is very much needed, I always get a little hurt inside when I see AI Empire have colonies all over the map just because there is no range limit for colonizing planets.

Hmmm... this brings up an interesting possibility.

First - I don’t agree with limiting colonization limit. If your fuel allows for long rang colonization then it should be allowed. Examples in history include the ancient Phoenicians and Greeks who colonized to the extreme limits of their technology (and yes this made for some messy boarders and diplomacy).

However, there should be tradeoffs. Besides an increase in maintenance, colonies at extreme range should be more susceptible to rebellion and establishing independent colonies (Ancient Carthage and the not so ancient USA are great examples) [;)]

So before chartering that colony ship you would need to consider if it is worth the extra money, naval and troop presence and governor character assignment that would be needed to keep the colony in the empire.