DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (Game Over - Open Thread)

[timmyab]

You're doing well.The pros have a game on their hands I think.Have you got any other screens?
I'm doing the same thing with FBD 2 and 3.My FBD 4 goes Daugavpils Pskov though.That way you get an early AGN/AGC rail link and the network is more partisan proof.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

You're doing well.The pros have a game on their hands I think.Have you got any other screens?
I'm doing the same thing with FBD 2 and 3.My FBD 4 goes Daugavpils Pskov though.That way you get an early AGN/AGC rail link and the network is more partisan proof.

That was my approach as well. You don't really need to supply anything though Estonia anyway.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 8[/center]

In the South the Pro's retreat 10 hexes a turn only to see my panzers gobble up the empty hexes allowing the infantry to follow. We did get 5 cities though: Odessa, Kirvoi Rog, Kirvgorad, Nikoleav, and Chernigov.All undefended!

We pushed/trapped 2 divisions out of Odessa and 2 divisions near Chernigov. Uneventful turn.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 8[/center]

In the Center it was starting to look formidable. The Pro's hugged the east of the high Dnepr and had a solid line developing. Luckily the 4th and 9th armies were moved to the front last turn which allowed me to open up the North half of his line and pocket 7 healthy divisions. I almost had 8 but it was either a solid pocket with 7 or a loose pocket with 8. I seriously doubt he can break this one. I'm almost to Rzhev!!!

In the Southern half the 2nd Army gobbles up empty hexes but puts the bulk of its weight on the Southern half. Im hoping to push an envelopment which will now be assisted by the return of the XXIV pz Corps (I'm considering leasing another pz Corps from 1st PG to 2nd. The Pro's are giving the southern player a lot of strength to make it enjoyable for him. I may just make the Southern front dormant and drive in the Center.

Finally, Smolensk was surrendered without a fight??? Even when isolated a single ID can put out enough CV to make a light urban hex a pain. A horrible mistake (albeit with limited consequences but still) I'd never do this as a Russian.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 8[/center]

Now for a couple of DV's pointers.

- Learn to maximize your withdrawing divisions/SU's. For example: The Finns have a lot of units withdraw early on. Set the divisions to 75% TOE and the withdrawing SU's to 50% (SU's withdraw regardless of strength according to the manual). Use these to cause attrition and build forts while your permanent divisions rest in the rear. Always keep track of when your units start withdrawing. If they withdraw above 75% TOE than that excess material disappears into a vacuum. As an axis player every bit helps.

- I always spend appx 50 of my AP's early on moving a lot of construction crews back to the AG's. I keep a couple with each Corps but strip the armies of all of them. The AG HQ's remain stationary and thus deploy dozens of repair crews to start converting rail early on. This helps prevent a crippling partisan attack and build multiple back up rails. Once the rails are complete (post 42) you can either stack your construction guys in Corps for faster fort building, assign them directly to FZ's, or disband them to free the manpower. Don't do the latter though until your manpower is gone.

Back to my turn: I did in fact get 1 nasty hold this turn. 6 divisions attacked 2 and got 2 reserves which caused over a 1k losses. Overall though we cleared the swamp belt north of Novgorod and can pivot either North or drive east and clear the Volkhov river.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 10[/center]

Overall the drive has slowed but not stopped. Turn 10 has seen infantry move up, rails move up, and the Soviets move further away. The main action is near Leningrad and Rhvez.

I made what, in my opinion, was a risky maneuver near Leningrad. Some might not find it super risky but basically I saw that I had Leningrad in the bag fairly easy and so I decided to up the odds. If you look at the map East of Leningrad you see that Tivkin is basically the main rail junction that feeds the entire Leningrad/Karelia area. I diverted all of 16th army and 4th pz to push east of the Volhov and drive towards Tivkin. If I can sever that rail line it will set back KArelia's rail head by about 20-25 hexes of heavy woods and swamp. It will also sever push the rail head way far back for Leningrad's defenders. This will put an enormous strain on the PRO's truck fleet and reduce efficiency for all the Northern Fronts. In fact, if someone wanted to exploit the engine, they could leave a very long narrow supply corridor to wreck the Red truck fleet. I will not do this but it is a possible exploit in this single dimensional supply system. I hope that 4th pz can sever all of KArelia in about 2-3 turns and trap between 40-50 divisions. All remaining reinforcements are being sent north.

The 18th army remains West of the Volkhov (for now) and continues to push to Lake Ladoga.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 10[/center]

The center Front has slowed as well but next turn should present some opportunities. T9 saw me isolate 4 divisions but the pocket was busted open. This turn I simply resealed the pocket and routed them out. The terrain of the area and horrible mp rolls didn't leave me a lot of choice. I wanted my rear area secure so I let the fish rout out. This turn I have pulled 5 tank divisions off the line to refit a few hexes back. I hope now that rails are a lot closer and my infantry are at the front that I can rip open a pocket and wreak havoc on Sillyflower. I can either use the panzer groups together to attack Vyazma, or split them up the form mini pockets near bryansk and Rhzev.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 10[/center]

In the South its basically been run away my sweet darling. Sean has yet to meet a fight he couldn't run away from. I think the two have coordinated and, realizing that my main impetus is in the North, have played the strategy of run away in the South and reinforce the North. At first they were giving the south more units than it needed but after my impressive drive they changed plans. This is just a hypothesis.

This turn I didn't push my tanks too far I simply positioned them for next turn and let the infantry move up. I did use my motor divisions to flip empty hexes but a rather uneventful turn in the South. Overall I hope to drive Sean to the Don and create a rather impressive blizzard buffer.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 12[/center]

Here is the picture of AGN. Apparently Sillyflower realized the danger approaching and just abandoned Leningrad a bit early. From here I just kept pushing everything east of the Volkhov and drive towards Tivkin. At the end of 12 I have enough mp's to sack Tivkin and sever the railhead feeding KArelia. The defense line east of Lake Janisari is abandoned and a pocket is forming. Right now I have a ZOC lock on about 12 divisions and hope to pin them against Lake Ladoga. Whether this pocket is realize or not I will turn 4th Panzer South afterwards to strike behind the Valdai region and capture this region as a Blizzard buffer.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 12[/center]

Here in the center I get my first crippling rail attack. I sent my FBD guy back to fix it. Maybe the automated rail guys would have fixed it this turn, maybe not, couldn't take that chance.

Otherwise I form a decent pocket North of Rhzev and a small pocket further to the South. I made a breakthrough with the 2nd PZ north of Vyazma but was happy with just smashing the forts and pulling back to safety. Even if he occupies the hexes again I've weakened his position here. Both pz divisions from next turn will be going to group Center along with Das Reich returning from AGS.

I have to admit though, I am worried about my fate next turn. my 4th army and 2nd pz have weak flanks in the Center. Sillyflower sent me a menacing email promising me he dealt with my breakthrough and something about clear terrain. I never with guy but I'm kind of scared. I loaded my save and realized I might have half of AGC isolated next turn...who knows.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 12[/center]

Here in the South Belphegor runs away..nothing new here. He has left a small detachment in Sebastopol and is just out of reach. Being that my rail is around 20 hexes away I am resting my tank divisions, sending extra units north, and am coordinating my future attacks towards FBD 5 near Z-Town. I have no ambition to do anything but return the favor to Belphegor when Blizzard comes. Most of the South will be abandoned. I should be able to sack the Tri-City region this summer but I doubt I will take Rostov.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]K/D Ratio end of T12[/center]

Not too bad considering that the Pro's have retreated everywhere. Although I doubt they will all hold I have 8 Rifle, 2 Cavalry, 1 Motor, and 1 Tank division pocketed this turn. I'm anxiously awaiting my turn back to see recent developments.

[smokindave34]

1.3 million captured through 12 turns is very good progress! You seem to be in pretty good shape DV however I agree you should be worrred about the flanks of 4th/2nd panzer armies. If Sillyflower sneaks one cavalry division through there he could put your progress on hold for a turn.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

1.3 million captured through 12 turns is very good progress! You seem to be in pretty good shape DV however I agree you should be worried about the flanks of 4th/2nd panzer armies. If Sillyflower sneaks one cavalry division through there he could put your progress on hold for a turn.

Yah I'm not going to lie I'm pretty apprehensive about getting my turn back. Sillyflower sent me an email teasing me about leaving my flanks open to clear terrain. The turn is currently with Sean. However, I don't think he can isolate the 2 armies but I think he can rout the Pz Group's HQ's which will basically stall the mech units like you said. Next turn the rail should be repaired and AGC will receive the Spaniard's, the 2nd and 5th pz division, and Das Reich from the South. 4th Pz will be able to help out come turns 15-17 also. If I can score one more huge encirclement before Blizzard that should dissipate his Blizzard O.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 15 - BEFORE MOVES - NORTH[/center]

This turn I am planning my remaining moves with painstaking detail. The Pro's have stopped running and are holding a line with their hopped up high morale infantry. I still need another big blow to dissipate their Blizzard O and keep the line moving East. Right now I am not in win the war planning but rather survive the Blizzard planning. Luckily I have pushed the line far to the East and with 4th Pz freed up I should be able to seriously threaten (but not capture) Moscow.

Here in the North my main drive ended with frustration. If you remember from T12 I tried to pin his entire front between Lake Ladoga and the Finns. Unfortunately, high mp rolls allowed him to break my ZOC lock and get the entire front out of harms way. The good side was that nearly 30 divisions were right up near the KArelian border and out of AGN's way. Thus I simply pivoted SE and thrashed the seem of his Fronts. We now have the Valdai region and isolated 10 divisions and 2 brigades. A much needed victory.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 15 - BEFORE GERMAN MOVES - CENTER[/center]

AGC has faced the bulk of the Red Army and has been desperately short of divisions. While we can slowly push the beast back we have been unable to finish off the bulk of high morale infantry in front of Moscow. 3rd Pz and 9th army tried for 2 turns to isolate the same five divisions only to have the tables turned both times. Last turn the 3rd pz was totally isolated. This with the AGC rail being cut led to a complete waste of turn. Luckily at the end of T 14 we repaired the rail, isolated the 5 divisions, and managed to pull some of my near depleted mech units back to safety for refit. MP rolls for 3rd pz are still too low for any major action this turn. My options as I see it:

1- Use the additional pressure of AGN to push a Typhoon style encirclement just east of Vyazma. This will be a risky adventure as it is taking 3:1 odds on deliberate attack to knock these Russian infantry out. And even then I get a hold 1:5 times. I might end up just hammering Russian units and no encirclement. Remember, Sillyflower's infantry are strong enough to punch through any weak encirclement.

2- Turn the Pz groups to the flanks of Moscow to flip easy hexes and destroy rails. We could possibly encircle as many as a dozen units each side. While this would be less conclusive it has a much lower risk factor. I'm really thinking this over.

Pocket consists of 4 understrength infantry and 1 cavalry division.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 15 - BEFORE GERMAN MOVES - SOUTH[/center]

The Southern Front is becoming increasingly difficult. Sean's retreat has slowed and I have robbed the South of any reinforcements. That and the Crimea campaign has slowed AGS so much that I have to concentrate the bulk of my strength to make a successful push. Last turn I bashed up a number of units and isolated 3 Rifle divisions. I hope to drive him to the Don and capture the Tri-City region.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 15 - THE CRIMEA[/center]

The crimea always brings about a lot of diversity of opinion regarding axis players. Some go for it..some completely ignore it. Luckily for the axis players in this game the threat of Romanian oil being bombed is null. For that matter has any axis player ever had a fuel shortage? I've never experienced or read about one ever. Anyway..the only real benefit I see in the Crimea is a pro-active defensive move. I like to capture it so the Russians can't flank AGS during Blizzard. This is the only reason I am investing in it right now. Luckily Sean has flat out left a ridiculously weak garrison so I went for the city. I advise clearing the Crimea even if you leave Sebatopol alone just to rip up the rails and create a buffer to absorb most of December. Come January, if you build up forts at the throat of the Crimea, you should be able to contain any Russian attacks from this region. Note that I am also fortifying the Crimean isthmus'.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]CRIMEAN AFTERMATH[/center]

As the Title says: Aftermath.

Although I am pleasantly relieved at the stunning success of Hansen's LIV Corps and Kortzfleisch's XI Corps of their awesome attack I also wish I knew it would have fallen so easy. I redirected 3 additional infantry divisions, 1 Flieger Division, 3 Romanian divisions, and all of V FliegerKorps before the assault. These units will miss this turn and will likely be out of action for next turn too.I figured this assault would be lucky to lower the fort a couple of layers and it would take at least 2 turns to dislodge the pesky port. IMO Sean made a crucial mistake in not investing heavily in Sebatopol. Had he left 3 divisions instead of 1 division and 2 brigades..it would take 3-4 turns to collapse the city.

All my divisions has 2 pioneers and 1 Stug attached and the Corps artillery and Flak support was tremendous. An excellent score for 41.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 17 - NORTH FRONT[/center]

In the North I faced a disappointing empty bag with the Leningrad/Lake Ladoga area. Every single unit I hoped to trap there escaped. However, most of these units were out of position to do anything on T15 so when all of AGN turned hard SE we split a major hole in the line that only mud will fix for the Pro's. T 15 we bagged about 15 divisions total in the North and Turns 16 and 17 we have blasted a huge gap North of Moscow and isolated a few small units.

I should note that one Corps of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th PzGP received a HQBU on T16 to launch a grand finale for the summer. Had I more clear turns I have no doubt that I could have encircled Moscow this turn but would not have had enough troops to seal the pocket and hold it during mud. Could have went very bad so I settled on smaller pockets.