Concept - Allied Aircraft 'Purchases'

[LargeSlowTarget]

Now slap me silly - never scrolled far enough down in the weapons slots of a convoy to see that from slot 2000 onwards there are airframes that can be assigned. Interesting...

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

One other thing to take into account, the issue with politics and releasing planes. Hawaii air command was actually forced to give up some of its B-17's to south pacific for patrol duty, this was only done when the head of the joint chiefs ordered the planes released. From what I have read in the AAF history, it was never entertained to release planes from the west coast squadrons. I think we can all agree that if things truly went south for the forces fighting in the pacific, the US might have held squadrons due to deploy to europe back to give to the pacific theater but how many and what would be the triggers would be days of arguments. [:)]

As you indicate above...would the hypothetical held back planes intended for Europe even be allowed to deploy away from the West Coast if things truly went south?

[John 3rd]

Juan:

Considering the other thread running about Allied airframe issues, would you be willing to try and import your ideas into a Babes 29c base scenario that I could then use as a springboard for my new Mod work. I am more then willing to give this concept a try.
John

[JuanG]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Juan:

Considering the other thread running about Allied airframe issues, would you be willing to try and import your ideas into a Babes 29c base scenario that I could then use as a springboard for my new Mod work. I am more then willing to give this concept a try.
John

Will do. I'll set up the 5 bases like in the original example and put one 'example' airgroup in along with its leader.

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Now slap me silly - never scrolled far enough down in the weapons slots of a convoy to see that from slot 2000 onwards there are airframes that can be assigned. Interesting...

Yepperino !! If one adds 2000 to the slot number of an airplane, it can become a "device". A B-17E device is 2285 [:)]

[PaxMondo]

Juan,

I can tell you that this will work. I've been doing something similar to this in my mod. I never thought to create new off-map bases like you did though. I was using Port Stanley for the purpose and putting all of the convoys there. Your solution is far better.

I also have not been able to get planes to arrive without pilots, what I do is set the exp of the groups to 10. That basically puts the pilots to the trash bin.

I also had not come up with your idea of using created leaders to force the PP expenditure. Brilliant. I was using an outboard system to keep track of the expenditures and using VP's instead.

This looks really good and you've taken it really far. When are you going to be able to post the pwhex file for us? [:D]

Brilliant work!

[&o][&o][&o]

[JuanG]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Juan,

I can tell you that this will work. I've been doing something similar to this in my mod. I never thought to create new off-map bases like you did though. I was using Port Stanley for the purpose and putting all of the convoys there. Your solution is far better.

I also have not been able to get planes to arrive without pilots, what I do is set the exp of the groups to 10. That basically puts the pilots to the trash bin.

I also had not come up with your idea of using created leaders to force the PP expenditure. Brilliant. I was using an outboard system to keep track of the expenditures and using VP's instead.

This looks really good and you've taken it really far. When are you going to be able to post the pwhex file for us? [:D]

Brilliant work!

[&o][&o][&o]

Should have this ready in a few hours - the best bit is that it actually does not require pwhex changes. The only things needed are the appropriate additions to the locations file (for the bases themselves) as well as the changed map artwork. The only downside to this approach appears to be that one cannot directly click on the bases on the map and must instead use the airgroups menu. Not a big deal in my opinion.

Now, technically one could flip these hexes in the pwhex to be part of some offmap area, but the few experiments I ran with this didn't work out so well and in most cases allowed the aircraft to transfer somewhere, etc. which is undesirable.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: JuanG

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Juan,

I can tell you that this will work. I've been doing something similar to this in my mod. I never thought to create new off-map bases like you did though. I was using Port Stanley for the purpose and putting all of the convoys there. Your solution is far better.

I also have not been able to get planes to arrive without pilots, what I do is set the exp of the groups to 10. That basically puts the pilots to the trash bin.

I also had not come up with your idea of using created leaders to force the PP expenditure. Brilliant. I was using an outboard system to keep track of the expenditures and using VP's instead.

This looks really good and you've taken it really far. When are you going to be able to post the pwhex file for us? [:D]

Brilliant work!

[&o][&o][&o]

Should have this ready in a few hours - the best bit is that it actually does not require pwhex changes. The only things needed are the appropriate additions to the locations file (for the bases themselves) as well as the changed map artwork. The only downside to this approach appears to be that one cannot directly click on the bases on the map and must instead use the airgroups menu. Not a big deal in my opinion.

Now, technically one could flip these hexes in the pwhex to be part of some offmap area, but the few experiments I ran with this didn't work out so well and in most cases allowed the aircraft to transfer somewhere, etc. which is undesirable.

If you hover the mouse over the off map bases will it at least show what groups are there? Or is the air groups menu the only way to access this info?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: JuanG

... but the few experiments I ran with this didn't work out so well and in most cases allowed the aircraft to transfer somewhere, etc. which is undesirable.

Ahh, that makes sense. It is part of what makes Port Stanley for me so-so. I like your solution better because I think I can get it to work for an AI game. Yes, it will require me to play a turn as the "AI" to cut lose some of the reinforcements, but that is ok for me. I do that periodically in my games anyway to help it out of ruts.

Looking forward to the files and being able to "play" with them.

THANKS!!! Just a great job here ....

[JuanG]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: JuanG

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Juan,

I can tell you that this will work. I've been doing something similar to this in my mod. I never thought to create new off-map bases like you did though. I was using Port Stanley for the purpose and putting all of the convoys there. Your solution is far better.

I also have not been able to get planes to arrive without pilots, what I do is set the exp of the groups to 10. That basically puts the pilots to the trash bin.

I also had not come up with your idea of using created leaders to force the PP expenditure. Brilliant. I was using an outboard system to keep track of the expenditures and using VP's instead.

This looks really good and you've taken it really far. When are you going to be able to post the pwhex file for us? [:D]

Brilliant work!

[&o][&o][&o]

Should have this ready in a few hours - the best bit is that it actually does not require pwhex changes. The only things needed are the appropriate additions to the locations file (for the bases themselves) as well as the changed map artwork. The only downside to this approach appears to be that one cannot directly click on the bases on the map and must instead use the airgroups menu. Not a big deal in my opinion.

Now, technically one could flip these hexes in the pwhex to be part of some offmap area, but the few experiments I ran with this didn't work out so well and in most cases allowed the aircraft to transfer somewhere, etc. which is undesirable.

If you hover the mouse over the off map bases will it at least show what groups are there? Or is the air groups menu the only way to access this info?

Yes, it will. You just have to use the bases/airgroups menus to access them.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: JuanG

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: JuanG




Should have this ready in a few hours - the best bit is that it actually does not require pwhex changes. The only things needed are the appropriate additions to the locations file (for the bases themselves) as well as the changed map artwork. The only downside to this approach appears to be that one cannot directly click on the bases on the map and must instead use the airgroups menu. Not a big deal in my opinion.

Now, technically one could flip these hexes in the pwhex to be part of some offmap area, but the few experiments I ran with this didn't work out so well and in most cases allowed the aircraft to transfer somewhere, etc. which is undesirable.

If you hover the mouse over the off map bases will it at least show what groups are there? Or is the air groups menu the only way to access this info?

Yes, it will. You just have to use the bases/airgroups menus to access them.

Then it doesn't seem like much of a big deal to me either. In fact since you're dealing with reinforcements and replacements it seems more appropriate to use the menus to access them. This idea is getting better and better. Also, not having to mess with PWHex makes it relatively easy to implement. Once again, GREAT IDEA!! [&o]

EDIT: Since dabbling with art is a preoccupation of mine, I would get rid of the grass texture on the "reserve" bases. Since we're really not dealing with any kind of actual base, nor even a single base for that matter as these "bases" represent entire countries' stockpiles, I would use some sort of special hex to denote where the player can go to check on his reserves. It should be a sort of "dashboard" feature, almost like part of the GUI. Just some random thoughts. Something like the below might be a nifty idea to start with...

[GaryChildress]

Or maybe something like this.

[JuanG]

This is the texture they currently have. Its a simple striped dark gray - I could not settle on anything decent, the grass was a 'quick fix' at the start copied right from the 'terrain tiles' above the US on the map.



I am no artist, so I will leave that those who have the skills and eye for doing this stuff.

Ok, here are the files, one based on DBB-C Scen 28 and one on DBB-C Scen 29. I have moved the scenario numbers to 128 and 129 to avoid potential conflicts and overwrites.

Additions to the files are in the following locations, and this is also the order (top to bottom) in which to make them to a new scenario if desired.

Locations File
#1550 - British Off Map Base
#1551 - Commonwealth Off Map Base
#1552 - USAAF Off Map Base
#1553 - USN/USMC Off Map Base
#1554 - Minor Off Map Base

#7765 - Base Force for British Base
#7766 - Base Force for Commonwealth Base
#7767 - Base Force for USAAF Base
#7768 - Base Force for USN/USMC Base
#7769 - Base Force for Minor Base

Leaders File
#29500 - 120PP Release (example leader)
Make sure you set all these to Delay 470101 or something similarly post-war to ensure they do not return with reinforcements which have a 'random' leader.

Air Groups File
#4500 - P-36A Reserve Group (example air group)

I have set the pilots to come in at 10 experience as per suggestions here. Personally, I think 25-30 might be more appropriate and would allow them to be recycled into on map training squadrons the same way normal pilot reinforcements are.

As it is they will likely linger around as rejects forever, and deduct one airframe within a few days from any operational squadron they find their way into via automatic pilot replacement.

I increased the Starting PP for Allies from 100 to 150 in both scenarios so that one can easily release the available 120PP airgroup if desired for testing. Apart from this no other alterations have been make to the scenario files.

The folder includes the two sets of scenario files (128 & 129) in the SCEN folder, as well as the two map tiles (WPEH13 & WPEH13) in the ART folder.

If somebody wants these in different scenario slots then please let me know and I will create them.

ZIP Format; http://www.mediafire.com/download/gx1g80055573d7x/AAP_Concept.zip
RAR Format; http://www.mediafire.com/download/gvcw76rak1u8h2j/AAP_Concept.rar

Looking forward to seeing just where this goes.

Regards,
Juan

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Now slap me silly - never scrolled far enough down in the weapons slots of a convoy to see that from slot 2000 onwards there are airframes that can be assigned. Interesting...

Yepperino !! If one adds 2000 to the slot number of an airplane, it can become a "device". A B-17E device is 2285 [:)]

Seems aircraft can be assigned to any kind of LCU. But when the LCU is disbanded (with "devices to pool" option set of course), I don't see the aircraft being added to the pools. The other decives in my test LCU (like aviation support) are being added to the pools nicely - but not the aircraft. Aircraft only show up in the pools if the LCU is designated a "convoy unit" and auto-disbands after 3 days. At least in my tests.

This is unfortunate. If it were possible to have aircraft disband into the pools from non-convoy units like ordinary devices, we could create LCUs loaded with "emergency" deliveries of aircraft which cannot disband to pool until PPs are paid - "unfraudable" so no house rule and leader swapping required. And the PP costs could be adjusted at will by adding meaningless devices to the LCU (like a "PPs" device without any other function but to bloat the PP costs of the unit).

Any chance to talk Michael into looking at the disband-to-pool-options for aircraft?

[John 3rd]

I like this idea more and more. Juan and Gary: This is outstanding. Juan---When you have your files set (I like 128--129 for Scenario Numbers) I will use them for Modding the new Treaty Mod as well as a revamped RA. Shoot me the zipped scenario files when you get the chance. Am emailing you right now so you still have my email address.

[Symon]

OK, two separate responses to two separate thread thingies.

@JuanG and @John3rd
Juan's idea is excellent. In function, it doesn't work too well with stock based scenarios, but there's absolutely no reason why his map-edge bases can't be implemented in the standard Extended Map as a matter of course. Without his LCU/Aircraft functionality they would be just pretty icons in the grey area; but they would exist, in data, for functional implementation. I think this would work for everyone. I will do it forthwith. It won't hurt any ongoing games, because Juan's functionality it's just non-op bases and non-op base forces.

I would not do anything special for the Art. It's not important, and only makes for a difference (and bigger files) in Map Art downloads, which would only confuse people. Juan's bases and LCUs will show up where they are supposed to, on the usual Ext Map (and even the Stock Map) without any addl Art.

I will do this for all Babes right away.

@LST
Doing that would require new code that also links through to the whole PP system. Not sure Mike would want to go there just to make a few modders happy [8D] Whole idea with "convoy" based pool reinforcement was to give "income" some hills and valleys, instead of just being a "flat-line" always 10-per-month value. It works extremely well in an umpire-based system, where the ump can inject plasma, if needed, but not so much for a "grip-it-and-rip-it" standard GC game [8D]

JuanG has a good "Payment" based system going that looks very useful. For your mod, you might wish to consider Juan's approach. I will be putting the necessary infrastructure into all the appropriate Babes scenarios. Yes, I will make a changelog [:D]

Ciao all. JWE

[PaxMondo]

Thanks John. It will be a nice addition.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Understood, John. Will use JuanG's excellent idea - just need to find some base slots (all used already in my mod to dot-base the CBI - choices, choices...)

[Symon]

Whoops, found a teensy problem. If you put the air-reinforce bases into the "Gray" area at the edges, you can mouse-over tham, but can't open them, or any units in them. To do that, you need to modify the pwhexe.dat file to place a "valid" hex type in each x:y location. This would introduce yet another pwhexe file to the pot .. not too goodnik, I'm thinking.

But wait !! Not only do you get a bug report with your order but, if you act now, you get a free, Yes! Free!, solution to this dilema .. the solution is suitable for treatment of teonail fungus, incontinence, the scroufula, and minor instances of erectile dysfunction.

I moved the base hex locations to the arctic wastelend, above where it says Arctic Ocean. Those white hexes are of "valid" type, so everything works as it should. No worries about arctic conditions because everything is '"static" anyway. If one wants an identifying background, one only need play with the Art. No new pwhexe.dat files. Makes life simpler, and allows one to 'rise' to the occasion, as it were, without too much effort. I'll post up a pic and a changelog, if this is of interest.

Ciao. J

[Lecivius]

I like the solution [;)]  I'll take it, it appearently corrects some of my problems (and I ain't sayin which ones!)