NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs NY59Giants (A) - Between the Storms

[Cribtop]

Obvert has submitted a quite fetching entry in the Sig picture sweepstakes. Problem is neither one of us remember how to attach a picture in a signature. Little help?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Obvert has submitted a quite fetching entry in the Sig picture sweepstakes. Problem is neither one of us remember how to attach a picture in a signature. Little help?

Got it now. Just tried with the wrong brackets earlier.

If you have the image on a third party site, like photobucket, you just copy the web address and place normal picture brackets around it in the signature area on your profile; .

[Lecivius]

I'm in, but where are the cheerleaders?!?!?

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Thanks, guys. Hopefully I can run my Empire better than Jerry Jones runs Da Boys!

I feel your pain. Long time Cowboys fan myself. The first NFL game I remember was the Ice-bowl NFL Championship game against Green Bay.

Looking foward to the AAR and insights into the RA/Between the Storms mod.
Good luck

[John 3rd]

Thought I would put in here the OFFICIAL RA description from the website. Take the Treaty Mod description, add this, and PRESTO you have Between the Storms!

The Reluctant Admiral is a Japanese 'what if' scenario based upon a greater contribution by Adm. Yamamoto Isoroku to the development of the Kaigun in 1936-1941. The premise of the Mod is that Yamamoto exerted a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for a war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building Plan replacing the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class Battleships with improved Shokaku-Class CVs and a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, two Tone-Class CAs, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions shall make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.

The Japan Naval Air Arm is changed so that everything is staked to the Zero Airframe with a specialization of the Zero into a Land-Based Interceptor as well as CV-Based Fighters. Research and production expansion is achieved by streamlining the air industry (cutting several models) while bringing forward second generation aircraft: Judy, Jill, etc… By great effort the IJNAF deploys nearly all new aircraft on December 7th.

On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.

The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.

Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!

Once war begins RA postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Several more Shokaku CVs are ordered as well as another pair of CAs, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs. First class destroyers are accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better 2nd-class destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense fleet.

It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. RA 6.4+ brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, a French Squadron at Noumea, the use of CLV Charlotte (a Flightdeck Cruiser), a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV, Tangier Class AV, and Cimarron Class AOs into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.



How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?



Designer's notes:

RA is fully compatible with Da Babe’s Modifications and may be used on the Extended Map with any other Babes feature.
This Mod uses the reduced cargo capacity of DBB.
Garrison requirements have been raised throughout the CBI Theatre to slow the creation and movement of immense stacks of troops that is considered a-historical.
Production is 'on' for this scenario
A special pwhexe.dat file is strongly recommended to help slow land movement throughout the map.
ATA Combat has been modified as per JWE/Symon’s work.



Scenario Designers: Stanislav Bartoshevitch (FatR), Michael Benoit (NY59Giants), John R. Cochran, III (John 3rd), Juan Gomez (JuanG), Ben Kloosterman (BK), John (JWE), EJ (SuluSea) and John Young (Red Lancer)

[Cribtop]

Thanks John!

With that, let's politely close this thread to Michael. I will stop in to his thread to say hi and then depart as well. He and I will work up any house rules we feel necessary (although we want to go with the minimum).

Beginning tomorrow, while we wait for the mod to be complete and for the game to begin, I will begin a discussion of a few areas I am thinking about for strategy, R&D, production and the impact of the mod's changes on plans and operations.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Here ya go- use it if you wish!

DAMN! Send that to me. I'd love to have that to look at. Where did yo find it BBFanBoy?

I could not find that specific painting but I found another web site with dozens of beautiful paintings of Japanese ships, mostly
WWII, some in action.

http://www.aeronautic.dk/MarineArtgallery-T-Yuki.html

[Cribtop]

So, question 1 to the readers: What should the Empire's Grand Strategy be?

One subset of this question is whether to play for early auto victory or try to hold out and deny auto-vic to the Allies. Frankly, this Mod appears to beef up the IJN and to streamline air production while also giving the Japanese earlier access to mid war goodies like CVs. It also give the Allies some significant initial assets and improves their ability to contest the early advance. We also must factor in that the quality of the opposing High Command is very good with Michael in charge. To me, this actually argues against trying a big foray for auto vic like conquering India, Oz or Hawaii. Enemy resistance, while still beatable, will be stiffer than normal early. Likewise, it appears Japanese ability to resist will continue longer provided the DEI is quickly taken (as the mod starts with lower fuel and supply stockpiles).

Still, maybe I'm way off on all this. What is the best course of action here? Auto victory or the long war?

[EHansen]

My vote is to try and deny him a auto victory until after the end of August 1945.

[Capt. Harlock]

Still, maybe I'm way off on all this. What is the best course of action here? Auto victory or the long war?

How long are you planning to play? Fold when the end result becomes obvious, or fight it to the invasion of the Home Islands? If you go for auto-victory and fail, a long game will not be any fun.

[Cribtop]

Good point, but I've never gotten into the late game and have some clever plans for an Imperial defense I've thus never gotten to try. I'd say I would fight until the end became obvious to all and the IJN and Imperial air forces were ruined. In this mod, if that happens before mid to late '44 I'm a goofus (which is of course, entirely possible).

I am not averse to trying for auto victory early, but I doubt Michael will play poorly enough to let me grab India or enough of Oz. The option of a Mr. Kane like try for parts of Oz and heavy VP multiplier sites in SOPAC is intriguing and may be quite possible with the enhanced SNLF brigades in this mod. I wonder whether grabbing down to Pago Pago along with NW, SW and NE Oz is enough for auto vic, however.

[Cribtop]

PS - One element I'm toying with is a smash and grab feint in NOPAC, which I think could easily be accomplished early with minimal assets and might throw Michael off as to my intentions. For example, we could start at Kodiak Island and backfill to the Kuriles in a lightning campaign that leaves the Empire with the usual buffer in the Aleutians while giving the appearance of a major attack up here. This isn't a grand strategy of course, more of an element of a plan to create a plausible and unsettling feint in the early going.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

PS - One element I'm toying with is a smash and grab feint in NOPAC, which I think could easily be accomplished early with minimal assets and might throw Michael off as to my intentions. For example, we could start at Kodiak Island and backfill to the Kuriles in a lightning campaign that leaves the Empire with the usual buffer in the Aleutians while giving the appearance of a major attack up here. This isn't a grand strategy of course, more of an element of a plan to create a plausible and unsettling feint in the early going.

A smash and grab is good - provided it's just a smash and grab.

I made the mistake of commiting to the Aleutians as Japan, and it was a mistake. Thankfully I wasn't punished for it too harshly (lost 1 BB and some smaller warships), but it could have been much worse.

NORPAC is a theater stacked against Japan. Geography and logisitics work in favour of the Allies. There's plenty of bases the Allied teraforming machine can turn into massive airbases that you can't avoid.

My suggestion would be smash and grab, but commit nothing in the long term bar a Naval Guard unit to garrison Adak and a avaition company. Anything else is a waste and is much better spent in developing the Kuriles in the long run. Adak is the only real-estate worth having, and if you can keep the Allied engineers off it for six months, it's six months they don't have to turn it into a formidable base threatening your northern flank.

As an Allied player, the only thing that would convince me of a serious Japanese push in the Aleutians would be any operations eastwards of Dutch Harbour. IOW, Kodiak and Anchorage. Considering the Allied deployments on Dec 7th, that's hard to do without the carriers (MKB, the KB would be wasted). At that point, it's no longer "looking" like a major commitment. It is a major commitment.

[Lowpe]

Well, what kind of game are you looking to try?

Minimal house rule makes me think the game will be wide open, with a big push on China early with perhaps a lot of the Chinese fleeing into India making Burma/India one huge scrum.

Scratch that-- I see you will pay PP for crossing borders.

[Mike McCreery]

I am jealous that your AAR exceeds 500 hits before a single AAR... ;]

+1 :]

I love minimal house rules. In a game with opponents that respect each other it seems to be the way to go!

[SierraJuliet]

I'm inclined to the long game. Smash and grab for the VPs is one thing but taking the Allied player all the way is the true challenge.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

PS - One element I'm toying with is a smash and grab feint in NOPAC, which I think could easily be accomplished early with minimal assets and might throw Michael off as to my intentions. For example, we could start at Kodiak Island and backfill to the Kuriles in a lightning campaign that leaves the Empire with the usual buffer in the Aleutians while giving the appearance of a major attack up here. This isn't a grand strategy of course, more of an element of a plan to create a plausible and unsettling feint in the early going.

A smash and grab is good - provided it's just a smash and grab.

I made the mistake of commiting to the Aleutians as Japan, and it was a mistake. Thankfully I wasn't punished for it too harshly (lost 1 BB and some smaller warships), but it could have been much worse.

NORPAC is a theater stacked against Japan. Geography and logisitics work in favour of the Allies. There's plenty of bases the Allied teraforming machine can turn into massive airbases that you can't avoid.

My suggestion would be smash and grab, but commit nothing in the long term bar a Naval Guard unit to garrison Adak and a avaition company. Anything else is a waste and is much better spent in developing the Kuriles in the long run. Adak is the only real-estate worth having, and if you can keep the Allied engineers off it for six months, it's six months they don't have to turn it into a formidable base threatening your northern flank.

As an Allied player, the only thing that would convince me of a serious Japanese push in the Aleutians would be any operations eastwards of Dutch Harbour. IOW, Kodiak and Anchorage. Considering the Allied deployments on Dec 7th, that's hard to do without the carriers (MKB, the KB would be wasted). At that point, it's no longer "looking" like a major commitment. It is a major commitment.

A game between CanoeRebel vs. PJH . PJH struck very hard at Alaska and almost achieved an AV if it not for a huge mistake that Cribtop recognized about strategic bombing and a side effort of PJH that threw everything in the toilet ..
An Alaska offense with the right LOC can be a major threat if the players are playing for AV ...

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

PS - One element I'm toying with is a smash and grab feint in NOPAC, which I think could easily be accomplished early with minimal assets and might throw Michael off as to my intentions. For example, we could start at Kodiak Island and backfill to the Kuriles in a lightning campaign that leaves the Empire with the usual buffer in the Aleutians while giving the appearance of a major attack up here. This isn't a grand strategy of course, more of an element of a plan to create a plausible and unsettling feint in the early going.

A smash and grab is good - provided it's just a smash and grab.

I made the mistake of commiting to the Aleutians as Japan, and it was a mistake. Thankfully I wasn't punished for it too harshly (lost 1 BB and some smaller warships), but it could have been much worse.

NORPAC is a theater stacked against Japan. Geography and logisitics work in favour of the Allies. There's plenty of bases the Allied teraforming machine can turn into massive airbases that you can't avoid.

My suggestion would be smash and grab, but commit nothing in the long term bar a Naval Guard unit to garrison Adak and a avaition company. Anything else is a waste and is much better spent in developing the Kuriles in the long run. Adak is the only real-estate worth having, and if you can keep the Allied engineers off it for six months, it's six months they don't have to turn it into a formidable base threatening your northern flank.

As an Allied player, the only thing that would convince me of a serious Japanese push in the Aleutians would be any operations eastwards of Dutch Harbour. IOW, Kodiak and Anchorage. Considering the Allied deployments on Dec 7th, that's hard to do without the carriers (MKB, the KB would be wasted). At that point, it's no longer "looking" like a major commitment. It is a major commitment.

A game between CanoeRebel vs. PJH . PJH struck very hard at Alaska and almost achieved an AV if it not for a huge mistake that Cribtop recognized about strategic bombing and a side effort of PJH that threw everything in the toilet ..
An Alaska offense with the right LOC can be a major threat if the players are playing for AV ...

Alaska is the second worst candidate for a major Japanese offensive, just behind attacking the Soviet Union.

There really is nothing good to be said in favour of taking Alaska.

- There's nothing really worth taking in terms of resources. The VP's for the bases and the troops are the only things of value, and there's far better targets that up in Alaksa...
- Japan needs to commit scarce engineering assets to build up bases.
- Japan has to go all the way back to the Home Islands for large ports or shipyards. The Allies have the Canadian ports as well as Seattle.
- It's about as far away from the fuel of the DEI as you can get and requires probably the longest possible logisitcs train in the game to support.
- It's very exposed to a counter-attack. The Allies can base-hop up the coast, backed up by LBA and isolate any Japanese defences.

If you're trying for AV, there's far more profitable places, that you can take with far more ease than Alaska.

[Cribtop]

Yeah, the Alaska move would strictly be a feint in this game if I try it.

I am inclined to play the long game but I will study the possibility of a SOPAC plus the easily taken portions of OZ as an auto vic strategy.

Hardest thing for Japan is that when you really think about it the best strategy is not to attack at all. [;)]

[pontiouspilot]

I will follow both sides with great interest!

It strikes me that the extra assets might lend itself to some very aggressive convoy interdiction through '42. Face it, this game is all about logistics. This may need 1 or 2 deep south bases for refueling if nothing else.