shore bombardment

[John B.]

Lowpe,

I've had the IJA do that to me as well and it was also at Saipan. Maybe Siapan is a magic hex and Chittagong is a cursed one. I'm not disagreeing at all that the factors you and others have listed play a role and I'm sure that there is some die roll as to whether units fire, but three bombardments later two at night and one at dawn (and as you see from the first post) against decent CD units with decent leaders with lots of supplies etc.. you'd think someone somewhere might be tempted to pull a lanyard now and again. [;)]

[John B.]

Oh, just to be clear, the Chittagong CD fortress unit has a 100 prep and it has not fired either.

[Lowpe]

Shouldn't that unit have a lot more support units in it? I also would add that inspiration 42 is not real good...inspiration is usually used in the die roll for attacks in some manner. Not sure it is here though.

I agree it is a black science seemingly. Keep on experimenting.

Having been burnt by Dutch guns in the SRA, I always try to bombard from outside the range of the guns. Personally.

Do you have a screenshot of something showing the Chinese mortars shooting at a bombardment fleet. Didn't know that could happen.[&:]

[John B.]

Lowpe,

I'm not sure. But, I did check out the IJA CD unit on Saipan (at least how it is on Dec. 7, 1941) and that had 34 support and needed 35 for more guns so the support for the Chittagong units seems in line with the Saipan CD unit that we know has at least fired twice and inflicted significant damage. It is a real puzzlement.

[John B.]

Sorry for the fragmented nature of my replies, it seems that I only see part of your message each time. I was wrong about the Chinese. They shot at the invasion TF (183 times but, sadly yet not unexpectedly, no hits) but they did not shoot at the bombardment fleet. There are no CD units in that hex which is Cox's Bazar.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: John B.

I agree, it makes a lot of sense that the invasions take more damage and hits, but it's the not shooting at all that I don't get. But, I do really appreciate you getting back to me!

When an invasion is landing, the CD crews have time to get to their guns and fire. Unless the bombardment TF was expected, the CD gun crews aren't sleeping at their mounts. By the time they get there, the bombardment force has left.

I have not checked the code, so this is speculation, but I suspect the response of CD guns to bombardment TFs is affected by the detection level.

Bill

[John B.]

Bill, you mean there is no "sleep by guns" option I can choose????[:)]

What you say makes sense but I went back to the turn before and what I believe is the bombardment task force has been spotted (see below) along with the other TFs off of Akyab and Cox's Bazar. I'm not sure of the detection level, but I'll ask Scott (my opponent) if he can tell me what it was since our game is on hold right now. But as I've noted above, I've had IJN bombardment TFs spend the entire day in the same hex as Chittagong and then bombard me the next dawn with no effort by my units to stop them.

Thanks for jumping in on this.

[wdolson]

If a TF is in a hex and not engaged in something that will bring them near shore, it is presumed they are out at sea and out of range of any CD guns. A hex is 40 nautical miles across.

Bill

[Yaab]

John B., what scenario/mod are you playing?

The 6" MK guns have 54 anti-soft/20 anti-armor ratings in the stock/DaBabes scenarios. There are no navy guns with 0/0 ratings in those scenarios either.

[Lowpe]

Do you have night naval search up? Also, put some planes on night naval attack. The combination can be very nice even without hits.

[panzer cat]

Hello. Im johns opponent, he's given me the o.k. to look in. The t.f he has spotted was not the bombarding t.f. That might answer why the 3rd bombardment was not fired upon. The first t.f. that sat off Chittagong was spotted, rookie mistake on my part. I agree that the first should have been fired upon. The second bombardment wasn't planned the ships where pulled from multiple groups.

Back to the WAHOO's

scott

[John B.]

@Yaab, we're playing the campaign game (scenario 1).

@Lowpe, those are good ideas!

@ Bill given what Scott said it makes me wonder. If you have a base within one impulse sail could you sail BBs there in TF A, disband the TF, then, start a TF B with the same ships the next day and sail to bombard without ever having a DL since there would be no air phase before the new TF did the bombardment? As I've said, I can see low DL having a big effect on the quality and quantity of the response, but since my CDs just don't seem to fire it seems odd. But, thanks for your responses thus far.

[panzer cat]

first tf was a planed bb bombardment. 2nd was a cruiser covering force at aykab(sp) I believe I added ships to it as I felt the first bombardment was ineffective. The 3rd was a planed bb bombardment also ineffective in my opinion. The 4th is on it's way.[:D]

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: John B.

@Yaab, we're playing the campaign game (scenario 1).

@Lowpe, those are good ideas!

@ Bill given what Scott said it makes me wonder. If you have a base within one impulse sail could you sail BBs there in TF A, disband the TF, then, start a TF B with the same ships the next day and sail to bombard without ever having a DL since there would be no air phase before the new TF did the bombardment? As I've said, I can see low DL having a big effect on the quality and quantity of the response, but since my CDs just don't seem to fire it seems odd. But, thanks for your responses thus far.

Read s.10.1.1.1 of the manual and you will see how easy it is for a bombardment TF to have a DL of zero. Your opponent has no need to go to the above measures to have minimise his DL.

It is up to you to get the DL up.

Alfred

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: John B.

Lowpe,

I'm not sure. But, I did check out the IJA CD unit on Saipan (at least how it is on Dec. 7, 1941) and that had 34 support and needed 35 for more guns so the support for the Chittagong units seems in line with the Saipan CD unit that we know has at least fired twice and inflicted significant damage. It is a real puzzlement.

FWIW, and probably not much, but Japan has certain islands/CD installations labeled "fortresses." Saipan is one, there are a few in the Marshalls/Gilberts, etc. It has been my experience in AI games that these places are far more effective than the garden-variety CD installations. I don't know if there's an EXE tweak or if it's my imagination, but I try to avoid those places.

To your original question about how to stop Japan's bombardments I would say meet naval with naval. Bombardments try to happen at night. Air won't help, mines are problematic due to how the code sees "fields", and PTs are finicky. If you want to stop his BBs use yours. Depending on era ten Fletchers can work pretty well too. Make it cost him and he'll choose his risks more carefully. If it costs you too, well, you get more ships.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: John B.

Lowpe,

I'm not sure. But, I did check out the IJA CD unit on Saipan (at least how it is on Dec. 7, 1941) and that had 34 support and needed 35 for more guns so the support for the Chittagong units seems in line with the Saipan CD unit that we know has at least fired twice and inflicted significant damage. It is a real puzzlement.

FWIW, and probably not much, but Japan has certain islands/CD installations labeled "fortresses." Saipan is one, there are a few in the Marshalls/Gilberts, etc. It has been my experience in AI games that these places are far more effective than the garden-variety CD installations. I don't know if there's an EXE tweak or if it's my imagination, but I try to avoid those places.

I've seen the same. A dozen 12cm DP guns in a normal LCU fire a few hundred shots. A dedicated CD LCU seems to fire a whole lot more and for a whole lot longer.

Again, no solid testing, I've merely been on the wrong end of several Fletcher bombardment runs.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I don't know if there's an EXE tweak or if it's my imagination,

They've been very clear that there is no exe tweak there - 'Fortress' is just part of the name and nothing more. Now CD units (including fortresses) are different than arty units or other units with guns and certainly do get treated differently. The issue with the 'Fortress' named units has to lie in the stats of the unit and its leader. If those bases started the campaign with good fort levels that would help too.

[Lowpe]

+1 on using your surface ships to run and disrupt the bombardment...it does work wonders. Doesn't even need to be much 3-4 destroyers can really mess up the aim, expend the ammo, and might get lucky with a torpedo hit.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

When all else fails, send a massive invasion force to capture the base where they are rearming and refueling! [:D]

This was my thought as well. If the BBs are returning with such regularity, they must be rearming someplace nearby. A port raid by long-ranged Allied 4EBs will dissuade such proximity.

[Phanatikk]

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

the only times I find that mines work against a bombardment is when the mines are placed in a hex that the bombardment task force traverses BEFORE it reaches the bombardment hex.

So, bombarding Pearl on the 7th...? At BB ranges, of course.