First Impressions?!?!

[Michael T]

Thanks itkotw, the first half of your post is very informative. I was wondering how the game handled this kind of thing. Good to hear an opinion from a first tome SOW player.

[Rosseau]

I am assuming the first part of itkotw's post is typical of the SoW series' formation/move oddities at times. I can deal with that.

However, his second point about the sandbox campaign throwing you into battles where you don't know if you are attacking or defending or from where the enemy cometh is of greater concern. Even the most basic random battle generators give the player an idea of their goals. Clueless roaming around a large SoW battlefield for an hour looking for a fight doesn't sound like fun.

His description reminds me of "quick battles" in CM Shock Force, the oldest of the Combat Mission 2 games. Since then, Battlefront has improved quick battles in its series, but no one recommends playing them with the ancient CMSF engine. This issue has put the game on hold for me until more people weigh in.

[histgamer]

ORIGINAL: rosseau

I am assuming the first part of itkotw's post is typical of the SoW series' formation/move oddities at times. I can deal with that.

However, his second point about the sandbox campaign throwing you into battles where you don't know if you are attacking or defending or from where the enemy cometh is of greater concern. Even the most basic random battle generators give the player an idea of their goals. Clueless roaming around a large SoW battlefield for an hour looking for a fight doesn't sound like fun.

His description reminds me of "quick battles" in CM Shock Force, the oldest of the Combat Mission 2 games. Since then, Battlefront has improved quick battles in its series, but no one recommends playing them with the ancient CMSF engine. This issue has put the game on hold for me until more people weigh in.

I literally just loaded the game and marched two armies into each other, and took a screenshot first thing. Were you looking at the Battle Map to find your objective? That can make it much easier.

Sorry if the image isn't clear, I had to dramatically downgrade the screenshot because of the file size limit for matrix forums but that text showing on the screen where my mouse cursor is is explaining that your objective is to hold that point and the yellow X on the map is the objective.

[con20or]

SOW does take some getting use to but once you understand how it works it is great fun.

I've tried to deal with most of your questions.

ORIGINAL: itkotw
Once you give a move order, there is no telling where your unit will end up.

If you select your unit or their superior you should see destination markers on the ground.

-

ORIGINAL: itkotw
There is no way to tell approximately what space your formation will take up when it reaches its destination.

This takes practice when moving individual units in combat, but all brigade+ formations (unless you are using a very high sprite ratio) have been predesigned to make sure there is no overlap. There is also an option in the courier menu to tell units to form up to the left/right/rear of etc. If you really want to see a polygon marking the frontage of the units at a destination point their is an ini file edit i can give you. We use it for scenario design.

-

ORIGINAL: itkotw
Are they firing at the wall?

The unit dialogue in the upper left hand corner will tell you who you are targeting at any time. The lines clipping with buildings is unfortunate - we worked hard to remove it but it just lead to problems with units occupying forts.

ORIGINAL: itkotw
The enemy advanced on the town and the battle started. Only my infantry division was there in the battle, no cavalry.

Units must be combined prior to a battle to fight together.

-

ORIGINAL: itkotw
There is no real hint to the direction the enemy is coming.

If you want all units revealed on the map just lower the difficulty setting. The enemy could split up anyway so there is no one direction - but they will usually follow roads.

-

ORIGINAL: itkotw
It took me a second to figure out the game set me as the attacker and the enemy (that just advanced to the town) as the defender. I was looking forward to a hard defense(I was out numbered) That was it for me too many hours spent fighting the game, start over...

If you hover over the objective on the map it tells you who can and can't take the objective.

-


On the campaign map, depending on the size of the forces involved if you are in the town you are the defender. If you attack troops in the town you are the attacker. We have a check put in that if the 2 forces spawning at the objective are very large then it might default to a 'hunt them down' scenario. If you meet on the road it alternates between a 'line of sight' confrontation battle or a 'hunt them down' battle.

[Thorsten]

ORIGINAL: roy64

moving the camera around the map is very awkward

True. And getting your troops where you want want them is nearly impossible with this (beschissenen (sorry)) green arrow.

[Grim.Reaper]

ORIGINAL: Thorsten

ORIGINAL: roy64

moving the camera around the map is very awkward

True. And getting your troops where you want want them is nearly impossible with this (beschissenen (sorry)) green arrow.

This I agree with...trying to face your unit with the green arrow and selecting a precise spot on the map seems very tricky for some reason. As I try and drag the green arrow around, just feels like your fighting it.

[con20or]

It really is great once you get used to it. I wont be going back tot he old UI I can tell you that. What were you trying to do Thorsten?

[Grim.Reaper]

ORIGINAL: con20or

It really is great once you get used to it. I wont be going back tot he old UI I can tell you that. What were you trying to do Thorsten?

For me, I like the intent of using the context menu, but just seems very imprecise right now. Unless you go to extreme ground level view, when you click on the map, the green arrow does not appear to show in the specific location you selected, often it is shown a little ways off. Then when you try to rotate the arrow, it just seems like a struggle to change direction, especially if your trying to change it from one complete direction to another (i.e. from front to back). Then as I struggle with the placement, most times I accidentally select another place on the ground and my unit moves there.

Again, I like the concept, just been tough to be precise and quickly use it, which makes it a little frustrating. Maybe with time that will change...

[con20or]

An alternative method some people use is to click, hold and pan the camera. That also pans the green arrow.

[roy64]

ORIGINAL: con20or

It really is great once you get used to it. I wont be going back tot he old UI I can tell you that. What were you trying to do Thorsten?

I know you keep asking for people to "Persevere with the new UI" which I'm really trying to do, believe me I am! But what If I can't? will it be moddable? or is it a case of lump it or like it.[8|]

[con20or]

If you mean the buttons, context menus, etc it already is - a grog toolbar mod shipped with the game. Have a look in your modifications menu. The basic method of setting orientation is not moddable as far as I know.

[sillyflower]

As a Englishman living in France I'm currently feeling very Waterloo'y and reading Bernard Cornwell's new book on the campaign. V excited about this new offering though the series is new to me. I'm not an ACW game fan.

However, from the video I saw on youtube this morning the game doesn't look much cop. Watched an inept french commander attack Hougemont by marching up inf in line (skirmishers left idle and no arty support) and kill/rout all the allied skirmishers in the woods outside the chateau (who just stood around in clumps) without losing a single man. A mockery of what actually happened with the french taking heavy losses from artillery file and musketry before the allied skirmishers retreated back into the chateau

Conclusion - french commander not that inept but game is. Am I wrong???? For once, I hope so

[roy64]

Yes I know about the grog toolbar but the buttons are to small at the moment, so it looks like we are stuck with the way we can move around the map.[:(]

[roy64]

I played that scenario many times & my french troops kept getting hammered. I keep sending them all over the place by mistake. It's very tricky/awkward to move the way you want to.

[con20or]

You will lose quite a few men clearing those woods out - and if after clearing them you push on for Hougoumont (you are given the option to) fugeddaboutit [;)]

[LittlePowell_NSD]

ORIGINAL: roy64

I played that scenario many times & my french troops kept getting hammered. I keep sending them all over the place by mistake. It's very tricky/awkward to move the way you want to.

Yes it can be overwhelming at first, especially if you are brand new to SOW games. I would suggest trying the tutorial as it is very small scale and teaches you the basics of movement. And from there, you can try small, brigade size sandbox battles--less pressure to complete objectives etc. and will get you acclimated to the game.

[Pawsy]

conclusion - french commander not that inept but game is. Am I wrong???? For once, I hope so

You should expect to beat the AI, try a human if you want a challenge. The AI is there to help you learn the game.

I have won the first two scenarios as the French at Brigade level on normal. If your getting hammered - its you commander go hand in your chevrons. The allied forces were good and its noticeable that they adopt a different strategy each time you replay the scenario.

Not all allied and French commanders were competent and part of thats the intended fog of war is that they act according to their leadership quality. As a plus sometimes they reacted quicker and better than me! So expect imperfect execution of orders. Expect the cavelry to charge the squares without support as happened on the day. And if you know the battle then you will know that was conducted by one of the best French commanders.

[roy64]

ORIGINAL: Little Powell

ORIGINAL: roy64

I played that scenario many times & my french troops kept getting hammered. I keep sending them all over the place by mistake. It's very tricky/awkward to move the way you want to.

Yes it can be overwhelming at first, especially if you are brand new to SOW games. I would suggest trying the tutorial as it is very small scale and teaches you the basics of movement. And from there, you can try small, brigade size sandbox battles--less pressure to complete objectives etc. and will get you acclimated to the game.

I have Scourge of War Gettysburg 150th Anniversary Collection (probably the best game I've played) so not new to SOW games. I've not totally given up yet, but I'm not far of it.

[LittlePowell_NSD]

ORIGINAL: roy64

ORIGINAL: Little Powell

ORIGINAL: roy64

I played that scenario many times & my french troops kept getting hammered. I keep sending them all over the place by mistake. It's very tricky/awkward to move the way you want to.

Yes it can be overwhelming at first, especially if you are brand new to SOW games. I would suggest trying the tutorial as it is very small scale and teaches you the basics of movement. And from there, you can try small, brigade size sandbox battles--less pressure to complete objectives etc. and will get you acclimated to the game.

I have Scourge of War Gettysburg 150th Anniversary Collection (probably the best game I've played) so not new to SOW games. I've not totally given up yet, but I'm not far of it.

Understood. And one more thing, if you weren't already aware, there is a Grog toolbar mod in the modifications menu. Once enabled, it gives you a more classic GB feel, and with many more options.

[roy64]

It's not my commander who's incompetent, it's me, i cant get a grip with the damn controls [:D] I would struggle to play against my cat at the moment let alone against a human. [:D]