Skeptical about Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa

[SuluSea]

I have to say this is my favorite part of WW2 in Europe but given the price, limited scope and look of the
map I'll sit this one out for now. I have made some poor decisions on my purchases in the past
usually during the euphoria of release which has made me more reluctant to pull the trigger.
I admit this developer has my attention & I may revisit my thoughts after the first of the year. Best of luck going forward!!

[Franciscus]

Hi

Also on the fence, and likely will pass, although I would like to support the devs.
The new rpg elements are interesting, and I can live with abstractions and a poor map.

But 50€ for a game with only one scenario is not reasonable. Specially for me, that usually have no real time for a "big" campaign and would very much like if some more small scenarios were included.
Proposing an editor for the community to make such scenarios is not exactly a reasonable proposition...

Regards

[Delaware]

You folks keep saying there is only one scenario, but this isn't a scenario based, tactical game. This is a true operational game, one of the most unique and incredible simulations of overall command I have ever played. The nature of the game means its focus is on the long term consequences of operational decisions, of which there are many and have different impacts. So playing "Stalingrad" would completely defeat the scope and purpose of the game. Trust me when I tell you it's not like any other war game you have ever played.

[Franciscus]

ORIGINAL: Delaware

You folks keep saying there is only one scenario, but this isn't a scenario based, tactical game. This is a true operational game, one of the most unique and incredible simulations of overall command I have ever played. The nature of the game means its focus is on the long term consequences of operational decisions, of which there are many and have different impacts. So playing "Stalingrad" would completely defeat the scope and purpose of the game. Trust me when I tell you it's not like any other war game you have ever played.

I understand your point, but for some reason an editor for the community to make smaller scenarios is to be released, or am I wrong ?

If that is so, for 50€ the full campaign and several smaller scenarios would be reasonable. Otherwise, this belongs IMHO on the 30-35€ price range.

(As a comparison, WWIIE from Schwerpunkt was sold at 50$, with more than 50 scenarios at release (including Barbarossa), with several more being steadily released for free, up to more than 100 campaigns and scenarios)
Just my opinion, hope you guys enjoy the game and the devs are successful.

Regards

[Templer_12]

If I can thus find many exciting hours, I'm happy to be willing to pay € 50.
I just have to find out if the current version of the Decisive Campaign series, Barbarossa, is worth for me.
To this end, I am still skeptical.

• Only 1941/1942
• Only a single scenario, and only 8 month covered
• No Tiger
• No Panther
• No Stalingrad
• No Manstein
• Airwar and artillery abstracted
• Price

Heavy on the plus side, what also speaks for the game in my eyes is the outstanding support and the product care by VR Design.
Vic is always quick with answers in the Forum.
And can you remember the huge patch/update for Decisive Campaigns: The Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris after [sic] Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue was released?

[zakblood]

Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa Release Stream! Nov 24th Twitch feed is up to watch http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup/v/27484594

more depth, more info, and a chance to see it in action as the one before this was a beta version[;)]

[budd]

ORIGINAL: Templer

If I can thus find many exciting hours, I'm happy to be willing to pay € 50.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts. I too get caught up in the "how many scenario/campaigns come with the game" If i get hours and hours of enjoyment does it matter how. 1 big scenario or 10 smaller scenarios. Now if its a counter number thing, i get that as i have trouble with games with a lot of counters. I don't have the game yet, but i will sooner or later. It's tasks me, it tasks me and i shall have it.

[gwgardner]

There are so many options and varieties of play in this game that to me there is an unlimited horizon of replayability for the one scenario.

Just one example: 'posture' is a key concept in the game, whether your individual armies are in blitzkrieg, sustained offensive, or defensive posture. Each posture has impact on combat capabilities, supply and fuel usage, APs (action points), fatigue. I have played the campaign through without ever changing off blitzkrieg posture - my Panzer armies were sucking air, my infantry were flopping on the ground, by mid October. Then I have tried the campaign with an arbitrary timetable for when I'd switch over to sustained offensive, and then I have tried a campaign with using the reports carefully, on combat losses, fuel usage, fatigue, to determine when to change posture. Just altering this one single aspect of play, and I have played much different campaigns.

There are so many factors like 'posture' in this game that give it so much replayability.

[Templer_12]

You already completed campaigns?
Do this means the game seems not to be long time fun? [:(]

[zakblood]

no, what he means is it is long term fun, as there's plenty of opportunity for re playability regarding the options used and chosen, as even with the same settings used, no 2 games are the same[;)]

There are so many factors like 'posture' in this game that give it so much re playability.

[&o]

edited (typo) [X(]

[rjh1971]

I keep reading complains about the game having only one scenario, we'll I have said before playing as Russian or German is a world apart on how you have to focus your strategy. Besides are you guys all retired or teenagers? I bet most of us are in our forties or fifties , have a real life, family duties, work... And sadly little time to spare, so why do you want more scenarios you won't have time to play. If you like DC series and ATG you won't regret buying this one, the price you're going to pay for the hours of playing is not too much imho.
Imo the game is a gem and has many possibilities of replay.
VR will release a full scenario editor (valid to also make scenarios from scratch) in a few weeks, so modders out there will probably go crazy and offer the rest of us new scenarios.
Well my recommendation is grab the game, besides it will surely be released in Steam and we will all get a free copy in it.

[dox44]

rjh1971 thanks!

[DerGrenadier]

Dont get me wrong. Iam really interested in this game as there is alot of positive feedback. I loved the first DC and had great fun with it. In the second DC I couldnt get past the tutorials and I dont know why but something felt “wrong“. Then I got Advanced Tactics in a sale and I was utterly disappointed. Fortunately money is no issue for me but somehow Iam not willing to spent 50,- to see if I like it. A demo would be much appreciated.

[Tamas]

ORIGINAL: Templer

You already completed campaigns?
Do this means the game seems not to be long time fun? [:(]

He is one of the beta testers [;)]

[Tac2i]

Advanced Tactics is my absolute favorite wargame. It has the best random game creation feature of any game I know. Sorry to hear you did not like it. If your interest in wargames is purely historical simulations, then it would not be your cup of tea exactly. I expect that one day it will be brought up to DC standards. It was released in Spring 2011 but Vic has constantly improved it over the years.

ORIGINAL: DerGrenadier
Then I got Advanced Tactics in a sale and I was utterly disappointed

[DerGrenadier]

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Advanced Tactics is my absolute favorite wargame. It has the best random game creation feature of any game I know. Sorry to hear you did not like it. If your interest in wargames is purely historical simulations, then it would not be your cup of tea exactly. I expect that one day it will be brought up to DC standards. It was released in Spring 2011 but Vic has constantly improved it over the years.

ORIGINAL: DerGrenadier
Then I got Advanced Tactics in a sale and I was utterly disappointed

Thx for your answer Webizen. My kind of games is in the range of CommandOps2, Combat Mission or Command Modern Air Naval Operations. So Iam not sure if this turn based game fits my taste. On the other hand it has some nice features that Iam really interested in. And so I have to repeat myself, a Demo would be fantastic.

[Templer_12]

Just watched Twitch live "Barbarossa Soviet Stream! (Nov 26th 20:00 CET / 19:00 UTC / 2:00 PM EST)".
Very interesting. I'm impressed.

The game seems really to be tuned to higher gaming.
Even the book! Has anyone ever seen this crazy pile of paper? It's a folio with a hardcover! [X(]
Something like this has not even given to the best times of the PC gaming in the 90'.

[zakblood]

well everyone did say it was different

glad you enjoyed it[;)]

[Templer_12]

Oh yes, I enjoyed the Twitch show.
Surtur made a great presentation, even the fact I'm not interessted in the Russian side.

[gwgardner]

ORIGINAL: Templer

You already completed campaigns?
Do this means the game seems not to be long time fun? [:(]

I was a playtester. Been playing the game since Feb.