Glvaca v Panzerjeager Hortlund (no Hortlund)

[glvaca]

LOSSES

Finally, losses.

[glvaca]

T1 thoughts

I spend way more time on turns that I used too. And make some stupid mistakes along the way. For instance using the G key instead of the B key costs me about 10 precious AP's [:@]
As to my overall plan, I have one but can't share that much [:'(]

What I can say is that I'm going for the jackpot. In 1941, the German player has to be ambitious. Besides, focussing on 1 or 2 objectives will allow the Soviet player to do the same. You must apply pressure everywhere in order to force the Russian player to spread out his forces or prioritize
what he's going to defend. I don't have a fixed time table but intend to dictate the pace of operations and grab any chance to pocket as many units as I can. Additionally, with RR costs increased, it will be much harder for the Soviet player to execute a Sir Robin unless he's prepared to
sacrifice a lot of industry. Which, if the recent AAR's are a good reference, will have a serious impact later in the game.

As to the combat engine it feels right although I still have that feeling that Armor is seriously underrated as an offensive weapon. On turn 4 I had a held result against a riffle division (no forts) in light woods with a deliberate attack (HQ in range) by 1st Panzer Div. [X(]
But I'm not complaining, I'm having fun!

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: glvaca
But, with FBD5 inexplicably missing I need to improvise. I'm also a little surprised that I can't enter Hungary to rail an FBD in. How did 11th Army get to Rumania in the first place?

Those of us with fond memories of FBD5 still mourn its loss at the beginning.

It is on the arrivals list - it will turn up when you do not need it so much anymore!

Germany did have prewar agreements about using rail in Hungary. But I understand it was a sharing agreement with normal peacetime traffic - and as Germany did not tell Hungary early about the invasion it took time to gear up. So I am guessing they are reflecting that. Although I think we should still be allowed to go the long way around Hungary if we chose.

ORIGINAL: glvaca
As to the combat engine it feels right although I still have that feeling that Armor is seriously underrated as an offensive weapon. On turn 4 I had a held result against a riffle division (no forts) in light woods with a deliberate attack (HQ in range) by 1st Panzer Div. [X(]

I think this was deliberate change. Trying to stop panzerball and encourage panzers to go around Soviet units as was the case historically. Too often I have seen panzer divisions as the main attacker on cities, forts, taking Leningrad etc and that was never the case.

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: glvaca
But, with FBD5 inexplicably missing I need to improvise. I'm also a little surprised that I can't enter Hungary to rail an FBD in. How did 11th Army get to Rumania in the first place?

Those of us with fond memories of FBD5 still mourn its loss at the beginning.

It is on the arrivals list - it will turn up when you do not need it so much anymore!

Germany did have prewar agreements about using rail in Hungary. But I understand it was a sharing agreement with normal peacetime traffic - and as Germany did not tell Hungary early about the invasion it took time to gear up. So I am guessing they are reflecting that. Although I think we should still be allowed to go the long way around Hungary if we chose.

ORIGINAL: glvaca
As to the combat engine it feels right although I still have that feeling that Armor is seriously underrated as an offensive weapon. On turn 4 I had a held result against a riffle division (no forts) in light woods with a deliberate attack (HQ in range) by 1st Panzer Div. [X(]

I think this was deliberate change. Trying to stop panzerball and encourage panzers to go around Soviet units as was the case historically. Too often I have seen panzer divisions as the main attacker on cities, forts, taking Leningrad etc and that was never the case.

1. Re: Hungary rail and FBD5, If I was thinking on how to limit the effect of certain changes that help the Germans, this would be an easy and effective way to limit certain other advantages. [:)]
If it works I'm all for.

2. I would agree (and for much I do) but in this case the unit was well rested, first combat, and a deliberate attack with very good support for SU's and LW. Freak rolls must be possible, war is not math (sorry VonKleist [;)] and it forces concentration of power, ie. redundancy. IT's the only real combat result I even remember as odd so I'm a happy bunny [:D]

[EwaldvonKleist]

war is not math

Not?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

war is not math

Not?

Maths is eternity

[bigbaba]

hortlund is a very good player. playing against him actually and we are in the last mud turns before the 4 winter turns and then the blizzard come. he lost so far only 3 million reds and is absolutely capable of getting a good blizzard offensive. you will have fun and a lot of gray heads because of him.


he may be able to open the central and Lvov pocket (like silly did in my game) but let's see his response.
good luck.

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

war is not math

Not?

Hate break it to you: war is chaos [:'(]

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

war is not math

Not?

Maths is eternity

That I can agree with [;)]

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

hortlund is a very good player. playing against him actually and we are in the last mud turns before the 4 winter turns and then the blizzard come. he lost so far only 3 million reds and is absolutely capable of getting a good blizzard offensive. you will have fun and a lot of gray heads because of him.


he may be able to open the central and Lvov pocket (like silly did in my game) but let's see his response.
good luck.

I'm already grey, and my girl thinks its sexy so I'm not worried [:D]
I can tell he's very good. Just got my T5 and he's playing it very cool.

He did open the Lvov pocket and what's more, he immediately grasped it would be my main RR and did everything he could to delay me.
There was to much un-zoced terrain to break the centre. Anyway, more soon.

[glvaca]

TURN2 NORTH

The Panzers have plenty of movement and I exploit over a broad front. He only leaves 1 division in a swamp hex which I zoc loc to interfere with the
infantry moving up. The Baltic is cleared. Von Manteins Corps gets an extra Motorized division from 3rd PzG.

[glvaca]

TURN2 CENTRE

The pocket holds and reduction begins. I basically leave low morale units in 2 Corps, one from 9th and one from 4th Army, to do the clean-up. Their morale raises quickly.
I cross the Berezina in 2 places against light resistance, secure my supply lines and prepare to wait for the infantry. In retrospect I should probably have kicked out that sec ant but it's identity didn't become clear until I had already deployed.
He leaves 2 infantry divisions &, curiously, Western Front in Minsk. Happy to bypass and isolate. The usual Para Bgde's in the swamps but I decline to attack them.
I'm surprised he's not contesting the Berezina more strongly. Even a few units well placed can seriously eat in Pz Mvpts.
I also could have crossed the Dnepr but decline, done that before and the supply situation is just to horrible.
A small satisfying detail, a tank division just one hex from Daugavpils routes back West [:'(]

[glvaca]

TURN2 SOUTH

The BL pocket is cleared, the Kovel pocket almost.
As expected, the Lvov pocket is re-opened (next picture).
I content myself with exploiting East and herding some units into pocket, the 2 inf. Divs. in the Swamp have had multiple hasties and retreats so I feel confident it will hold. Curiously, he does not disband any forts of the Stalin line. It soaks up mvpts, but it's little more than a speed bump at high cost in ARMS.
Granted, a lack of AP's might have something to do with it. This is not meant as criticism just an observation.

[glvaca]

TURN2 SOUTH2
Here it get interesting. He re-opens the pocket right where I want to start my main RR with some pretty decent units. This requires a forceful re-action to clear the way for next turn. Luckily, the Pz Div is in excellent shape and combined with German & Rum. inf. I put up a solid wall.
He starts his nuisance raids into Hungary and I'm thinking oh yes, pls do and activate the whole lot but that turns out a mistake [;)]

For the rest nothing special.

[glvaca]

AIR losses

Suffice to say he's keeping his Air force in play...

[glvaca]

GROUND

Not sure if this what's considered "on-track" or "behind the curve".

[glvaca]

TURN2 thoughts

The first 2 turns are still pretty familiar so are more or less programmed. I do need to work on the opening in the South to keep the Lvov pocket closed as I now need to spend much more infantry to keep it under control than I would like to.
In retrospect perhaps I should have made a drive SE towards Odessa to cut of what seems a sizable force but elect not to.

Question, what do others do with all these Rumanian airbases? there are so many that you would actually think they have an airforce the size of Germany [:D]
I've already disbanded 2 but unsure to disband more. Secondly, what will happen with all those SU when Army Group Anton disbands? Will they go to Rum High Command?

I've deliberately not taken screenies from starting positions. These first turns have been hashed to dead.
I'm also replacing soon to be departing air groups with 109E3's, no sense in letting them withdraw with the best fighters.

Besides re-assigning Divisions I've only replaced 2 Corps leaders:
I Corps => Model
II Corps => Hollidt

I also notice that dropping fuel is seriously reduced in efficiency.

Oh, and a nice change is the high amount of trucks that get captured. Me wants them [;)]

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: glvaca
Secondly, what will happen with all those SU when Army Group Anton disbands? Will they go to Rum High Command?

If you have IIRm Corps locked or it is not otherwise under command of AGAnt they will all flow up to RHC. If not perhaps one or two construction and the pioneer will go to IIRm Corps plus other types depending on your SU support levels, and the rest to RHC. If coming from a much older version as I did - do not fear! All SUs can be assigned down from RHC to 3rd and 4th Rm armies and below, and at no AP cost. Before having AGS and distance blocking the flow of allied SUs was a real pain. Perhaps one or two constructions might do some rail repair in Bessarabia from RHC. But I think you may need to think then about assigning them to a Rumanian field HQ and hanging it back close to rail lines so they mostly do do auto rail repair - if that is what you want. It is still a few turns before AGAnt disbands.

ORIGINAL: glvaca
I also notice that dropping fuel is seriously reduced in efficiency.

Coming from an older version I noticed that too. But I also noticed the bringing an airbase close to the unit you are refueling seriously increases efficiency. I have had a few fuel drops with zero losses of fuel - unheard of in earlier versions. That said I think 1.11 is going to reverse this. There are several alternative uses for the Rumanian airbases - perhaps that is one (not sure if they improve LW fuel drops though?)

ORIGINAL: glvaca
In retrospect perhaps I should have made a drive SE towards Odessa to cut of what seems a sizable force but elect not to.

Not sure if you played the older versions when the rail line just north of Rumania was blocked from turn 1 - on some version they moved Axis back from the border so that was no longer the case. So just cutting the lines at Proskurov and leaving the pocket open but without rail no longer works. In the team game being played with PH there was a plan to leave the Rumanian forces frozen for two turns and then the Axis to go first on turn three with the Soviets still in their start positions - it only did not work out because of a confusion on the manual description of the freezing requirements. And going for Odessa, if linking up with forces coming out through Kishiniev can mean a bigger pocket, very short supply lines to your advanced motorised units and little time to dig at Odessa. I think there is a lot to be said for it.

ORIGINAL: glvaca
I'm also replacing soon to be departing air groups with 109E3's, no sense in letting them withdraw with the best fighters.

And departing bombers with Ju-86s? On this version their range is less than a fighter!
If you wait a few turns for one of the manual swaps, you can do it for just over 20 109E-3s, the others having gone in conversions, exports and replacements in your later withdrawing airgroups. So you can actually reduce the number of fighters being withdrawn net.

ORIGINAL: glvaca
He leaves 2 infantry divisions &, curiously, Western Front in Minsk.

Based on our team game against Panzerjaeger Hortlund I think PH has a "thing" about getting Pavlov killed. [:)]

[bigbaba]

i let most of the Romanian air bases in Romania and take only 2 with me with the fighters, transporters (?) and the tactical bombers. that saves few trucks and improves the overall supply situation.

btw: interesting location for rail repair in the south.

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: glvaca
Secondly, what will happen with all those SU when Army Group Anton disbands? Will they go to Rum High Command?

If you have IIRm Corps locked or it is not otherwise under command of AGAnt they will all flow up to RHC. If not perhaps one or two construction and the pioneer will go to IIRm Corps plus other types depending on your SU support levels, and the rest to RHC. If coming from a much older version as I did - do not fear! All SUs can be assigned down from RHC to 3rd and 4th Rm armies and below, and at no AP cost. Before having AGS and distance blocking the flow of allied SUs was a real pain. Perhaps one or two constructions might do some rail repair in Bessarabia from RHC. But I think you may need to think then about assigning them to a Rumanian field HQ and hanging it back close to rail lines so they mostly do do auto rail repair - if that is what you want. It is still a few turns before AGAnt disbands.

ORIGINAL: glvaca
I also notice that dropping fuel is seriously reduced in efficiency.

Coming from an older version I noticed that too. But I also noticed the bringing an airbase close to the unit you are refueling seriously increases efficiency. I have had a few fuel drops with zero losses of fuel - unheard of in earlier versions. That said I think 1.11 is going to reverse this. There are several alternative uses for the Rumanian airbases - perhaps that is one (not sure if they improve LW fuel drops though?)

ORIGINAL: glvaca
In retrospect perhaps I should have made a drive SE towards Odessa to cut of what seems a sizable force but elect not to.

Not sure if you played the older versions when the rail line just north of Rumania was blocked from turn 1 - on some version they moved Axis back from the border so that was no longer the case. So just cutting the lines at Proskurov and leaving the pocket open but without rail no longer works. In the team game being played with PH there was a plan to leave the Rumanian forces frozen for two turns and then the Axis to go first on turn three with the Soviets still in their start positions - it only did not work out because of a confusion on the manual description of the freezing requirements. And going for Odessa, if linking up with forces coming out through Kishiniev can mean a bigger pocket, very short supply lines to your advanced motorised units and little time to dig at Odessa. I think there is a lot to be said for it.

ORIGINAL: glvaca
I'm also replacing soon to be departing air groups with 109E3's, no sense in letting them withdraw with the best fighters.

And departing bombers with Ju-86s? On this version their range is less than a fighter!
If you wait a few turns for one of the manual swaps, you can do it for just over 20 109E-3s, the others having gone in conversions, exports and replacements in your later withdrawing airgroups. So you can actually reduce the number of fighters being withdrawn net.

ORIGINAL: glvaca
He leaves 2 infantry divisions &, curiously, Western Front in Minsk.

Based on our team game against Panzerjaeger Hortlund I think PH has a "thing" about getting Pavlov killed. [:)]

Interesting idea's and feedback WRT the Rumanian airbases and the SU's.

He's not a fan of Pavlov is he [:D]