Korut Zelva vs Taxman66: Battle of the newbie

[Taxman66]

That cant be true. That would be a free 200 or 250 mpp worth of Gar units, not even counting transportation costs. That has to be why the DE is costly.

[OxfordGuy3]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

That cant be true. That would be a free 200 or 250 mpp worth of Gar units, not even counting transportation costs. That has to be why the DE is costly.

There's also a Corp unit, as well as the GARS, they are all understrength and reinforcements would need to be paid for, though

[crispy131313]

Norway has it's own forces, if they join diplomatically those are not "free" garrisons.

[KorutZelva]

Yes it skips you the cost of amphibious transports (and of transports back for anything not staying for garrison), but it also frees up troops & Air for operation in France and eliminate the risk of potential interception by the RN and french navy. Given that the going price for a defenseless Denmark was 50, 180 for Norway is quite a bargain (if you intend to conquer it anyway).

Figured I could commit troops to do it manually on the cheap but Norway too far to paradrop and insta conquer without long range tech as I'm finding out... I could probably still take it but not in the quick surrender I need to avoid having UK corps showing up in ports. Live and learn...

[OxfordGuy3]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Norway has it's own forces, if they join diplomatically those are not "free" garrisons.

Yes, that's well-known, but KorutZelva also said "Defenders will appear no matter how you conquer norway, it's not tied to the decisions AFAIK", which was implying you get the free German garrison and Corps even if you conquer the country not via the DE.

BTW if the Axis gain Norway diplomatically, Norway's own forces are pretty pathetic and not enough IMHO to defend Norway against a serious Allied invasion later in the game. Sweden is probably the only Scandinavian country that might be worth trying to gain diplomatically, has a decent-sized army AND fleet, also a Fighter

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: Early/Mid May 1940 * sorry didn't write the date down and then it was too late.

There is a bit of a French scramble, mostly the units that pulled out of the maginot line and all of it out of my opponent's view.

Terrible poked around the waters of North Eastern Denmark and discovered German paratroopers and Medium bombers near Aalborg.
She signaled Tourville which came in and shelled the airfield with several of the 203mm main guns scoring direct hits.

French forces launched a coordinated attack against the undermanned and obsolete equipped German Corps that squeezed between Strasbourg and Mulhouse.

British Whitley Tactical bombers, escorted by Hurricanes and Spitfire I's struck at the German army near Calais, with mixed results. Appearing to have taken more damage in the air battle than they
dished out to German forces in the air and on the ground.

-------
Miss-clicks are going to get me killed at some point in this game.
I'm still trying to get used to the lack of the undo (or whatever it is called) button in this game and need to be much
more careful. Particularly when I'm effectively done and should not poke around. [X(][:@][8|]

[KorutZelva]

Sorry this one is a bit off center, I scrambled to take a screen cap after I pressed end of turn.

Nancy, Chalons and Belfort falls. Lille bypassed and besieged. In the Baltic Sea, the Terrible living up to his name and ambushing a U-boat that wanted to lay set an ambush next to the bomber.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: June 8, 1940

The French shuffle their line slightly. Their doom is coming and they know it, but how long can they stall and
just as importantly how many Germans can they take down with them?

In Lille, everything resembling a firearm is handed out to anyone willing hold one.
In Paris the last of the Char B1 bis tanks roll out and Gamelin finally gets the full staffing he requested 9 months ago.
In Auxerre the quartermaster delivers an extra set of pants to each of the militia men. 'Surplus from the departing BEF' they're told.
Opening the boxes, they discover they're all brown.

Meanwhile Terrible and the sub continue to square off, neither willing to depart. Terrible continues to get the better of it.
Tourville continued the shelling of the airfield with less luck, this time managing to only destroy the latrine, and some stored food.

The Courageous launched a raid on the bombers and was intercepted by Me109s stationed in southern Denmark. A second raid
was then launched this time protected by the air wing from Glorious. Results of the raids were mixed. The British Admrility
can only hope that the losses were near equal and the real damage is delay and irritation.

The BEF, threatened to be cut off and with the defenders of Lille down to their last stand are evacuated home. Her two supporting Corps
are seen heading West.

[Taxman66]

Admril Raeder: "What's this I'm hearing about a new flag the French ships are flying?"
Staffmember: "Sir! Not all the French ships, just those being a nuisance in the Baltic."
Raeder: "Do you have a report?"
Staffmember: "Sorry, no; Sir. We did get a picture however."
Raeder: "Let me see it."

[KorutZelva]

June 19, 1940

The reign of terror of the terrible has ended! The U-Boats make a sortie to harrass Uk'S Carrier but have to settle for cruisers and battleships. The Uk sub shows that subs with experience are to be reckoned with, getting the better of an exchange between it and germany's two destroyers. Germany slowly tightening the noose around Paris. No air intercept this turn.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: June 30, 1940 Remember the Terrible!


The Common Wealth Capital ships withdraw from the waters west of Northern Denmark, as Destroyers swarm in to go after the U-boats causing
significant damage and nearly sinking one them, it barely escaping via emergency diving away from a potentially sinking attack.

French Defenders dig in around Paris.
To no one's surprise, except the French, the French tanks aren't on the same scale as the German Panzers. They counter
attack a German Corps north of them with barest of victories (FR Tanks 2 dmg, GE Corps 3 dmg).
There is also a minor attack from Metz and surroundings on the German Corps south of Luxenbourg with 1 dmg to a corps on each side.
*Technically I don't believe the Germans can see the AA unit, but it is obvious where it is so I left in the picture.

Will the French hold out another turn?
Will Germany go for the whole pastry, or be satisfied with a Vichy donut?
Just what was the recipe that had all those Paris bakers in a titter?
Stay Tuned!
Same Newbie AAR Time
Same Newbie AAR Channel

----
Drat! I nearly had my first perma-killed German unit.

Newbie Mistake: I forgot to move the Soviets... Doh!

[Taxman66]

Watching you go all out on the Salmon (the UK sub) with the bombers, fighters and 2 destroyers and only getting 3 dmg while taking 3 (or 4?) damage to your destroyers was surprising. Those 2 pips of exp
do make a big difference. Imagine if I had time or MPP (time maybe, but not the MPP) to put elite reinforcements on her!

It's an additional and hidden cost to Germany of not raiding the convoy lines. You not only fail to reduce the MPP you're not making your subs better. Of course if you do raid it makes organizing a sea lion that much harder.

[KorutZelva]

Paris holds for now but is completely surrounded, both HQ and AA are gone. Lyon falls... Forgot to mention that the USSR went for bessarabia and the baltic states.

Italy still stalling their war entry... if the french navy wants a go at the italian one, they'll have to declare war first!

[OxfordGuy3]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Newbie Mistake: I forgot to move the Soviets... Doh!

I've done that before (not after Barbarossa, though!), also forgetting to move the Brits in Iraq (multiple times) and many, many other careless mistakes (like accidentally buying a fighter when I meant to buy a tactical bomber...)

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: OxfordGuy3

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Norway has it's own forces, if they join diplomatically those are not "free" garrisons.

Yes, that's well-known, but KorutZelva also said "Defenders will appear no matter how you conquer norway, it's not tied to the decisions AFAIK", which was implying you get the free German garrison and Corps even if you conquer the country not via the DE.

Hi

Just thought I'd clarify that the German units that arrive in Norway are contingent on saying yes to the German invasion Decision, the Axis won't get these units any other way.

Bill

[OxfordGuy3]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

ORIGINAL: OxfordGuy3

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Norway has it's own forces, if they join diplomatically those are not "free" garrisons.

Yes, that's well-known, but KorutZelva also said "Defenders will appear no matter how you conquer norway, it's not tied to the decisions AFAIK", which was implying you get the free German garrison and Corps even if you conquer the country not via the DE.

Hi

Just thought I'd clarify that the German units that arrive in Norway are contingent on saying yes to the German invasion Decision, the Axis won't get these units any other way.

Bill

Thanks. If the Axis want Norway, looks like the only economical way to do this is via the DE. Denmark can be worth invaded normally, though.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

ORIGINAL: OxfordGuy3

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Norway has it's own forces, if they join diplomatically those are not "free" garrisons.

Yes, that's well-known, but KorutZelva also said "Defenders will appear no matter how you conquer norway, it's not tied to the decisions AFAIK", which was implying you get the free German garrison and Corps even if you conquer the country not via the DE.

Hi

Just thought I'd clarify that the German units that arrive in Norway are contingent on saying yes to the German invasion Decision, the Axis won't get these units any other way.

Bill

Booooooo...

Must I have been mixed-up with a previous SC iteration. It totally should though. I mean, as a reward for not being lazy.

[Taxman66]

ORIGINAL: OxfordGuy3

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Newbie Mistake: I forgot to move the Soviets... Doh!

I've done that before (not after Barbarossa, though!), also forgetting to move the Brits in Iraq (multiple times) and many, many other careless mistakes (like accidentally buying a fighter when I meant to buy a tactical bomber...)

Earlier I had the BEF Army miss-click itself out of entrenchment in Calais, in full view (if he watched the replay).
I was worried my opponent would take the opportunity to mangle or kill it. Doing so might (or might not of slowed him
by a turn (if not then Paris would be a bit more defended this turn).

I really still have no definitive determination on what his post France plans are. There is evidence for Sea-Lion (minimal raiding by the one sub starting in the Atlantic and even the Deutschland hasn't been seen since a brief skirmish with the Canadian DD)
There is evidence against Sea-Lion as well (the fact that he didn't make any effort against the BEF and that there are 5 panzer units running around on the map).

Other things about being a newbie:
I can look at the charts and see how much he invested in Research... but I don't know if it is at/above/below the average. So I'm not sure if I should try the Soviet cheap GAR road blocks (i.e. vs. fewer units) or just smaller better farther away lines.
Of course if he does land in England, the Soviet strategy gets a bit easier.

I underestimated just how bad off France is in preparing for war. I figured I'd skip Supporting Finland to save the 75MPP (really sorta giving it to the UK to pay for their permanent SF unit); but it still wasn't enough to get everything done. I built only
2 units (1 GAR initially for Alps defense; and the AA which I was hoping to be a surprise, but he didn't attack the line where I thought he would). I did pick up the Eng unit for 80 (50 + 30 IIRC to operate it). If I get lucky with the 20% chance and keep it,
it will be worth it. Otherwise I think I would've rather spent the MPP elsewhere. I also thought about retrieving the Syrian Corp, but figured the longer Italy was out the fewer MPP she would have and it didn't seem cost effective to buy a GAR, transport it to
Syria so I could transport the Syrian Corp home. It appears you can really only afford to buy 1 halfway decent unit for France. I should run tests to see if the AA (when it engages) is worth it, or if it would be better to pick up the Mech like the AI likes to do,
or perhaps an Anti-Tank.

Another thought, instead of operating the French Eng unit, move it to a port and ship it to Egypt. See how many forts it can build before France falls.

[KorutZelva]

Didn't know it was a miss click, I figured it was the albions trying to save damage to their land assets at all cost.

I thought the jig was up after my initial push that I intended to cut france north to south to isolate the maginot line. Luckily for me, I think you got creedy about the prospect to pot shot my un-upgraded corp.

I find un-upgraded AA rather underwhelming. They only fire twice too to technically you can send less desirable assets to lure its fire to preserve your good bombers. Still, it's a cheap way to occupy an hex and it ended up withstanding more fire than your typical corp.

[Taxman66]

I got 3 of maginot line defenders out, wasn't expecting or trying to get out the ones in the cities. They're less useful but faster corps *except at Strasbourg*. It's why I did the shuffle so there would be armies all along the Belgian/Lux border. If you wanted to fight through the corps in the maginot while they were reentrenching and you were rushing back from Poland more power to you. The hope was that the AA would be a surprise when you hit the clear hexes closer to Paris. When you didnt go that way I had to drag it back to Paris. It got seen along the way and so the surprise was lost. I'm not sure what the best choice is. If they could get a Fighter I'd go for that but those armies/corps have to be reinforced, partially at least, and then it is too late to try for a fighter.

The killer (other than just being pathetic France), was not having the MPPs to upgrade the HQs. Though that is partly my fault for being a bit greedy and mostly due to the early good weather.