Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

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Luckschaden
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:13 pm

RE: Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

Post by Luckschaden »

ORIGINAL: Dimitris
ORIGINAL: Luckschaden
ORIGINAL: KungPao

Final PH = Weapon Base PH- max{distance adjustment; target speed adjustment<1>} – [A/C Agility at current Altitude x Proficiency coefficient<2> x Weight adjustment coefficient x (1-damage%) x impact location coefficient] – Sea skimmer modifier

Is it really that "simple"? My understanding was that the engine does more realistic calculations under the hood but doesn't tell non PE users about it. I thought things like afterburners making an aircraft more visibile to IR missiles, for instance, would be modeled.

No, it's not that simple. Some people try too hard to shoehorn Command into their Excel spreadsheets instead of playing the goddamn game.

The sequence that KungPao describes is just the kinematic evasion step, which is the very, very last step in the entire engagement chain.

Before that you have the actual detections, both for the weapon carrier and the weapon itself, in pre-launch checks and afterwards in mid-course guidance (this is where the afterburner-IR stuff you mentioned comes into play). OECM is also effective here as it can break lock in mid-course (e.g. interrupt SARH illumination).

Then (if the weapon actually reaches the target) you have the endgame phase with the target then first attempting to use DECM, then expendable decoys / chaff / flares as appropriate.

Then, if nothing else works, you have the kinematic evasion.

And yes, there is a lot of stuff going on that the message log doesn't tell you about. You want to see e.g. the raw surface clutter calculations? It's enough of an info-waterfall as it is already.

Just play the game.
Huh, interesting.

Is there more detailed descriptions of those calculations somewhere? (Not formulas, but sort of a general description). I'd be interesting to see what sort of factors influence the outcome.
rmunie0613
Posts: 202
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RE: Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

Post by rmunie0613 »

ORIGINAL: Dimitris
ORIGINAL: fatgreta1066
As a separate issue, is there any way to know when I've been detected by radar?

Enemies come towards you and start shooting at you. Usually that's a pretty reliable indicator.

[:D][:D][:D]
rmunie0613
Posts: 202
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RE: Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

Post by rmunie0613 »

^^^ That really is the best "final sign".
You can tell a bit, when they start "coming towards you" as the first sign, when your contact reports, radar or otherwise show them suddenly speed up, turn, etc... works well for the ASW part also, in fact.
Just remember that there may also be enemies you are not seeing, as well- so the fact the one you do see has not changed course or speed does not mean you are entirely clear, either.
BrianinMinnie
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RE: Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

Post by BrianinMinnie »

Recently I’ve also attempted to play this scenario, so far I’ve been unable to crack the F15 nut. My aim 120’s don’t seem to be as lethal against the f15’s as they are against me, although after reading a couple of tips here I’ve started to shoot and scoot and it appears to be working a little better.

While I can see them before they see me, my 120’s don’t want to lock on for a kill unless I turn my radar on and as noted above, they then “see” me and return fire with very solid results against me. If I don’t radiate, my 120’s miss a large portion of the time.

Against the f16’s success comes easier and because of their inferior radar I can get closer, shoot scoot and survive the return fire.

Are we sure that the f-15’s survivability factor (for various reasons) isn’t too high? Or are they just that bad a**.

Scoring seems slanted towards killing something other the fighters also as noted, but so far I’ve been just trying to destroy the fighter cover before attempting air to ground sorties. No Joy!

edit: in further reading it never occured to me that the f35's are cadet setting? Does that make as big of a differnce when attempting shootdowns?



Thanks
Cik
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RE: Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

Post by Cik »

ORIGINAL: rmunie0613

^^^ That really is the best "final sign".
You can tell a bit, when they start "coming towards you" as the first sign, when your contact reports, radar or otherwise show them suddenly speed up, turn, etc... works well for the ASW part also, in fact.
Just remember that there may also be enemies you are not seeing, as well- so the fact the one you do see has not changed course or speed does not mean you are entirely clear, either.

it's a good indicator.

"bandits nose-on 40 nautical, angels 26"
"uh, 2, how do you know they're hostile?"
"they're doing mach 2"
"ah"

generally hot targets at high speeds mean 1. you are detected and 2. they mean to ruin your day.
edit: in further reading it never occured to me that the f35's are cadet setting? Does that make as big of a differnce when attempting shootdowns?


not as far as i know. it affects OODA timings and defensive maneuvering. as far as i know it doesn't (at least directly) affect your sensors and weapons performance. you just need to fix the fight so you never ever end up fired upon. that means ambushing or shooting from a range and aspect where return fire isn't possible.

though you may be able to sneak up on your prey, the chances that they will manage to return fire at close range (v. high lethality) is also very high so that should probably be avoided. if you are going to get close, you'll have to get so close that you will fire and the missile will hit them before they can attempt defensive maneuvering. if you splash both before they can beam out you can win without return fire. that might not be possible though depending. ultimately if you don't have enough -35 to kill from range, and you can't get close enough to win with the first shot, you may just be SOL.
thewood1
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Location: Boston

RE: Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

Post by thewood1 »

Proficiency has the following impact...

OODA (response times)
Air combat maneuvers
I am pretty sure minimum flight altitude and terrain following
and from 1.06 notes...

"Apart from making them configurable on a unit level, skill values now also have an even greater effect (e.g. when performing unguided weapon attacks, and in damage control) and their effects / modifiers are intensified. Novices and to a lesser extent cadets are now really lamb to the slaughter, while ace crews almost walk on water. Without knowing in advance just how capable an adversary you are facing (unless reliably pre-briefed), the ghastly uncertainties of combat become even more pronounced."

I got this from a couple release notes and just searching on "proficiency" I only put stuff up where the devs actually commented and confirmed. There might be others I missed. This is something I have wanted to do and the above comment gave me the willpower to do it.

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SeaQueen
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RE: Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

Post by SeaQueen »

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

And yes, there is a lot of stuff going on that the message log doesn't tell you about. You want to see e.g. the raw surface clutter calculations? It's enough of an info-waterfall as it is already.

That's what the references that pop up in the "Help" -> "About Command" are for, D. They're a "Get Out of Jail Free" card for when you run into electrical engineering geeks. [:D]
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wild_Willie2
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Location: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...

RE: Any way to improve accuracy for SAMs?

Post by wild_Willie2 »

Ok, because I had not played One Ship One Country, for a long time I retried it again and got a triumph at 1800 point without obtaining losses myself.

Send your AMRAAM AC north to a point east of Shaw AB, just out of AMRAAM range.
Send your JSOW loaded F-35's to a point about 35 miles SW of Beaufort at 0 feet (they are carrying external bombs and are not stealthy anymore so have to approach low in order to avoid detection).
Turn on the Jammers and radar on your AMRAAM carriers on fly towards Shaw launching all your missiles, and then head east at military trust. The F15's and F16's now get target fixation on these AC and your JSOW carriers can now climb to 12000 feet and head towards Beaufort at military trust. The F15's/16 will leave them alone now as they are trying to engage the AMRAAM carriers. Once in range launch all JSOW's at the Beaufort hangars and turn west. All AC must now go EMCON silent and speed east to avoid pursuit. Avoid all pursuit and RTB.

SIDE: Cabotia
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LOSSES:
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2x F-16C Blk 30 Falcon
18x C-5B Galaxy SOLL
3x A/C Hangar (2x Large Aircraft)
4x A/C Hangar (4x Large Aircraft)
1x F-15C Eagle
4x M113A3 APC
1x 20mm/100 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 1B CIWS [C-RAM Mod]
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