Axis air kills T1

[Hanny]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Hanny
https://www.worldwar2.ro/organizare/?article=23

Clearly says the IAR38 were designated as "Observation Flotilla" so perhaps the groups should be renamed from light bomber to that. So that would be a data correction?

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=45512.0

A quick look, RU Air assets is not something im well read on.

* The IAR-38 and 39 squadrons were attached to every corps or army command and were used to observe/photograph the front line and enemy troops movements. In total 11 squadrons (11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 19th, 20th, 21st and 22nd) and one light bomber squadron (18th) were operational

Its not clear to me when the lt bomber becomes operational, looks like it could be 42 or 41 certainly by July August as i see a mention of it,, i see no reason why they did not have 1 in 41 since they in theory could all have been.

Nice read of where the allied air assets mentioned came from.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/26274547?r ... b_contents

[juv95hrn]

Could someone expand on this?

1. You empty a few air bases from the back, to the most forward air bases with space?
2. You then push these now empty air bases up to the border, still empty and use them as staging bases for ground support (if any) to break the border garrisons?
3. The empty staging bases advances along with ground forces into USSR itself, while you ground support (if needed) with some level bombers (which ones are best so "sacrifice" for land combat?
4. Only when German ground forces are about to overrun an air base, do you air strike it with (which ones?) bombers from the air bases at starting positions? Or should you have transfered these bombers even closer before this stage?
5. Late in the turn, when encirclements are performed and ground movement is almost already done, you transfer some fighters and Stukas (or?) up far into USSR along with panzer spearheads, and strike air bases that were out of range from the start of the turn? (Around Smolensk, Kiev etc)? Wont this leave huge supply demands on air bases "stranded" far into Russia (say around Minsk T1)?

For a beginner its hard to decide where air bases should be positioned at what stage of the Kabuki dance. I kind of wish this excaggerated game feature was smoothened out in WITE2 or in a patch, because it feels needlessly complicated to learn, and execute.

Maybe a post turn 1 move scenario would be the solution to all gamey and complicated T1 manouvers?

Any basic and fundamental advice is appreciated, to decrease the research effort around this...

[Telemecus]

This post here might help just with the Kabuki dance as "business as usual" fb.asp?m=4612292

Here is the main picture in that post

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn
1. You empty a few air bases from the back, to the most forward air bases with space?

In the example above you only bring airbases forward which are surplus to requirements for the airgroups you leave further back - this should happen after you send some airgroups to elsewhere like the National Reserve so that you need fewer airbases for them than you did before.

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn
which ones are best so "sacrifice" for land combat?

It depends what you mean by sacrifice for land combat? if you mean instead of using for other missions my advice would be
i) If you can bomb enemy airfields to destroy key enemy aircraft (i.e. with accetpable losses on your part) do that first as you can only use the first 33% of your air miles to do that anyway.
ii) If there is a choice between leaving the airgroups to ground support or manually bombing units first then always go with the former as it is three times more effective. Only manually pre bomb units before a battle if it is a particularly important hex (e.g. to capture Moscow, cross the Neva, storm Sevastopol etc.)
iii) Leave other missions like say city bombing to last

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn
air bases at starting positions? Or should you have transfered these bombers even closer before this stage?
5. Late in the turn, when encirclements are performed and ground movement is almost already done, you transfer some fighters and Stukas (or?) up far into USSR along with panzer spearheads, and strike air bases that were out of range from the start of the turn? (Around Smolensk, Kiev etc)? Wont this leave huge supply demands on air bases "stranded" far into Russia (say around Minsk T1)?

That of course is the fundamental trade off - logistics versus number of missions. There are other ways to keep adequate supply for your airgroups but the key problem is losing lorries that you will need in the blizzard. The closer air groups are when they start their missions the fewer air miles they will need per mission, the more they can do. T1 is usually not much of a supply problem at all - it is really T8 onwards for the Axis when it starts to become critical. My suggestions is
i) Never move heavy aircraft (level bombers, transports, Ju88D1) off hexes which are not on rail lines
ii) Keep stukas, fighters and tac aircraft on hexes with repaired rail lines if possible, but if not keep them as close to a rail line as possible. Remember with a staging base you can extend their range by 50% over their radius - so a Ju87B can strike up to 15 hexes away. First of all decide which hexes you will need your stukas to operate in and choose a hex 15 hexes away that is the closest to a repaired rail line.
iii) very light aircraft such as the Fi156c keep as close as possible to the front lines - their fuel requirements are minimal so you will prefer many more missions from them

Here I am putting reducing the logistics cost first as I want to preserve as many lorries as possible for the winter. I can usually get very good air performance from this set up anyway, but maximise lorries for the blizzard. If you are prepared to sacrifice more lorries for the blizzard, then move your airbases further from rails and closer to the action.

[Shalkai]

@juv95hrn - Here's some pictures and the action list from my first turn German air attacks. I'm intermediate, not an expert, but my plan uses most of the things discussed. Air bases move up very near the border, and lots of air units transfer around to save air miles. (see top third of .jpg). Later in turn, airbases move forward past the border so they can reach more Soviet air bases (see middle third of .jpg for where 1st Fl.Korps and 8th Fl.Korps ended up). Results are in bottom of .jpg; just over 4600 planes destroyed.


Air reorg, starting with AGN. Luftflotte 1, 1st Fliegerkorps , 1st-5th Luftwaffe Air Bases.
1st LW Airbase - send one Ju52, one Ju88D, and Do17 to National Reserve. Choose units that got the worst of morale/readiness checks.
3rd LW AB - send Ju88D to 1LW AB. 3rd LW move to 49,48.
1 LW AB - assign to 1st Fliegerkorps. Send Ju88A to 3rd LW AB. Move 1LW AB to 49,49.
2 LW AB - move to 49,48.
15 LW AB - send all three Ju87 to 1 LW AB at 49,49.
4 LW AB - move to 49,49.
5 LW AB - send all four Ju88A to 4 LW AB at 49,49. Move 5 LW AB (for now) to 48,48. This will later be advanced AB.
1st FK and Luftflotte1 HQ units move to 48,49. AGN air now staged. First ground attacks will clear Soviet units east - AB will move up more.

AGC N of Bialystok - 8th Fliegerkorps, 12th-16th LW AB.
15 LW AB (just emptied) move to 50,52.
13 LW AB - send all three Bf110 to 15 LW AB. Move 13 LW AB to 49,53.
16 LW AB - send all (three Stuka, two Tac) to 13 LW AB. Move 16 LW AB to 50,52.
14 LW AB - send all (four Do17Z, two Ju88D) to 16 LW AB. Move 14 LW AB to 49,53.
12 LW AB - send all (four Bf109) to 14 LW AB. Move 12 LW AB to 49,52; 12th will later be advanced AB.
8th FK HQ move to 49,52.

AGC S of Bialystok - 2nd Fliegerkorps, 6,7,8,10,11 LW AB. Group up around 49,68, just W of Brest.
(first in AGS) 21 LW AB move to 50,79.
10 LW AB send two smaller Stuka groups to 21 LW AB.
11 LW AB move to 49,68
10 LW AB send Stuka Stab and last group to 11 LW AB. 10 LW AB move to 48,67.
7 LW AB send all five Bf109 to 10 LW AB. 7 LW AB move to 47,67.
9 LW AB send all four He111 to 7 LW AB. 9 LW AB move to 47,67.
8 LW AB send all three Ju88 to 9 LW AB. 8 LW AB move to 48, 67; 8th will later be advance AB.
6 LW AB send Do17P (set to night) to NR, send all three Bf109 to 11 AB at 49,68. 6 LW AB move to 48,68.
2nd FK HQ move to 48,68. Assign 6 LW AB to 2nd FK HQ.
Transfer 2.(F)ObdL Do17P Recon from NR to 6 LW AB (this one is set to day missions)

AGS N of Lvov - 5th Fliegerkorps, 17, 21, 22, 23, 24 LW AB. Group up around 49,79 north of Lvov.
21 LW AB already at 50,79 (see above) with 109s, Stukas, and a recon.
24 LW AB move to 49,79.
17 LW AB send 1.(F)Nacht to NR. 17 LW AB move to 50,78, assign to 5th FK.
18 LW AB send both Bf109 to 17 LW AB. Leave the empty 18 LW AB assigned to LuftFlotte 4; it will later move to Rumania to even out AB numbers.
23 LW AB send all three Ju88 to 24 LW AB. 23 LW AB move to 50,78.
22 LW AB send all four Ju88 to 23 LW AB. 22 LW AB move to 49, 78; 22nd will later be advance AB.
5th FK move to 49,79.
Luftflotte 4 and the empty 18 LW AB can remain where they are for now.

AGS in Rumania - 4th Fliegerkorps, 19, 20 LW AB. This group is on vacation but it is a working vacation.
19 LW AB move to 66,105. (4th FK is static this turn, so move the airbase within HQ range)
20 LW AB move to 66,105.