Any delusion I have had about US air superiority are shattered

[Gunner98]

MiG-23MLD Flogger K with AA-7 Apex D [R-24T, IR]

There is a big difference between the MiG-23MLD with IR missiles and teh MiG-23-ML, not only were Soviet pilots better than the ones the USAF has faught since 93 but thier aircraft were as well.


When all you have is SARH (Aim-7 especialy older ones like F's) and the bad guy has IR - you're better off going home and fighting another day! But if you have to, you need to work the engagement so you entice the bad guy into shooting at you with poor solutions. Your Aim-9Js are better than his A-8s so get in close - but an MLD can probably out maneuver an F-4 as well so be carefull of his cannon. This is tough match up.

Against the ML as you showed in post #18 you can work the advantage of a better AC since all he has is SARH as well.

B

[morphin]

In my experience the AIM-7 SARH is really a very very bad missile.

So you need to close a lot to the target before firing (i usually close 50% of weapon range before firing). Also the change for "running blind" increase a lot if the target can dive to the bottom.....

So set the WRA to not more than 50% and if possible shot at it when the target is flying high....
And the because of the SARH your AC is very vulnerable..

Otherise like Gunner98 says it depends a lot also the enemy AC

Andy

[JPFisher55]

When I play US fighters versus Soviet in this game, then, usually, the US fighters kill more aircraft than they lose. But the F-22 and the F-35 are not invulnerable in the game. However, I do not know if the results of this game would have, or will, reflect reality if, or when, the US fought the USSR, Russia or China in air to air combat.

[SeaQueen]

ORIGINAL: JPFisher55
When I play US fighters versus Soviet in this game, then, usually, the US fighters kill more aircraft than they lose. But the F-22 and the F-35 are not invulnerable in the game. However, I do not know if the results of this game would have, or will, reflect reality if, or when, the US fought the USSR, Russia or China in air to air combat.

While it's tempting to imagine the outcome of a Command run as perhaps predictive of how things might turn out in the future, I don't believe this is a wise way to interpret the outcome of a scenario.

Do keep in mind, there's a lot that doesn't play in Command (e.g. you have perfect C2), and there are a lot of things which play, but their representation is necessarily limited by the way Command works (e.g. electronic warfare). Therefore you shouldn't take the absolute attrition figures too seriously. Rather, the interesting bit is figuring out what makes you do better and worse. You want to see what makes things change. The other metric that I think is interesting is the exchange ratio, because in a larger scenario, you can think of it as an average over many encounters of sorts.

[KungPao]

Maybe it is just bad luck on dice roll

10:47:43 - 10:47:43 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3605 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 71%. PH adjusted for actual target speed (636 kts): 66%. Ikram #10 has nominal agility: 3, adjusted for altitude: 3. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 2.4. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.17 - Agility adjusted to 2.15. High-deflection impact (no effect on agility). Final agility modifier: -21%. Final PH: 45%. Result: 100 - MISS
10:47:37 - 10:47:37 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3602 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 62%. PH adjusted for actual target speed (646 kts): 57%. Ikram #10 has nominal agility: 3, adjusted for altitude: 3. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 2.4. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.18 - Agility adjusted to 2.15. High-deflection impact (no effect on agility). Final agility modifier: -21%. Final PH: 36%. Result: 74 - MISS
10:47:37 - 10:47:37 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3603 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 62%. PH adjusted for actual target speed (646 kts): 57%. Ikram #10 has nominal agility: 3, adjusted for altitude: 3. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 2.4. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.18 - Agility adjusted to 2.15. High-deflection impact (no effect on agility). Final agility modifier: -21%. Final PH: 36%. Result: 80 - MISS
10:47:03 - 10:47:03 - Weapon: AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4 #3600 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for actual target speed (578 kts): 95%. Ikram #10 has nominal agility: 3, adjusted for altitude: 3. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 2.4. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.19 - Agility adjusted to 2.13. Agility adjusted for rear-oblique impact effect: 1.8. Final agility modifier: -18%. Final PH: 77%. Result: 85 - MISS
10:47:03 - 10:47:03 - Weapon: AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4 #3600 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for actual target speed (578 kts): 95%. Ikram #10 has nominal agility: 3, adjusted for altitude: 3. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 2.4. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.19 - Agility adjusted to 2.13. Agility adjusted for rear-oblique impact effect: 1.8. Final agility modifier: -18%. Final PH: 77%. Result: 85 - MISS
10:46:26 - 10:46:26 - Weapon: AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4 #3598 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for actual target speed (748 kts): 95%. Ikram #10 has nominal agility: 3, adjusted for altitude: 1.8. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 1.44. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.2 - Agility adjusted to 1.27. Agility adjusted for rear-oblique impact effect: 1.1. Final agility modifier: -11%. Final PH: 84%. Result: 95 - MISS

I saw an Iranian J-7 evaded 3 AIM-120D and 3 AIM-9X before. Then he shot down several Tomahawk before RTB .

[dpabrams]

What I have learned is this:

Altitude and WRA is absolutely critical when attacking in air to air engagements. Previously, I was always cruising at 36K and not using WRA. Its seems best to attack in air to air engagements from 12-25K and set your WRA for weapons like the Sparrow III at 30-40 nm instead of the 55 nm max. Using this method a flight of 2x F-4E's with a heavy Sparrow III load out will consistently down 4x Mi-23 ML, MLD types without a loss.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: KungPao
10:47:43 - 10:47:43 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3605 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 71%. [...]

10:47:37 - 10:47:37 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3602 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 62%. [...]

10:47:37 - 10:47:37 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3603 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 62%. [...]

[Raptorx7_slith]

Playing/watching flight sims like DCS will give you a much greater appreciation for how important firing a weapon at its OPTIMUM range is versus firing at max. I used to think that firing at max all the time was the right thing to do but when you realize what its like to go defensive against SAM and air threats it becomes clear that that's a huge mistake. Obviously they don't have the exact data but you get a good idea of what its like when a missile is coming at you and what happens to it as you evade.

No missile is a magic bullet and there is always a way to counter it, especially those old Sparrows which are extremely vulnerable to notching. Even the AIM-120D which is at the pinnacle of air to air missile technology can't do anything about an aircraft that's decided to turn and run from it at 50nm. Its all about knowing your capabilities and the enemies.

[KungPao]

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

ORIGINAL: KungPao
10:47:43 - 10:47:43 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3605 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 71%. [...]

10:47:37 - 10:47:37 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3602 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 62%. [...]

10:47:37 - 10:47:37 - Weapon: AIM-9X Sidewinder #3603 is attacking Ikram #10 (J-7IIH Fishbed [MiG-21 Copy]) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for distance: 62%. [...]

yes, I have to release AIM-9X at max range. This is scenario "operation brass drum". after the AIM-120D missed my F/A-18Es were chasing that J-7. then 2x J-10 fired several PL-12. So I fired the AIM-9X at max range, turn on F/A-18Es' afterburner and running away from incoming PL-12s

[Kobu]

Hello
I never had seen this message "PH adjusted for actual target speed (636 kts)". Its a special option or anything??

Regards

[DWReese]

dpabrams,

No offense, but the results of your 'conclusion' is EXACTLY the same as to what I told you in Message #4 of this thread.

Doug

[DWReese]

That was added this within the last few months. It makes things much more realistic. If you have been playing with an older version then it is possible that you haven't seen it. It makes things much more realistic.

Doug

[SeaQueen]

So far my impression is that Soviet fighters, AAM's and the AI are far superior to any aircraft and missile I employ against them. I always assumed that a F-15 would mop up a MiG 23 any day all things being equal.

So what gives?

What tactics did you employ? Did you have the US shoot all their Sparrows and go home or did you have them merge and engage? There's just not nearly enough information to make a guess at this point.

[dpabrams]

ORIGINAL: DWReese

dpabrams,

No offense, but the results of your 'conclusion' is EXACTLY the same as to what I told you in Message #4 of this thread.

Doug

No offense, but the results of your 'conclusion' is EXACTLY the same as to what I told you in Message #4 of this thread.

None taken but I learn by doing. There is nothing written about "notching" or WRA settings that will increase your success in the manual. I think I am getting a grip on AAW, next up SEAD missions which I suck at.

[DWReese]

To me, the actual best part of the game lies within the WRA assignments as they pertain to missions. You can regulate exactly how you want the assets to fight. As you saw, shooting from a distance has a big impact on your percentages. But, getting too close is more dangerous. You have to know your opponent, and approach each situation individually depending on what equipment they have.

SEAD missions are fun. Adding TALDs (decoys) is also fun and is a part of SEAD. Getting the enemy to light up their radars to that you can shoot them can be challenging. If you want to have fun, don't let the target SAM units fire until the SEAD units get real close. There is great safety when shooting HARMs from 70 miles away. That safety goes away when you start shooting at 15 miles away.

SEAD attacks are fun.

You will find that if you assign planes to a Land Strike for the specific SAM (or radar) you will get a completely different response from the program than if you merely assign it to a generic Patrol Mission. The AI can do some weird things while in a Patrol Mission.

In any case, have fin experimenting. After all, that's what all of us are really doing.

Doug