Off Topic: Top Gun Trailer

[Alpha77]

Poor Maverick he now flies F18s when he was years ago in a better plane already [:D]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Poor Maverick he now flies F18s when he was years ago in a better plane already [:D]

He obviously flies the A2G mission(s) because of "Paveway" bombs... [;)]


Leo "Apollo11"

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Poor Maverick he now flies F18s when he was years ago in a better plane already [:D]

"Better" in a lot of ways, but not in all. As someone who worked maintenance on both I can tell you the F-18 is waaaay better to work on. It always was much better at A2G missions, even after they added bombing capability to the F-14's. It's significantly more maneuverable than the F-14 for dog fighting. Now, the F-14 was the very best in the world at it's primary mission, which was long range interception of incoming missiles and planes. It was built to carry the Phoenix missile and AWG-9 radar into combat and did these marvelously. The shorter range of the F-18 (even the E/F Super Hornets) limits it's effectiveness in this role compared to the Tomcat. The F-18 can just do many more things way better than the F-14.

I do miss seeing the Tomcats in the air and on the deck. I thought they were absolutely beautiful. It still amazes me that the Tomcat's wingspan was longer than the B-17! [X(]

[Alpha77]

Well I can relate as Harpoon player (as most know this was quite good for a "game" as there was a version with which actually the millitary trained).

If I have a CV group in Northern waters in range of Backfires and per coincidence a Russian SAG also appears, which includes perhaps a Slava or Kirow class, badass ships) if my CVs had only F18s it would be quite hairy to survive. Ok, some AEGIS cruisers might help but they can be overwhelmed too. BTW. the poor British/Norwegians struggled very much in the game often enough, cause their AA systems were on a whole too weak to survive a heavy LR missile strike...(in the GIUK gap or Norwegian waters scenarios). Even more hairy when the SU27s appeared their longer range compared to Mig29s and 2 more missiles and faster made quite a difference..

However the most important planes on a CV may be the EAW ones, or if you have a Sentry nearby. Range and early detection are vital..

Yes I heard already the SR of the F14 was 3 or 4 while for the F18 it is 1 or 2. Obviously if there is a heavy load on fighters one would choose the SR 3 plane still over the others (eg. most JFB say the Frank is a must even if SR3 - same for F14)

Also what use are your CV for bombing missions on the bottom of the ocean. I doubt the F18 can still put his good bomb load and accuracy for GA to work if his home carrier is struck by 4-5 LR Russian missiles cause the group failed to intercept the Russian bombers early enough so they could launch...

In game terms:

"HAI tonaka sana, we will strike the imperialists tomorrow with 100 bombers concentrated at this airfield!!!" BANNNZAII!

"Yamamoto san, the radar says planes are nearing!"

"No problem we also have fighter don´t we - send em up"

"We have 100 Oscar fighters ready, they will annihalate the enemy"

..... 2 hours later....

10 Oscars return....

"Where are the others?"

"mhhhh...ahem.. they were shot down by the 4E bombers and escorts and the strike is overhead now [:(]"

crash booom bang

"what happened ?"

"90 Oscars shot down in the air and 80 bombers destroyed on the ground. Who wants to report this to the emperor?"

"Not me, san, I advised we need a much better fighter than the Oscar he his too slow and has only 2 MGs "

"But we do not have a better one"

"Yes WE DO ! We have fighters named KI84, however the chief of the maintenance said they suck, too much work, bad service rate and the chief dates the generals daughter. So on his word we kept the Oscars instead the KI84 [:o] which is 50 miles faster, is more stable and has 2 more cannons than the Oscar. The 20mm cannons were proved against imperialsists bomber already"

"So because the maintenance was too lazy too really work day and night on the more difficult planes??? And as a result our airfield and planes trashed?? Thanks for this info [:@]...."

[Rusty1961]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... et-1225993

Can't upset our Chinese over-lords now, can we?

Hollywood is a whorehouse.

[Alpha77]

USS America, I will re-install Harpoon (I believe there is also a demo which has the GIUK missions) and if I have time just delete the F14s and instead give them F18s (perhaps a quite newer version is in the database too so I may use this one for fairness) or I can design a F35 and use this instead (these are too new and not in
the up to the end of 90ties database)

..and play some CV battle missions without F14s. I might report the results - perhaps at the weekend - not so much time to play...I can also recommend my scenario for Harpoon Gold called Red Lighting 2 btw. [;)]

Edit, I can not remember if service rating of individual planes are moddeled in Harpoon. They have a ready time this is clear, eg. a A2A mission might be readied faster than a strike mission etc. Planes generally land and then get readied which takes its time, but I believe the time is mission/loadout specific but not plane specific. However eg. Tupelow bombers should take longer to ready - this should be moddeled.

[USSAmerica]

Sadly, I lost my install source file download and serial number for Harpoon UE when my old external backup drive died about 3 years ago. I won it in one of the Matrix Fantasy Football leagues so it wasn't through the online store, killing that possible avenue of obtaining it again. [:(]

My new external backup drive contains 2 individual drives that are mirrored, so if I ever lose one again, the other still has everything. [;)] Two years ago I again won the Matrix Fantasy Football league and selected Command MANO as my prize. This time it was formally downloaded via the store with a voucher and it sits safely on my mirrored drive awaiting the time to be able to learn it. (Retirement) [:D]

[Alpha77]

Command must be quite challenging to learn I guess...

Compared to:



...which looks simple to the veteran player

Btw. I downloaded the demo, seems to work. But no editor of course. But I can make the F14s weaker by only using a "recon" loadout, it has lots of ecm and a recon pad, but only 2 Sparrow and 2 Sidewinder.. so might just not use the special intercept loadouts (so no LR Phoenix...)

And it seems 30min. is the ready time for every aircraft, a bit simple if one is used to WITPAE...

Damn the demo has the "updated" USNI scens - I have bad memory of them. More difficult then the originals. I remember eg. in the 2nd or 3rd mission (with mostly smaller craft but quite a bit of land based air), most of my ships were sunk as well Norwegian F16s were shot down without me even detecting the attacker(s). One must be more careful and plan in the USNI scens....

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... et-1225993

Can't upset our Chinese over-lords now, can we?

Hollywood is a whorehouse.

warspite1

Its called the real world. Why do you think the British had to have an American in many of their films? Because without the US market the funding wouldn't have been raised. Its the real world.

It happens to all at sometime. Imagine Hollywood 30 years ago. The wishes of the Chinese people and the importance attached to their views would rank (let's be polite) nowhere....

But the economics are different, the importance of China, globally is different. This feeds through to Hollywood no less than, political considerations, banking, commerce, industry and the military.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... et-1225993

Can't upset our Chinese over-lords now, can we?

Hollywood is a whorehouse.

Why can't you play nice with the other children? Time and again you've shown your disrespect for people with different opinions.

[DD696]

Yes, you (Zorch) certainly have.

[warspite1]

Shame you two don't get along....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHjaG_p2k-g

Which one of you has the darling figure? [;)]

[DD696]

That wouldn't be me. After all, I am 72 plus years old, but Zorch would never be allowed on my lawn.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: DD696

Yes, you (Zorch) certainly have.

That's the pot calling the kettle black.

[Timotheus]

Top Gun jacket controversy:
In the original Top Gun, Maverick had on his (glorious) leather jacket various symbols and patches, including one with the flags of Japan and Taiwan.

Because hollyweird is no longer making movies for Americans, but for international (read - Chinese) audience, the flags of Japan and Taiwan were removed.

Leather Jacket Controversy

The fact that movies are now made for international audience and not primarily for Americans, explains why movies are "dumbed down". Simply put, you cannot expect foreign audiences to understand any kind of a nuance, inside joke, "americana" because they are not intimately familiar with American Culture. That is why the humour in American movies is now the dumbest, crudest jokes one can think of (because those will be understood by EVERY culture, german, chinese, papuan, chinese, etc etc) with zero nuance, zero intelligence, zero complicated plots.

[Rusty1961]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... et-1225993

Can't upset our Chinese over-lords now, can we?

Hollywood is a whorehouse.

Why can't you play nice with the other children? Time and again you've shown your disrespect for people with different opinions.

Truth hurts, don't it?

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... et-1225993

Can't upset our Chinese over-lords now, can we?

Hollywood is a whorehouse.

Why can't you play nice with the other children? Time and again you've shown your disrespect for people with different opinions.

Truth hurts, don't it?

What you call 'truth' is not necessarily that. Your failure to recognize this is disturbing.

Hollywood has been dumbing down films for many years before the Chinese entered the market.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Hollywood has been dumbing down films for many years before the Chinese entered the market.

warspite1

Correct

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

The fact that movies are now made for international audience and not primarily for Americans, explains why movies are "dumbed down". Simply put, you cannot expect foreign audiences to understand any kind of a nuance, inside joke, "americana" because they are not intimately familiar with American Culture. That is why the humour in American movies is now the dumbest, crudest jokes one can think of (because those will be understood by EVERY culture, german, chinese, papuan, chinese, etc etc) with zero nuance, zero intelligence, zero complicated plots.

warspite1

Strange comment and I'm not sure you've written what you meant to say - at least I hope not. As Zorch says, 'dumbing down' has been in vogue for years - look at the majority of 'gross out' movies, which have been in existence for 40-odd years.

But just take your first sentence. So what that says is that if films were made for the American market only, there would be no dumbing down?? So films are dumbed down so every 'german' (sic) can understand? Gross out movies - and often 'the dumbest, crudest jokes one can think of' are made for a specific audience - and that audience can be found in every country, including America.

But is Hollywood always 'dumbing down' and what does that mean?

As someone who loves, and knows something of history, I have always been more aware than many (and I suspect a lot of people on this forum are in the same boat) of where films have been 'economical with the truth' or have simplified things too much. But there are a number of factors in play and it's not all to do with the broad accusation of 'dumbing down'.

There is an overriding need to make a film commercially successful. That means as big an audience as possible. That alone does not mean having to 'dumb down'. It MIGHT mean being alive to the sensitivities of countries and other cultures. Why would you necessarily be angry about that? So a couple of flags were removed? Important or just a case of being aware of others? We will all have our opinion on that - but I don't think this can be put in the 'dumbing down' bracket.

Note Hollywood appears selective of who it upsets though - and this come back to my earlier point - post 29. The need not to upset people is tempered by how important a market those 'people' are. For example films like the hideous U-571 tells us what? Totally re-writing history for what purpose? This film wasn't 'dumbed down' so it could be understood by the rest of the world was it? It certainly wasn't 'dumbed down' so your average Briton could understand it was it? It was however absurd in its portrayal of an event that happened before the US even came into the war. That is not 'dumbing down' for an overseas market, its trying to make a commercially viable film while ignoring those sailors who (very) broadly did what was portrayed, but don't need to be considered because the target market is about 80 million people (and no the 'dedication' at the end of the film to those sailors didn't cut the mustard). Is that your idea of a film made in America, for Americans?

Yes maybe there is a need to spoon feed the audience more nowadays and simplify historical events - but, if true, that says less about Hollywood and more about the state of education. But moreover - as annoying as we may find it - the main reason for over-simplification it that Hollywood is in the entertainment industry and.....

I hope I'm wrong but your post seems to say Hollywood should make films about America, for America and, if they were, then they wouldn't be 'dumbed down' - so to hell with anyone else.

[oaltinyay]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Command must be quite challenging to learn I guess...

Compared to:



...which looks simple to the veteran player

Btw. I downloaded the demo, seems to work. But no editor of course. But I can make the F14s weaker by only using a "recon" loadout, it has lots of ecm and a recon pad, but only 2 Sparrow and 2 Sidewinder.. so might just not use the special intercept loadouts (so no LR Phoenix...)

And it seems 30min. is the ready time for every aircraft, a bit simple if one is used to WITPAE...

Damn the demo has the "updated" USNI scens - I have bad memory of them. More difficult then the originals. I remember eg. in the 2nd or 3rd mission (with mostly smaller craft but quite a bit of land based air), most of my ships were sunk as well Norwegian F16s were shot down without me even detecting the attacker(s). One must be more careful and plan in the USNI scens....

where do I find this O kind sir ?

[Canoerebel]

That looks like Harpoon from the 1990s (or some variation/generation thereof).