1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

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incbob
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by incbob »

Japan Turn 1 Impulse 3
Combined.
TRS w/ 7-3 INF (Elite) from Kobe, Japan to Coral Sea box 0. (I hope the either land near Port Moresby or invade it itself.)
3x TRS from Timor Sea to Batavia.

Offered a battle in the South China Sea. Rain, my single CA vs a single disorg sub. I decline.
Land Units move to surround Port Moresby and the Yamammato HQ moves closer to the front.
NAV from Iwo Jima to the Palau Islands (closer).

Really, until a unit is ready to invade I don't think there is much the Japanese can do. The land movement to get into position to attack is killing the Japanese. They have so many naval moves to make, but they need the land moves to get into position.

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incbob
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by incbob »

Allies Turn 1 Impulse 4
USA and CW choose Naval
1x USA TRS from Honolulu to Oakland to pick up 6-4 INF.
CV Hornet from Mexican coast to San Francisco to wait on CV planes.
BB North Carolina and Washington from Mexican coast to Honolulu.
TRS w/6-4 MAR from Polynesia to Suva, Fiji Islands.

The American task force of CV Lexington, Yorktown and Enterprise were in the New Zealand Coast sea zone. They, and their escorts, move into Brisbane as they prepare for the battle to come.
BB Colorado from San Francisco to New Zealand Coast sea zone, BB New Mexico, Maryland, and Pennsylvania join her from Honolulu. (I hope to have them in place for future shore bombardment duty.)
All CW units in the Cape of Naturaliste sea zone join the Americans in Brisbane.
1 CW CP to Polynesia box 0. (I sure hope all Allied supplies can move through CW CPs and not just CW supplies.)
P-39 rebases to Townsville in effort to get into supply.
P-40 rebases from Port Moresby to Townsville in order to get into supply.
B-25 rebases from Dallas to San Diego.
HQ Nimitz reorganizes the BB North Carolina and BB Washington so they can move out. (It isn't doing anything else.)
CW TRS in Arabian Sea reorganizes 2 CPs.
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incbob
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by incbob »

At this point I can make some comments.

My entire setup, more for the Allies than for Japan, is/was a disaster. I was unsure of where to place units and because I was unsure did not place them correctly. The fact that I did not have a complete understanding of CPs also limits me now. Instead of having the supply pipeline from the USA West Coast to the south Pacific around Australia set up I am instead having to maneuver around CPs to make it work.

This maneuvering of units is not just limited to CPs either, but mostly. At this point I find myself trying to maneuver units into attack position. The 3 American CVs about to enter the Coral Sea are an example. it has taken 2 impulses just to get them into the place where they can attack. I wonder is this normal? Are delays like this common? Especially for the Japanese I feel I should be doing more, moving quicker.

Also, one thing that I had not thought of before I started Guadalcanal is the advantage the board game gives the player. Playing Barbarossa I could understand that the Germans or Soviets would have some idea of the forces that they faced. In the Pacific this was different. Both sides had vague ideas where the other side was, but often even these vague ideas were wildly wrong. Take for instance the situation of the Japanese in the game I am playing. They know exactly where the US and CW forces are.

Now that said, there are a couple of things that make up for this knowledge we should not have.
1-Naval Searches. Yeah, you might now where they are, but bringing to battle is something completely different.
2-Activity Limits.
This is a huge one. As the Japanese player I know where the Americans are. I have a large Task Force in the Solomon Sea zone, but if I move it than I am not moving other Naval units or I am not moving my land units to attack Port Moresby.

cfinch
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by cfinch »

i agree with "you may not bring them to battle" this to me is the i know where they are...or do i

one thing to consider, if you have the chit and depending on timing, is super combined - more or less the most powerful play in pacific. more or less unlimited everything
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Courtenay
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by Courtenay »

ORIGINAL: incbob
Also, I found out why I wasn't offered a combat in the Timor Sea. The USA's 4x CAs are all disorganized. So I understand why they weren't offered combat. Now, to figure out why they were disorganized.
Sounds to me like you moved them when they were out of supply. Were they based in Darwin, or maybe Moresby with no CP in the Coral Sea?

Brisbane is a nice base for the Americans because, no matter what, it can't be put out of supply.

Just don't mix CW and US naval units in the same port. It knocks a point off your speed.

Early 1942 is interesting, because the two sides have approximate naval parity. If one side makes a major commitment to one sea zone, the other can attack in other sea zones.
I thought I knew how to play this game....
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incbob
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by incbob »

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

Sounds to me like you moved them when they were out of supply. Were they based in Darwin, or maybe Moresby with no CP in the Coral Sea?

Brisbane is a nice base for the Americans because, no matter what, it can't be put out of supply.

Just don't mix CW and US naval units in the same port. It knocks a point off your speed.

Early 1942 is interesting, because the two sides have approximate naval parity. If one side makes a major commitment to one sea zone, the other can attack in other sea zones.

Yes, they were in Darwin and I had not setup my units correctly so they were I guess out of supply. Then the Japanese moved into the Coral Sea and it did not matter.

Did not know about the CW and US units in same port. To late since I already did it, but I learn.

Until the USA gets an overwhelming naval superiority I would say that the strategy of "hit them where they ain't" is a possible strategy. But I am free to admit I do not know how good of a strategy it is.
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incbob
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by incbob »

Well. I hate to do it, but it is time to call this AAR done.
I intended to take this to completion, but really cannot. I am going to start over and maybe my 3rd game I can do.
There is just to much I did not know. I did worry that starting an AAR on my first Guadalcanal game was biting of more than I could chew, but I thought I had a handle on Naval and was good with Barbarossa.

Things I learned.

1- Know your units. Smaller/Lessor units might be better than that one bigger/better one.
During setup I chose some class 5 CV air units since they were the better air unit. The problem is this left me with a unit I could not use and and since I did not choose the lessor air units with the smaller class I was left with CVs with no planes.

2- Know your supply routes.
I did not realize all the sea zones that I needed CPs in and did not know how many CPs I needed in each sea zone. This is a deficiency because I do not know production that well.

3- Supply is harder to come by in the Pacifc.
At least in Barbarossa supply seemed easy to figure out and once a unit got OOS it was rather easy to get it back into supply. With tthe Pacific once you loose control of a sea zone all units out of supply on an Island can be out of supply so you have to be careful.

4- Multiple Impulses
For Japan and the Allies in the Pacific you just cannot do all you need in a single Impulse. Even a Combined choice doesn't give you enough actions to do it what you need. You end up having to prioritize your actions and go over multiple Impulses. I felt this a lot more in the Pacific than I did in Barbarossa.

5- Your gonna fight.
Early game US/Japan is interesgting in that in the early game neither the US nor the Japanease want to loose units. The US because they have so few and the Japanese because what they loose is difficult to replace. Yet, for the Japanese you have to put your units in harms way to prevent take avenues of attack away from the US. As for the Allies if you want to stop the Japanese you have to place your units in harms way. The result is that you are going to fight a battle like Midway win or lose.

6- Not enough Units.
I mean I understand you never have what you want, but I was shocked by the lack of something simple like CPs. I figure you need at least 2-3 CPs per sea zone to keep supply lines open in case of subs. But the US barely has enough to go from the US to the south Pacific.

The same goes for air units and land units. The Guadalcanal scenario was is set in May/June 42, yet as the Japanese I could not put units in the Philippines or other places you might suspect there would be units.

7- Concentration or Spread Out.
This is a question that I did not get answered and probably never will. Do you hit them where they aren't? Do you have one really big force or do you divide your forces and try more than one operation at at time.

An example is of this is the Allied side in this AAR. Do you combine the CW and US carriers into one large group to resist the Japanese or do you le the US resist while using the CW carriers to strike elsewhere? As the Japanese if you combine your units you have a force that will be daunting for the US and CW combined. However, if you do this you leave yourself open to being attacked where you aren't. On the other hand if you split your forces you risk being defeated in detail.

brian brian
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by brian brian »

Note on carrying supply through a sea zone - a TRS or AMPH in the zone also does the job. These can sail into a high box with strong escorts; can be a good tactic ‘on the front lines’ at times.

It is worth remembering that the Guadalcanal scenario is not a simulation of the entire Pacific War. The other side gets Victory Points for sinking a CV, sure, but this one isn’t about the long haul.

The Japanese are on interior lines and need to use that to their advantage. If the Allies, on exterior lines, over-concentrate on a flank, they are one turn away from aiding the other flank.
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Courtenay
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by Courtenay »

ORIGINAL: incbob

Well. I hate to do it, but it is time to call this AAR done.
I intended to take this to completion, but really cannot. I am going to start over and maybe my 3rd game I can do.
There is just to much I did not know. I did worry that starting an AAR on my first Guadalcanal game was biting of more than I could chew, but I thought I had a handle on Naval and was good with Barbarossa.

Things I learned.

1- Know your units. Smaller/Lessor units might be better than that one bigger/better one.
During setup I chose some class 5 CV air units since they were the better air unit. The problem is this left me with a unit I could not use and and since I did not choose the lessor air units with the smaller class I was left with CVs with no planes.
Yes, the US's size 5 CVPs are for the Essexes. which don't exist yet at the start of the Guadalcanal campaign. In Global war, the CW's CVP pool is agonizing. They start the game with empty carriers, and it is hard to fill them. If the Japanese build all their CVL's, they will find it almost impossible to provide them all with planes.
2- Know your supply routes.
I did not realize all the sea zones that I needed CPs in and did not know how many CPs I needed in each sea zone. This is a deficiency because I do not know production that well.
The Guadalcanal scenario has special rules, which I do not know. You have to read the scenario booklet to get the Guadalcanal rules to figure out where CPs are required for victory points.
3- Supply is harder to come by in the Pacifc.
At least in Barbarossa supply seemed easy to figure out and once a unit got OOS it was rather easy to get it back into supply. With tthe Pacific once you loose control of a sea zone all units out of supply on an Island can be out of supply so you have to be careful.

4- Multiple Impulses
For Japan and the Allies in the Pacific you just cannot do all you need in a single Impulse. Even a Combined choice doesn't give you enough actions to do it what you need. You end up having to prioritize your actions and go over multiple Impulses. I felt this a lot more in the Pacific than I did in Barbarossa.

5- Your gonna fight.
Early game US/Japan is interesgting in that in the early game neither the US nor the Japanease want to loose units. The US /because they have so few and the Japanese because what they loose is difficult to replace. Yet, for the Japanese you have to put your units in harms way to prevent take avenues of attack away from the US. As for the Allies if you want to stop the Japanese you have to place your units in harms way. The result is that you are going to fight a battle like Midway win or lose.

6- Not enough Units.
I mean I understand you never have what you want, but I was shocked by the lack of something simple like CPs. I figure you need at least 2-3 CPs per sea zone to keep supply lines open in case of subs. But the US barely has enough to go from the US to the south Pacific.
The number of CPs to have in a sea zone you are just using for supply, not production, is one (1). Having one or two extra will not help, because if an opposing submarine force finds you, you will likely lose multiple CPs. Don't give the enemy multiple CPs to kill. Instead, try to have multiple routes your supply can go through. The Coral Sea is an unfortunate choke point; it is hard to get around it. The enemy will knock out a CP here or there; just be prepared to replace them as quickly as possible.
The same goes for air units and land units. The Guadalcanal scenario was is set in May/June 42, yet as the Japanese I could not put units in the Philippines or other places you might suspect there would be units.

7- Concentration or Spread Out.
This is a question that I did not get answered and probably never will. Do you hit them where they aren't? Do you have one really big force or do you divide your forces and try more than one operation at at time.

An example is of this is the Allied side in this AAR. Do you combine the CW and US carriers into one large group to resist the Japanese or do you le the US resist while using the CW carriers to strike elsewhere? As the Japanese if you combine your units you have a force that will be daunting for the US and CW combined. However, if you do this you leave yourself open to being attacked where you aren't. On the other hand if you split your forces you risk being defeated in detail.
It is very hard to make a naval offensive when there is parity of forces. Land based air is key. You can operate if you have it; advancing to where you don't is very problematic. (Except for submarines, who more or less have to.)
I thought I knew how to play this game....
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incbob
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RE: 1st Time Guadalcanal scenario

Post by incbob »

Thank you for all these notes.

I, the "read the damn instructions before you play" guy didn't bother to ready the Guadalcanal scenario until way later. I figured it was here is 5 turns during the war kind of thing to introduce me to naval stuff. It did that, but wasn't prepared for the game part of it.

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