Confusion on Skill Rolls

[andyinkuwait]

More news. I got rid of the governor completely and, of course, take a -50% hit

I still have the 25% bonus as metals go from a production base of 40 to an actual production of 25 (0.5 x 1.25 x 40)

Fuel goes from a base of 15 to an actual production of 9 (0.5 x 1.25 x 15)

So where is the 25% coming from?

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: andyinkuwait

More news. I got rid of the governor completely and, of course, take a -50% hit

I still have the 25% bonus as metals go from a production base of 40 to an actual production of 25 (0.5 x 1.25 x 40)

Fuel goes from a base of 15 to an actual production of 9 (0.5 x 1.25 x 15)

So where is the 25% coming from?

With all the things we excluded? Not a lot of ideas left.
Maybe extraction optimisation tech? Grasping at straws here.

Without a savegame or even images, we are trying to debug blind, without a solid base of information.

[andyinkuwait]

How can I post a save game?

EDIT figured out how to post a jpg but not a save file

[andyinkuwait]

Can't figure out how to post a save game so here is the asset

[andyinkuwait]

Here's the Governor

[andyinkuwait]

Same asset with no Governor

[andyinkuwait]

Here's the feats and bonuses

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: andyinkuwait

Can't figure out how to post a save game so here is the asset

These values indeed make no sense. But I also got nothing like those values in any game.

The one time I had a unexplained bonus, it turned out to have been the Private Economy one.
But here the bonus seems to only affect the Public part of production.
But nothing should be affecting the Public Part of production but the Governor. At least not anymore: It used to be that Public Economy Bonus affected all resource yields, but nowadays it is limited down to Industry, Heavy Industry and High Tech Industry assets only - an called Public Industry Bonus.

More wild guesses:
- Is there any chance this save game is from a really old game version? Maybe someone elses Planet generation save? Are you playing online and there is a chance people are using different game versions?
Unfortunately a few poor design choices by Vic means that a lot of data is actually carried in the savegame. Meaning that older version savegames (planet creation included) can carry some really old bugs and rules. And there is also no protection against people using different versions in a MP game in older versions either.
- Or are you running a old version fo the game? Current live version is 1.08.01.

You can find both figures under Reports -> Empire Dashboard -> Tooltip for Version.
I attached a screenshot of a game where the savegame was created in 1.08.01, but wich is being played in the 1.08.02 beta.

Unless one of my guesses hit the mark, all I can think off is making a bug report. Vic should respond with his Email, so you can send him the savegames and he can take a look at it.

[andyinkuwait]

No, both are 1.08. I put the beta in yesterday in case something changed. Not playing online and not using someone else's data.

[andyinkuwait]

Well, here's the save game for anyone to take a look in case I missed anything

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q2jojCQp75vpKpDRmmV6wK2hJkKYe4Hv/view?usp=sharing

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: andyinkuwait

Well, here's the save game for anyone to take a look in case I missed anything

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q2jojCQp75vpKpDRmmV6wK2hJkKYe4Hv/view?usp=sharing

Not so relevant things I noticed:
- this is a TL3, Militia only start. As far as starts go, it is one of the hardest. I started starting on TL4, at least 1 Army/Zone. Among other things, you start with the scavenging nationalized and some decent tech.
- this is a Turn 1 savegame. But the issues do persist into turn 2. Still the Turn 1 math can be off in a number of areas, even with no actuall bugs.

Relevant things I noticed:
- the issue is exclusive to the scavenging asset. It does not affect the Dome Farm in any way.
- now that I looked at my Public Scavenging, I noticed a similar unexplained bonus as well - but only on them!
So it is not unique to private assets, but unique to scavenging assets.

My Public Recyclers should give me 30F/40M/15R at +8% Relationship bonus
I have 2 and both give me 40F/54M/19R for a 33.33%/35%/26.67% bonus
I feel embarassed I did not consider that option before.

[andyinkuwait]

Just to finish this thread.

The 25% bonus comes from an adjacent ruin which enhances scavenge attempts by 25% (rich scavenging area rule in the manual)

The governor has a high improvisation skill which provides a bonus for skill rolls under 15 (his scavenge is 6) allowing him to get a 10% bonus even though his maximum roll is 106.

Thanks all for your efforts

[BlueTemplar]

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
That asset has a -45% from Logistics issues.

If you want to figure out any math, the last thing you want is additional modifiers. Because then you have to ask in wich order they are applied and if multiplicative/compounding or additive.

Generally, I would agree with that, but in this case it's not an issue because we already have the detailed math !
And it's pretty clear that it's multiplicative, what would be the chances of getting exactly the same result with a different calculation ? (And on two separate instances, including the previous one that I haven't detailed, and which had Administrative Strain instead of a Logistic malus.)

Furthermore, you can see that the logistic malus is multiplicative as well :
120*(1-0.45)*1.74 = 114.84

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
And it could be that 12% bonus is part of the overall Skill Roll Bonus. 55% Bonus, 12% from the Relation Modifier to the Skill Roll.

This seems unlikely, considering that, again, 1.12*1.55 = 1.736 which is almost exactly the 74% that I see.

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
[Quoting manual.]

Thanks, but you missed the most relevant ones :

4.4.5. leader bonuses and skIlls
[...]
For Governors, the Relation Score impacts Public Resource production levels
with up to +25% or -25% (but not other items like BP or Private Items).

(Though now I'm suspecting that the manual is obsolete and this has been changed to [-30%;+30%].)

5.3.7. Governor
[...]
Absence of a Governor
Not having a Governor will cause some administrative chaos and
consequently a -50% penalty on production of Public Assets. However, it
will not impact the Private Economy.

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Same Metal Mine with a new Goernor:
"Governor modifies Resource Production by +3% (Relations Modifier +3%)"

Relations with new leader was 56%
Skill Roll for mining was 83 (under 100, so no bonus).

Another City, Private Dome farm:
+17% Bonus, Relationship Bonus +17%
Relations: 80
Agriculture Roll of 41 (below 100, no bonus).

So there is no question:
Relationship bonus is part of the overall bonus, not a seperate figure.
And only skill rolls past 100 mater for Skill bonuses.

I guess that we agree then ?
(But how are the bonuses from skill rolls over 100 calculated ?)

----

I *knew* there was something about a scavenging bonus in the back of my mind, but Vic got there first :
fb.asp?m=4974000

ORIGINAL: Vic

Bonus comes from the adjacent other Ruins south of your Asset.
The more ruins around the more productive the scavenging. see 5.5.2.4 in the manual 'rich scav rules'

5.5.2.4. sCavenGInG rules
You can find scavengeable Items in Ruins Hexes. Build an appropriate Asset
in such a Hex and you can extract Items as long as Scavenge Points remain
in the Hex.
Rich Scavenging Area Rule
You’ll get +25% extra Scavenge Items for each scavengeable Hex directly
around the Assets Hex and +10% for such Hexes at range 2.

But this means that there might be a bug in my game.
My example above was with :
- 1 almost but not quite depleted scavenging hex in range 1 :
"0k" scavenge points, "Reduced availability of scavengeable items in hex gives modifier of -93%". Now maybe this one counts for 0% or 7% of +25% extra scavenging, so might not be "noticeable" in the math. But what about the
- 1 scavenging hex in the city with a Scavenging Community on it ?
This one *should* give a range 2 +10% bonus !
(And it should *also* receive at least a range 2 +10% bonus, but I can't check, because my Capital is set to Unincorporated, so isn't producing any Private Items as Private Asset Due.)

[BlueTemplar]

With v1.08.03, only the middle, almost depleted, scavenging area gets a +50% rich scavenging area modifier (the next turn, for the log to be generated).