Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A)

[OnWargaming]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

And what about when new units will arrive as reinforcement? The full price as well?

Yes, they come as shells and all the devices are created from the stockpile of manpower, armaments and vehicles.

Thanks and welcome!

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

Vehicles and Armaments: ok, therefore I can think to increase the production later in the game (1943?) and no need to keep a large stockpile from the beginning.

That is a mistake. Expanding production for later in the game, when the Home Islands are likely to be exposed to Allied strategic bombing, is an invitation to waste supply.

Not to mention you will be looking to expand industry at a point where supply pressure is starting to become acute for Japan, as well as the time delay between expansion and factories repairing.

Bank ARM and VEH points while Japan is in the ascendancy.

Long term planning: right, this is my main concern for luck of experience, I just have a vague idea where to spend my limited resources.
My olistic approach will be small increments checking my overall losses and resources stockpile.

In my view, with a PDU ON game, it pays to adopt a Soviet-style approach where airframes (particularly late-war models) are concerned. A "just-in-time" approach to airframe production will be attractive in the early stages of the war when combat is quite restricted in scale, but the wheels will come off in short order once combat ramps up into 1943.

Pick a handful of models that fill key roles and streamline production around those aircraft. There are plenty of suggested approaches on the forum for how to go about this.

This approach gives you the advantage of leveraging the IJ's greatest asset (variable airframe production) - provided of course that you have the pilot training programme to match it.

Shipyard: my idea here was to keep them constantly close to the limits accelerating the most needed ships (of course several ones will be halted) and eventually to build what is possible until the Allied lockdown.
I am not sure building a stockpile here, of course I can be wrong

Worth referring to the manual on how the shipyards work.

[mind_messing]

Pros
With Malaya, Burma and DEI in Japanese hands I think to have enough supply and fuel to keep the offensive without using HI resources.

That is unlikely to be the case. Troops in combat operations, plus air operations, plus expansion to port and airbases needed to sustain the advance will see substantial supply usage.

You may be lucky and capture a significant stockpile at Calcutta or Madras, but the likelihood of being able to sustain the offensive on captured stockpiles is slim.

Another plus is the short travel time to feed my troops.

This is not the case.

With the Home Islands to Singapore route taking approx. two weeks, you can add a extra week on for the Singapore to Calcutta route.

All in all, that will mean you are looking at a month (and likely more) of travel time for a convoy bringing troops or supplies to India. Staging from Singapore and effective convoy organisation will help with this, but only to a limited degree - geography is geography.

[OnWargaming]

@mind_messing thanks for your comments!

Vehicles and Armaments: got the point.

Airframes: I still have to decide what to build, this is my last thing to do before to start the turn one.

Shipyards: sorry I meant the Naval and Merchant ones.

India: therefore my initial assumptions about the supply needs are wrong.
I will check how much supply are needed for a large army with the Malaya invasion and Tracker.

[OnWargaming]

[center]Theatre of Operation Part Three[/center]

Malaya
Well, no doubt that Singapore is the most important city to take and I need lot of units for this task.
I added another HR for myself, no invasion fleet if not under fighters cover (no drop tanks) or CV/CVL escort, therefore no Mersing gambit in day one, two, and so on, only when it can be covered.
I will land at Patani and Kota Bharu, then Kuantan.

25th Army
Five divisions and three tank regiments, lot of guys for the final assault.
I will try to cut the general retreat towards Singapore but I aspect that several Allied units will be able to escape.

16th Army
2nd Division will help on this invasion, Mersing is the target.
Still not sure what to do with the 38th Division after Hong Kong will fall, Philippines are my first choice at the moment.

3rd Air Division
Medium range bombers and the rest of the fighters will support the advance.


DEI
I want Palembang, badly, I hope to have the necessary air cover in time to take it at the end of the year.
To support the plan I will take Singkawang first.
Next targets Batavia and Soerabaja, Koepang the last one.

Southern Army
4th Division for Palembang with my faster transport ships, maybe can be overkill but if my opponent wants to stand and fight here I prefer to have a good unit for the job.
21th Division for Soerabaja, my plan is to release this unit from garrison duty in short time.
124th Regiment will take Miri and Singkawang.
21st Ind. Mixed Brigade will take Koepang (when released).

Borneo
Miri as first target, all the other bases will follow step by step.
Tarakan and Balikpapan will be hit after Miri and Davao will be in Japanese hands and air cover will be available.

22nd Air Flotilla
Few Zero but lot of naval bombers, the small detachments will help on naval search.
Initially based on Borneo bases. I don't want to use the bombers for ground attacks.



SNLF Units
Very useful units for all the light defended bases, they will see lot of action.
Manado, Tarakan, Balikpapan and Kendari are their main targets.

Southern Fleet
All the initial naval force wil stay in the theatre:
2x BB
7x CA
2x CL
2x CVL will join the operations as soon as possible.
Of course this could be change according to my opponent's strategy.

Edit: a mistake in the picture, sorry. Singapore is a priority target but obviously not a first one!

[OnWargaming]

[center]Theatre of Operation Part Four[/center]

Philippines
Not a priority except the 3+ level airfields (the main target is USAAF) and Manila.
I will land few units at the beginning because I just want to keep my sea lanes safe until more reinforcements will arrive.
I thought to bypass Luzon but then the Allied could bring more supply and build several fortifications before my invasion, my fear is that the time spent to take the bases could be a lot more.

14th Army
Two divisions, one brigade and two tank regiments for taking Clark Field and Manila.
A pincer maneuver from Vigan and Legaspi.

16th Army
146th Regiment will attack Davao.

5th Air Division
Not the strongest air force but after some upgrade should be able to support the advance till a potential Darwin air offensive.

21st Air Flotilla
Very few Zero but several naval bombers, this time I will use them on ground targets.

23rd Air Flotilla
Lot of Zero and a good amount of naval bombers.
Both HQ will work togheter to destroy the enemy aircrafts on Clark Field.

SNLF Units
The small paratrooper units will land at Legaspi and Vigan, they can be very useful later for the small bases spread out across the Pacific.

Combined Fleet
Initial naval force:
2x CA
4x CL
I could be rather light for naval combat, thinking to move 2-3 more CL from the Home Islands, especially Kitakami with her wonderful amount of torpedoes.

[OnWargaming]

[center]Theatre of Operation Part Five[/center]

South Pacific
Guam invasion TF will be diverted to Rabaul and a Naval Guard unit will take Guam instead.
TF starting in the Marshall Islands will join together for a concentrated attack at Wake.
Then Kavieng, Lae, Shortlands, Tulagi, Tarawa.

After that I am thinking to take Port Moresby and Baker Island, followed by Midway, Johnston, Canton and Palmyra islands.
The idea here is to force a CV engagement and deny to him valuable patrol bases.

Phase Two Expansion on the Pacific
Pros
Less costly in supply than the India offensive, less land troops involved
Allied force cannot contest the KB at the beginning and I should be able to land almost everywhere unopposed
Japanese aircrafts have a pretty good long range (fighters, bombers, patrols, transports)
Maybe is the only theatre where I can force an early CV clash (my plan is not to split the KB)
Hawaii and South Australia are the only places heavily defended

Cons
Extended supply lines
More costly in fuel than the India offensive, everything need a ship to be moved
A very big area to cover, enemy TF can sail undetected
Understanding the correct defensive line, if a base is too fortified can be bypassed, if too low can be taken at the first try
Few asset available until SRA is secured or bought out


Again I will see how my opponent strategy unfold before to take a final decision.

Southeast Area Fleet
Few Naval Guard and SNLF units, they will fight alone for a while.

Initial naval force:
KB
4 CA
3 CL
Lot of SS
If concentrated should be enough until more asset will arrive.

24th Air Flotilla
Lot of FP and Patrol aircrafts but few outdated fighters, reinforcements are needed.


North Pacific
Given my self imposed HR (no invasion fleet if not under fighters cover or CV/CVL escort) I have to wait a bit before launching an offensive here, anyhow Adak will be the main target.

[OnWargaming]

Moving stuff!

Oil&Fuel
Only tankers for moving oil and fuel therefore I need to use them wisely and safety:

TK Type-NTL: DEI
TK Thonan Whaler: DEI
I want to move oil into HI to keep my refineries busy, old DD in escort.

TK Manzyu TM: DEI
AO Shiretoko: Malaya
Fuel to Japan

AO Type-1 TL: replenishment
TK Typ-1 TS: short haul

Resources&Supply
xAK Aden and xAK Gozan will haul resources from Korea, China and Hokkaido to HI (160), when few selected ports will be expanded less ships will be necessary.


AK Yusen S: DEI/Malaya
xAK Kyushu: DEI/Malaya, some of them will be converted in AV
xAK Yusen A: conversion in AK, invasions
xAK Yusen N: invasions, supply
xAK Lima: some in AKE, supply
xAK Husimi: some in AS, AV and AR, supply
xAK Akasi: some in AD, second line
xAK Toho: some in AKE, rear bases
xAK Ehime: rear bases
xAK Std-C: TK
xAK Ansyu-C: PB
xAKL Kasu-D: small or rear bases
xAKL Kiso-E: PB
xAKL Miyati: some in AGP/AG
xAKL To'su: ACM, AMc or CMc


Shipyards

Merchant
TK: every ship will be built until 43, the big 44 one will be accelerated, in general if I have a surplus of Merchant points I want to spend them on accelerating some TK (with few exceptions).
AO: all, trying to accelerate the 44 ones
CVE: all till 43
CS Nisshin
xAP: all
xAK: only Std-A and B for a while (for TK conversion)
Losses could be change that but at the moment no more xAK/xAKL
Aux: all
LSD: both, trying to to accelerate the 2nd one


Naval
Everything with a deck is a priority, all CV (no 45 ones) and trying to accelerate Taiho and Shinano
CVL: Shoho and Ryuho
BB: the two big sister will be halted, too expensive, difficult to rearm, I am not sure they are worth the investiment
CL: all
DD: accelerating if possible
APD: none
SS
I-XX: all but I-52/53/55
RO-100/117: no
RO-35/56: yes (speed 20 knots, maneuver 72)
Ha-xx and Yu-xx: no
Patrol: all

Conversions
Following the same approach, I want to convert almost everything with a decent aircrafts capacity.
BB are expensive to move and rearm and I don't think they will see a lot of naval engagements except the early period, great for naval bombardment though. Anyhow I want more CV than BB.
Fuso and Ise class will convert in FP platform (22 A/C), pretty good inside a CV TF and lot of AA armament, 2 at least, all 4 if my losses on BB are not heavy.
CA Mogami too, excellent inside the KB TF
CS Chitose class, both in CVL (I need to expand Tokyo SY to 50)



Political Points
First priority are leaders on important ships, from CV down to CL.
CV air groups
Ground big units in offensive operations
Buy out high Exp troops from Korea/Manchukuo


At the moment I am thinking about my aircrafts production...I need a break!

[OnWargaming]

Double post!

[mind_messing]

I want Palembang, badly, I hope to have the necessary air cover in time to take it at the end of the year.

Be sure to understand the implications of this in a game with no strategic bombing HR.

As the Allies, in such a game, you can be sure that the first move following the capture of Palembang would be to mobilize every bomber within range to bomb the oil from under Japan's nose.

While a capture of Palembang before Jan '42 will put the Allies on the back foot in this regard, that cuts both ways as it's unlikely Japan will have substantial assets to commit to the defence...

Plan wisely!

[RangerJoe]

CVEs in a TF can help to protect the base while not suffering any penalties for being in a base hex.

[RangerJoe]

You can also dump one small tanker load of Oil at Fusan with the stockpile set to "On" and then start loading two but halting the loading of one of them. Then set the loading one as a CS convoy to get the Oil moving, once one leaves then you can start loading the other one and putting that into a CS convoy. Later on, you might be able to use larger tankers as well.

If you expand the LI at Fusan, it will also draw more resources there as well.

[OnWargaming]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Be sure to understand the implications of this in a game with no strategic bombing HR.

As the Allies, in such a game, you can be sure that the first move following the capture of Palembang would be to mobilize every bomber within range to bomb the oil from under Japan's nose.

While a capture of Palembang before Jan '42 will put the Allies on the back foot in this regard, that cuts both ways as it's unlikely Japan will have substantial assets to commit to the defence...

Plan wisely!

To be honest I was thinking to use a whole Sentai (with Nate until upgrade) and all AA units on Samah, but your comment make me think could be not enough...

[OnWargaming]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You can also dump one small tanker load of Oil at Fusan with the stockpile set to "On" and then start loading two but halting the loading of one of them. Then set the loading one as a CS convoy to get the Oil moving, once one leaves then you can start loading the other one and putting that into a CS convoy. Later on, you might be able to use larger tankers as well.

If you expand the LI at Fusan, it will also draw more resources there as well.

Uhm...again I thought that just setting several ships with home port Fusan and stockpiling resources would have been enough.

[OnWargaming]

Producing stuff!

I have to say that compililing this list has been a very time consuming task!

Disclaimer: my objective is not looking for a quick victory (and I don't think to be good at it anyway) but for the long journey, I know that most players research the most important aircrafts with 10+ 30x factories but I don't want to speed up so much in my game, I am happy with just few months ahead.
Some R&D factories have been placed for production and not for pure reasearch.
Finally not all my aircrafts will be updated with the last available model, I will keep at least a single air group with almost all of the outdated planes (fighters even more).

ARMY

Early Fighter: Oscar Ki-43-Ic (100/month)
Early-Mid-Late Fighter: Oscar Ki-43-IIa/Ki-43-IV (2x30)
Mid-Late Fighter: Tony Ki-61-Ia (3x30)
Late Fighter: Frank Ki-84a (4x30, 1x60)
Late long Range Fighter: Steve Ki-83 (4x30)
Late high altitude: Randy Ki-102a (2x30)

Early-Mid Fighter Bomber: Nick Ki-45 KAIa (2x30)
Late Fighter Bomber: Randy Ki-102b (2x30)

Mid Interceptor: Tojo Ki-44-IIa (2x30)
Mid-Late Interceptor: Tony Ki-61-II KAI/Ki-100-II

Mid Night Fighter: Nick Ki-45 KAId (2x30)
Late Night Fighter: Randy Ki-102c (2x30)

Early Bomber/ASW: Sally Ki-21-IIa (40/month)
Early-Mid Bomber: Helen Ki-49-Ia (1x30)
Late Bomber: Peggy Ki-67-Ia (2x30)

Kami: Ki-119 (2x30)

Early Recon: Dinah Ki-46-II (15/Month)
Mid- Late Recon: Dinah Ki-46-III (0x30)
Late Recon: Ki-95 (1x30)

Early Transport: Topsy Ki-57-I (10/Month)
Mid-Late Transport: Helen Ki-49-II KAI (1x30)


NAVY

Early Fighter/CV: Zero A6M2 (100/Month)
Mid Fighter/CV: Zero A6M5/A6M5c (stop)
Mid-Late Fighter: George N1K1-J (4x30)
Late Fighter/CV: Sam A7M2 (8x30)

Mid-Late Interceptor: Jack J2M2 (4x30)

Mid Night Fighter: Irving J1N1-S (2x30)
Late Night Fighter: Frances P1Y2-S (1x30)

Float Plane FIghter: Rufe A6M2-N (4x30) shortcut for A6M5

Early Bomber: Betty G4M1 (40/Month)
Mid-Late Bomber: Frances P1Y1 (2x30)
Long Range Bomber/Search: Nell G3M2 (30/Month)

Early Dive Bomber: Val D3A1 (30/Month)
Mid-Late Dive Bombar: Judy D4Y1 (3x30)
Late Long Range Dive Bomber: Grace B7A2 (1x30)

Early Torpedo Bomber/ASW: Kate B5N2 (30/Month)
Mid-Late Torpedo Bomber: Jill B6N1 (3x30)
SS Torpedo Bomber: Seiran M6A1 (1x5) [:D]

Late ASW: Lorna Q1W1 (1x30)

Early Patrol: Mavis H6K4 (15/Month)
Early-Mid-Late Patrol: Emily H8K1/Emily H8K2 (1x30)

Early Recon: Babs C5M2 (15/Month)
Mid Recon: Irving J1N1-C (1x30)
Late Recon: Myrt C6N1 (1x30)

Float Plane/ASW: Jake E13A1 (50/Month)
Late FLoat Plane: Jake E13A1b (1x30)
SS Float Plane: Glen E14Y1 (9/Month)

Early Transport: Tina L3Y2 (10/Month)
Early Transport: Mavis H6K2-L (1x10)
Mid-Late Transport: Emily H8K2-L (1x30)


Engines
I still don't know but thanks to Tracker I can figure them out pretty quickly.


Vehicles
I want to double the production

Armaments
No modifications

Naval/Merchant Yards
No modifications

Repair Yards
+40 Tokyo


Well, lot of supply spent for sure, of course I will check closely my HI production but I should be able to run all this stuff (please correct me if I am wrong!)

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You can also dump one small tanker load of Oil at Fusan with the stockpile set to "On" and then start loading two but halting the loading of one of them. Then set the loading one as a CS convoy to get the Oil moving, once one leaves then you can start loading the other one and putting that into a CS convoy. Later on, you might be able to use larger tankers as well.

If you expand the LI at Fusan, it will also draw more resources there as well.

Uhm...again I thought that just setting several ships with home port Fusan and stockpiling resources would have been enough.

Yes, stockpile the resources at Fusan and move it with small freighters 2 hexes to Japan. But if you increase the amount of LI, you will increase the natural demand for resources there so you can remove more from there to send to Japan. It is cheaper in oil to do that than from Port Arthur or Shanghai, it is safer, and those small xAKLs will load and unload fast.

By "priming the pump" with oil, that is unloading oil at Fusan and then using CS convoys to move it to Japan, the game will move more oil to Fusan for the CS convoys instead of you have to ship it from farther away which will cost more in fuel and will also take longer.

[OnWargaming]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

By "priming the pump" with oil, that is unloading oil at Fusan and then using CS convoys to move it to Japan, the game will move more oil to Fusan for the CS convoys instead of you have to ship it from farther away which will cost more in fuel and will also take longer.

Do you move oil from Korea?

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

By "priming the pump" with oil, that is unloading oil at Fusan and then using CS convoys to move it to Japan, the game will move more oil to Fusan for the CS convoys instead of you have to ship it from farther away which will cost more in fuel and will also take longer.

Do you move oil from Korea?

Yes.

[OnWargaming]

Uhm...you are an expert player and obviously know that Manchukuo refineries need oil too and the Korea one is the most direct resource.
Therefore what am I missing? [&:]

[RangerJoe]

Count up how much oil that you have on the mainland and how much that you need. Now do the same for the Home Islands. Do not forget to add in any captured oil in China even if it is quite a ways away from the refineries. If the refineries need the oil, then the oil will move instead of filling up the storage and quit producing oil.

You can also load oil from inland ports in China and stockpile it at Shanghai for movement to the Home Islands.