Supplying Outlying Bases

[Mr.Frag]

There are many other factors affecting the outcome of a land battle. Supplies, armor, number of guns, fortification, combat stance, disruption level, fatigue level, command infrastructure bonuses, unit cohesiveness, etc.

Yes, all of which apply EQUALLY to both sides so they are not determining factors unless playing against a newbie.

Supplies: Eliminated by bombardment/air attack. Brought by transports for attackers. I have NEVER launched an attack that wasn't over long before supplies ran out.

Armor: None in the game during the time period PM will fall. Non-Factor

Guns: Both sides have access to these assets, Japan generally has more being that THEY are attacking and have to bring 2:1 worth of ODDS. Northern Command CD units can not be relocated to PM.

Fortification: Quickly eliminated by (a) enough troops to supply 2:1 odds and (b) combat engineers. Since PM is generally only going to be a 4, it vanishes almost instantly.

Combat stance: Attacker only posture. (there is no Shock Defend option)

Disruption/Fatigue: Quickly dealt with by ground attack and equalizing quickly after a round or two of ground combat. Proper odds results in low disruption rates on attacker side. Misuse of Shock attack seems to be the culprit here.

HQ Bonus: applies equally to both sides.

[mogami]

Hi, Port Moresby is not an auto victory base. You can take it back.
Townsville you can't (because the game will end before you get the units to take it back with. The Allies will greatly outnumber the Japanese but not before 1 Jan 43. If the Japanese capture Brisbane/Rockhampton or Townsville they also capture 50k supply and fuel (auto victory hexes need to have twice the required supply present to trigger the auto victory. Luganville and Efate suffer from not having supply move there automaticly. So the Japanese will need to transport it. Townsville is out of range of medium bombers. (So the Japanese only need to keep Rockhampton closed. )
You'll miss every extra Brigade/RCT that dies defending Port Moresby. Of course every thing changes if you can sink the IJN CV early and have one or two your self. But unless you defeat the IJN moving troops you can't spare to a base you can't supply is foolish.


(Go read "Arto/Mogami" AAR. He captured PM on May 23 (and I had reinforced it. I was able to evac the troops from Lea Lea but he still captured Townsville on 11 July)

[Snigbert]

Alright, let's say you leave Townsville and parts of Australia undefended so you can reinforce Port Moresby. All you have there is one regiment of Northern Command and the Japanese decide to take Townsville.

Now, either they are going to take PM first or be riskier and and just go directly for Townsville.

The second scenario, if Townsville falls you have 7th ID, 3rd ID, New Guinea Force in PM and 32nd ID, 41st ID, 6th ID, 1st Mar Div, 2nd Mar Div and about 5 Armor Bns... within the first 6 months, which would still give you a month remaining before Jan 1 43 in which to use these forces to recapture Townsville. If they bypass PM all of these will be available. 24 RCTs plus armor support to take out 10-12 Japanese Regiments. Sounds like it will work.

However, they might try to take PM first in which case you have 3 divisions in PM. New Guinea Force, 7th ID and 3rd ID. If they capture the base you are going to be in big trouble in Australia, however with this amount of force I haven't lost PM in a game yet and I still contend that you can hold PM indefinitely.

[mogami]

Originally posted by Snigbert
Alright, let's say you leave Townsville and parts of Australia undefended so you can reinforce Port Moresby. All you have there is one regiment of Northern Command and the Japanese decide to take Townsville.

Now, either they are going to take PM first or be riskier and and just go directly for Townsville.

The second scenario, if Townsville falls you have 7th ID, 3rd ID, New Guinea Force in PM and 32nd ID, 41st ID, 6th ID, 1st Mar Div, 2nd Mar Div and about 5 Armor Bns... within the first 6 months, which would still give you a month remaining before Jan 1 43 in which to use these forces to recapture Townsville. If they bypass PM all of these will be available. 24 RCTs plus armor support to take out 10-12 Japanese Regiments. Sounds like it will work.

However, they might try to take PM first in which case you have 3 divisions in PM. New Guinea Force, 7th ID and 3rd ID. If they capture the base you are going to be in big trouble in Australia, however with this amount of force I haven't lost PM in a game yet and I still contend that you can hold PM indefinitely.

Hi, PM will be gone long before you can move 3 Divisions there (most Japs capture PM late May early June. The 3rd Aus Div has not even arrived on map. The only SOPAC division is the Americal and you need it to hold Noumea.

Who gives you so much time (I mean what are they doing instead?) There is no question whether Japan can capture PM and one of the Auto victory bases if they can move the troops (They have the troops)

Lets start a game. You win if you can get 9 Bde/RCT to PM before I capture it.

[Snigbert]

Lets start a game. You win if you can get 9 Bde/RCT to PM before I capture it.

I would be overloaded, but I want to try it anyway ;P

In the three games I am playing as Allies at the moment, none of them have captured PM in the May/June time frame...evidently it is the issue of moving troops. I've had CVs and surface ships which could threaten their movement in all three games. In the one game where my opponent did manage to land at PM in August, it is too late for him to take it.

Are you playing a lot of people where you defeat their Carrier forces soundly enough that they are no threat to your transports going after PM so early in the game?

[mogami]

Originally posted by Snigbert
Lets start a game. You win if you can get 9 Bde/RCT to PM before I capture it.

I would be overloaded, but I want to try it anyway ;P

In the three games I am playing as Allies at the moment, none of them have captured PM in the May/June time frame...evidently it is the issue of moving troops. I've had CVs and surface ships which could threaten their movement in all three games. In the one game where my opponent did manage to land at PM in August, it is too late for him to take it.

Are you playing a lot of people where you defeat their Carrier forces soundly enough that they are no threat to your transports going after PM so early in the game?

Hi, Stop teasing me. (LOL the USN prevents IJN from moving to PM) I dream of finding the Lexington and Yorktown on the route to Port Moresby. (depending on the varible reinforcement schdule (it can kill the Japanese in scenario 17) The IJN can send 4-6 CV and 1-3 CVL out while the USN has only the 2 it starts with. Both need AA upgrades (as do all the escorts) and the fighter groups are undersized. In scenario 19 you can "Forget about it" The IJN will send at least 6 CV before the end of June. (The USN might have 4 CV by then and this is where I think the USN should fight. But only if they sent Lexington and Yorktown back to PH on turn 1 (there is a 38 day (+- 2-4 days) turn around.
making Lex and York return about the same time Enterprise and Hornet show up. (and all the CA/DD sent back on turn 1 give good AA escorts)
But the Allies will only have 4-5 Bde on PM at most (Sometimes I let them move unopposed to PM) 5x115=575 combat factors plus
another 50 in other units 625 total. This means I only need to bring 9 of the 12 Rgts (and a few engineers) They don't even all have to land at once. (get 4 ashore and then its over)

[Snigbert]

Hi, Stop teasing me. (LOL the USN prevents IJN from moving to PM) I dream of finding the Lexington and Yorktown on the route to Port Moresby. (depending on the varible reinforcement schdule (it can kill the Japanese in scenario 17) The IJN can send 4-6 CV and 1-3 CVL out while the USN has only the 2 it starts with. Both need AA upgrades (as do all the escorts) and the fighter groups are undersized. In scenario 19 you can "Forget about it" The IJN will send at least 6 CV before the end of June. (The USN might have 4 CV by then and this is where I think the USN should fight. But only if they sent Lexington and Yorktown back to PH on turn 1 (there is a 38 day (+- 2-4 days) turn around.

What I often do is, send the Lex and York on a sortie to intercept a tf on its way to PM in the first week of May. If I dont get in a Coral Sea (at which point there will only be 2 IJN CV and 1 CVL) I return them to Noumea and send them to PH for refit. Then in mid June I get 4-5 CVs back and am ready to roll again. If you are smart you attack PM in the last week of May or first week of June (which you have obviously figured out)

[Philwd]

Hi Snigbert,

In the three games I am playing as Allies at the moment, none of them have captured PM in the May/June time frame...evidently it is the issue of moving troops.

If you are playing with highly variable reinforcements your opponents may have not gotten the troops yet. In my current game I didn't get the 2nd and 38th IJA until ~ turn 55( I was facing a full division of troops so I needed both). I took PM 7/5(it takes a lloonngg time to get troops from Truk to PM). Because of the late troops I may have already lost.

Quark